The problem with the new C&P improvements

[DukeIronHand]

Thats why they stopped informing us via DevUpdates. Every feature will be discussed to death. We are a stupid community.

Got to agree with this. This place is a dump.
But, since it apparently doesn't effect my gameplay, you guys may continue the debate...about a feature, not yet in the game and barely described, that you are unsure of how it will actually work.

 

[Riverside]

Got to agree with this. This place is a dump.
But, since it apparently doesn't effect my gameplay, you guys may continue the debate...about a feature, not yet in the game and barely described, that you are unsure of how it will actually work.

I get what you are saying, but people are concerned about how changes will affect their own playstyle, and I think it's okay to be concerned, and if anything, putting that concern to the forum to see if it is founded or no big deal is healthy too.

The issue on this thread seems to have some legitimacy, but seems to simply be an existing le that has not been addressed rather than a new problem. I also don't think it's a bid geal given the relatively small step of going to an Anarchy system solves all the issues with relatively little disruption.

When the 2.1 update was released I would have been pretty happy if my concerns were as easily addressed.


If someone is concerned & exasperated, shouting 'GROW UP' (or git gud) really doesn't help. Stay with them & keep reminding them that the problem can be overcome, and help direct their attention to solutions rather than focussing on the problem.

I do sometimes wish this forum was a better place for entertaining & constructive debate, but consider for a moment how much mod intervention has been required on this thread, compared to others.

 

[lenna]

Ha ha. Brilliant.

So there is no issue here then. Is there a way to add a thread to an ignore list I wonder?

Towards the top of the page... there is a Thread Tools button/menu, in there is an ignore thread option.

[EDIT]Beaten to it [/EDIT]

 

[DukeIronHand]

I get what you are saying, but people are concerned about how changes will affect their own playstyle, and I think it's okay to be concerned, and if anything, putting that concern to the forum to see if it is founded or no big deal is healthy too.

The issue on this thread seems to have some legitimacy, but seems to simply be an existing le that has not been addressed rather than a new problem. I also don't think it's a bid geal given the relatively small step of going to an Anarchy system solves all the issues with relatively little disruption.

When the 2.1 update was released I would have been pretty happy if my concerns were as easily addressed.


If someone is concerned & exasperated, shouting 'GROW UP' (or git gud) really doesn't help. Stay with them & keep reminding them that the problem can be overcome, and help direct their attention to solutions rather than focussing on the problem.

I do sometimes wish this forum was a better place for entertaining & constructive debate, but consider for a moment how much mod intervention has been required on this thread, compared to others.

I hear you Cmdr. I get people are bored but all this vitriol and angst should at least be saved for the upcoming beta test.
But to expect everyone to be reasonable, by my standard of "reasonableness", is of course impossible.
Just have to wonder how ED would have turned out, right now, with all this Dev time spent on a Solo game?
Ah well...it's a big Galaxy. Hopefully some balance for all can be found.

 

[Truesilver]

The OP's two proposals concerning the Report Crimes toggle are not premature. As others have said, they are already functional issues.

The relevance of improved C&P is merely that it heightens the importance of addressing these issues.

We don't need to know the final details of improved C&P to ask that these issues be addressed. It's relevant to the urgency, of course, I accept, but not to the principle.

I for example would like these proposals to be implemented even if C&P never got any improvements.

 

[Riverside]

I hear you Cmdr. I get people are bored but all this vitriol and angst should at least be saved for the upcoming beta test.
But to expect everyone to be reasonable, by my standard of "reasonableness", is of course impossible.
Just have to wonder how ED would have turned out, right now, with all this Dev time spent on a Solo game?
Ah well...

I was happy with the payouts etc in 1.0 (300cr per kill in a CZ etc), I thought the solo experience was a good one. Every re-balance seems to have made the game a little less colourful, a little more restrictive, but with extra content we still have more gameplay overall. The Solo experience is still good but for me the extra little thrill of Open only adds to it.


I try to read the intent of what people say, and try to ignore the way in which it is said. I have more bad days than good, I would hope others might give me that leeway on my bad days, as I try to on theirs.

What's frustrated me more than anything else over the past few days is the number of 'what's this all about?' posts throughout this & other threads. Having a concern & not knowing what to do is one thing, but if you can't be bothered to do a little research I have little motivation to do the legwork for them. Fortunately there are more patient people than me who do help.

 

[Riverside]

The OP's two proposals concerning the Report Crimes toggle are not premature. As others have said, they are already functional issues.

The relevance of improved C&P is merely that it heightens the importance of addressing these issues.

We don't need to know the final details of improved C&P to ask that these issues be addressed. It's relevant to the urgency, of course, I accept, but not to the principle.

I for example would like these proposals to be implemented even if C&P never got any improvements.

Yes, and I can see that you make a good case for your argument in the suggestions forum. I'm not in favour of it, but otoh I'm not going to rage quit if you get your idea implemented

 

[MadDogMurdock]

I hear you Cmdr. I get people are bored but all this vitriol and angst should at least be saved for the upcoming beta test.
But to expect everyone to be reasonable, by my standard of "reasonableness", is of course impossible.
Just have to wonder how ED would have turned out, right now, with all this Dev time spent on a Solo game?
Ah well...it's a big Galaxy. Hopefully some balance for all can be found.

Experience suggests that FD don't change much based on Beta feedback and then you wait a long time to see any update.
Getting in ahead of time is a better bet but we don't have a real proposal to give feedback on so we're all guessing.

 

[Martian Successor]

Who had jobs, who got paid, who worked for governments and clients. All of which do not exist in this game. None of which will exist in this game until their is a crime to commit. You cant have crime and no punishment.

