The problem with the new C&P improvements

[Gunnet]

I don't gank ships weaker than mine. Reaching a bit are we?
I gain nothing killing small trade ships.

I'm only interested in those that will offer a challenge.

Unless I'm seeking cargo and they fail to comply of course..

Great. All the players who want to fight can fly large ships with PvP builds. They'll be able to fight each other on even ground, and won't mind the karma system stopping them from attacking PvE ships.

Might need equip hatch breakers and get good at shooting out drives or using ion mines for that last bit though.

 

[smiths121]

Yeah, new C&P improvements, all nice.

But this is all extremly easy to abuse against other players. Dishonorable PVPers who will interdict you asking for a duel, but turn crimes ON when they start losing, or people who lure you into shooting first. You will become wanted and all of these C&P improvements will punish YOU even though you're not the one who started a fight. We've also seen fights where the enemy wing had crimes OFF but they had a healer with them who had crimes ON. Shooting the healer made you wanted, even though they started the fight and all of them were wanted except the healer.


There has to be a clear way of telling who has crimes ON and who has them OFF. This way we can also tell who's looking for a fight and thus not waste time on PVEers. The option should be locked during fights to prevent switching and luring too.[alien]

Very good point OP - this has come up before (hey you probably raised it . The point I would like to make is "Report Crimes" is not the same as "I am up for PvP", but rather a clue one way or another. I normally turn off if I have illegal goods aboard, whether I am up for a fight or not.

Simon

 

[lenna]

No, that is utterly pointless.

Actually, I have found having the option to turn it off pointless.

MAY AS WELL CALL IT ELITE: EURO TRUCKER

Or Elite : Pewpewpew?

Let's not make too much about the name of ED... it is not called what it is called because of the level of difficulty in-game (PvP or otherwise) nor the nature of activities players engage in, everyone should know this by now.

Please give me an example in science fiction where outlaws would be able to dock at civilized stations or to engage in murder in well-settled systems, like Sol or Alioth, with no penalty or bounty.

I'll wait.

Star Wars IV : A New Hope - Han Solo killing Greedo in the bar on Tatooine (which could be considered well-settled) and the Imperials collaborate with some criminals (Jabba the hut and Lando Calrisian in Starwars V : The Empire Strikes Back).

I think the coming C&P changes should help bring PvP into line with the kind of levels of PvP that FD originally intended for ED.

 

[RagingxPenguin]

Great. All the players who want to fight can fly large ships with PvP builds. They'll be able to fight each other on even ground, and won't mind the karma system stopping them from attacking PvE ships.

Might need equip hatch breakers and get good at shooting out drives or using ion mines for that last bit though.

That's my issue though. If we PvP against large ships and suddenly its only low tier players around. Ill switch to a smaller ship to keep an even play field.
But if I die. I'm paying a huge rebuy because I was trying to keep things on even keel.
So I'm actively trying to NOT gank but still get kicked in the nuts.

Not an issue. My super pen rails will ruin their day in short order

 

[lenna]

Fett, Boba. Star Wars. Last seen docking in the heart of Coruscant's wealthiest district. Also one of Kuat Drive Yards' most favoured customers.

Boba Fett was a bounty hunter, not a criminal/outlaw in the truest sense of the term.

 

[Gunnet]

That's my issue though. If we PvP against large ships and suddenly its only low tier players around. Ill switch to a smaller ship to keep an even play field.
But if I die. I'm paying a huge rebuy because I was trying to keep things on even keel.
So I'm actively trying to NOT gank but still get kicked in the nuts.

Not an issue. My super pen rails will ruin their day in short order

Both players can turn off crime reporting. If the other player doesn't want to, then you're playing as a criminal and we come back around to what I said before about actions having consequences.

 

[Blasphemous One]

Deleted

 

[RagingxPenguin]

Both players can turn off crime reporting. If the other player doesn't want to, then you're playing as a criminal and we come back around to what I said before about actions having consequences.

The game can't revolve around that. Its supposed to be dangerous, Braben himself said that not even 10 seconds after what you have tagged in your signature.

The whole concept of "consensual PvP" staggers me. I get people not greifing but if I come after your FDL in my FDL whats the problem?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Dishonorable PVPers who will interdict you asking for a duel, but turn crimes ON when they start losing,

Then block them so are unlikely to see them again. They do it to enough people, and Open will start feeling like Solo for them.

 

[danubezoe]

Or save FD programing time for important stuff and just step next door to a anarchy.

This. If it is too difficult to jump to the next system just don't bother.

 

[Gunnet]

The game can't revolve around that. Its supposed to be dangerous, Braben himself said that not even 10 seconds after what you have tagged in your signature.

The whole concept of "consensual PvP" staggers me. I get people not greifing but if I come after your FDL in my FDL whats the problem?

How does there being serious in-game consequences for attacking and destroying clean ships make the game less dangerous? It's fine for you to go after an FDL in an equivalent FDL, but if it's "murder" then the authorities are going to come after you for the crime.

The "consensual PvP" thing is for the benefit of those who want an "out of game" duel that doesn't affect their character's status. It would be more realistic if you couldn't disable crimes, but Frontier are trying to accommodate everybody.

I'm afraid the game absolutely does revolve around having a believable galaxy which works in a believable way.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

This. If it is too difficult to jump to the next system just don't bother.

I don't want to speak for EarthUltimatum, but will just throw out there that such a "duel" type system could really limit people's gameplay, and frankly would add ridiculous gameyness to Elite Open play.

If there are players or groups opposed to each other, policing ones own space could lead to financial ruin should known targets be engaged and destroyed in a player group's non-anarchy space.

What I find funny about much of the discussion is a PvP player is asking for a small feature to facilitate mutual PvP without running afoul of the C&P system, and yet people are opposed to that. I don't understand why that is.

 

[bigity]

How does there being serious in-game consequences for attacking and destroying clean ships make the game less dangerous? It's fine for you to go after an FDL in an equivalent FDL, but if it's "murder" then the authorities are going to come after you for the crime.

The "consensual PvP" thing is for the benefit of those who want an "out of game" duel that doesn't affect their character's status. It would be more realistic if you couldn't disable crimes, but Frontier are trying to accommodate everybody.

I'm afraid the game absolutely does revolve around having a believable galaxy which works in a believable way.

Bwahahaha.

 

[lenna]

The game can't revolve around that. Its supposed to be dangerous, Braben himself said that not even 10 seconds after what you have tagged in your signature.

The whole concept of "consensual PvP" staggers me. I get people not greifing but if I come after your FDL in my FDL whats the problem?

Gunnet is right about actions and consequences - ED was never meant to be a frag fest type game. Consensual PvP really falls into the frag-fest category of activities.

WRT players deliberately "ganking" (which is another frag-fest type activity) sufficiently weaker players (e.g. FDL going after relatively defenceless smaller ships), your days are numbered by the looks of things - Braben is also on record as saying that he did not want certain kinds of PvP behaviours, I can not recall the exact wording but I interpreted it as referring to ganking and griefing type behaviours.

Whether people can or can not turn off report crimes is largely moot, many of us would never turn it off full-stop regardless of what activities we engage in. It does not change the fundamental nature of what threats we face.

 

[Soopyyy]

The game can't revolve around that. Its supposed to be dangerous, Braben himself said that not even 10 seconds after what you have tagged in your signature.

The whole concept of "consensual PvP" staggers me. I get people not greifing but if I come after your FDL in my FDL whats the problem?

Nothing, but its an ingame crime. Crimes have (should) consequences. Usually murder is viewed very dimly by society.

That said. I believe the ability to turn crime reporting on and off, should only be possible while docked.

 

[RagingxPenguin]

How does there being serious in-game consequences for attacking and destroying clean ships make the game less dangerous? It's fine for you to go after an FDL in an equivalent FDL, but if it's "murder" then the authorities are going to come after you for the crime.

The "consensual PvP" thing is for the benefit of those who want an "out of game" duel that doesn't affect their character's status. It would be more realistic if you couldn't disable crimes, but Frontier are trying to accommodate everybody.

I'm afraid the game absolutely does revolve around having a believable galaxy which works in a believable way.

I'm fine with the consequences. Again, my issue is the rebuy thing.

I love the idea of the global bounty. The Pilots Federation is supposed to be blood thirsty!

 

[lenna]

I'm fine with the consequences. Again, my issue is the rebuy thing.

Then consider it an alternative to a punitive account lock-out/respawn timer (c/f jail-time).

 

[RagingxPenguin]

Then consider it an alternative to a punitive account lock-out/respawn timer (c/f jail-time).

Again. I feel there was better methods that would have got this under control.

 

[Soopyyy]

Again. I feel there was better methods that would have got this under control.

Such as?

 

[bitstorm]

The game can't revolve around that. Its supposed to be dangerous, Braben himself said that not even 10 seconds after what you have tagged in your signature.

What is this even supposed to mean?

It's like you're saying the game's not dangerous unless you can attack anyone without any repercussions.