So your Boba Fett analogy wont work until you actually get paid for your work and you actually take a risk. Also example named 1 bounty hunter. Just one. If only one person was doing this in the game no one would care. If you have a population 300 to 1000 people in a population of less than 5000 in open are doing it, well then thats different.

A lone bounty hunter is not the issue, but many dozens of murder hobos were. No longer it seems.

Please read the post I was replying to....

Or Elite : Pewpewpew? Please give me an example in science fiction where outlaws would be able to dock at civilized stations or to engage in murder in well-settled systems, like Sol or Alioth, with no penalty or bounty.

I'll wait.

I gave him an example from science fiction as he requested. Nothing to do with how Elite works.

 

[DukeIronHand]

Experience suggests that FD don't change much based on Beta feedback and then you wait a long time to see any update.
Getting in ahead of time is a better bet but we don't have a real proposal to give feedback on so we're all guessing.

If true - that they don't pay attention to beta feedback (which I don't believe straight up and think it is more complicated then that) - then they sure as heck ain't paying attention now.

But its a Open forum so debate and suggest away. No one gets hurt here (except my head once in a while) but I strongly suspect if we had a different enviorment here we would see a lot more Dev interaction and feedback. As this place stands I wouldn't come here either if I were them. No matter what they do or say it's starts a "rage" thread.

 

[Riverside]

I gave him an example from science fiction as he requested. Nothing to do with how Elite works.

Your examples of Bobba Fett & Han Solo bring up an interesting point about Empire vs Federation, or powerplay. Unlike piracy (which ganking can use as a ruse) it is possible to be hated by one side but respected by another.

Bobba would be arrested or shot if he were to dock at a rebel base, as Han Solo would be in Empire controlled space.

I don't think it's pertinent to this thread though.

 

[LeoBartlet]

Just a random though im gonna throw out before I pass out from exhaustion.

How about ship rebuy insurance being tied to reputation, The worse the rep the less insurance you get.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

If true - that they don't pay attention to beta feedback (which I don't believe straight up and think it is more complicated then that) - then they sure as heck ain't paying attention now.

But its a Open forum so debate and suggest away. No one gets hurt here (except my head once in a while) but I strongly suspect if we had a different enviorment here we would see a lot more Dev interaction and feedback. As this place stands I wouldn't come here either if I were them. No matter what they do or say it's starts a "rage" thread.

I didn't say they weren't paying attention to Beta feedback but I can't think of a single significant change to a gameplay mechanic from Beta to Update.
As opposed to the change made to Ship Transfer prior to initial implementation due to significant feedback on the proposal.
The key there though is that the feedback was requested by FD based on a concrete proposal made by them.
You're right that FD are very unlikely to engage with random threads based on what isn't much more than speculation.

If only there was a dedicated forum to enable FD to engage with an interested set of players on proposed gameplay mechanisms

 

[Luniticisi]

After reading all of these types of threads one thing sticks in my mind and that is ..

Just think of the poor souls who don't frequent the forums or streams - the day 2.4 comes in and they decide that after a lengthy killing spree in their A-rated Cutter, they are going to commit suicidewinder ... the shock they are going to get!

The forums are going to go nuts with .. "Why is my Sidewinder rebuy a billion credits!"

It's gonna be a popcorn fun day I tell ya !

 

[iFred]

After reading all of these types of threads one thing sticks in my mind and that is ..

Just think of the poor souls who don't frequent the forums or streams - the day 2.4 comes in and they decide that after a lengthy killing spree in their A-rated Cutter, they are going to commit suicidewinder ... the shock they are going to get!

The forums are going to go nuts with .. "Why is my Sidewinder rebuy a billion credits!"

It's gonna be a popcorn fun day I tell ya !

Should be worth a galactic roundcall first

 

[Deleted member 115407]

After reading all of these types of threads one thing sticks in my mind and that is ..

Just think of the poor souls who don't frequent the forums or streams - the day 2.4 comes in and they decide that after a lengthy killing spree in their A-rated Cutter, they are going to commit suicidewinder ... the shock they are going to get!

The forums are going to go nuts with .. "Why is my Sidewinder rebuy a billion credits!"

It's gonna be a popcorn fun day I tell ya !

he he... it's gonna be juicy

 

[Blaize Meduenin]

Did you vote for instant module and ship and module transport, or delayed. And did you complain that the changes needed to happen before the developer did anything, or after. I really hope you said the same thing for that. Because it'd be ridiculously ironic if you are saying this on the back of doing exactly that.

Asking for a friend.

I wasn't playing or monitoring the forums then so I didn't hear say or do anything. I also cant say if I would or not since I dont know what was said, in what detail or when either.

However with no details, as is the case here, at most I would speculate how it might be done, expressed fears / doubts etc I wouldn't be screaming in a 35 page thread about how broken it was when i didn't know the specifics on just the strength of an undetailed vocal announcement only.

 

[kofeyh]

After reading all of these types of threads one thing sticks in my mind and that is ..

Just think of the poor souls who don't frequent the forums or streams - the day 2.4 comes in and they decide that after a lengthy killing spree in their A-rated Cutter, they are going to commit suicidewinder ... the shock they are going to get!

The forums are going to go nuts with .. "Why is my Sidewinder rebuy a billion credits!"

It's gonna be a popcorn fun day I tell ya !

Just wait until the first person works out they can cause another player to wear a huge bounty cost by flying in front of people in a RES site, to trigger a bounty and then suicide on cops. Which then follows the originator of that friendly fire across the entire galaxy. They can't go anywhere, without that bounty following them.

Should make combat CGs fascinating. And people complain about cops flying in the way! lol. Ahh well. Nothing is perfect, right?

But you are right. I'm sure only the "bad people" will end up wearing the costs and this couldn't possibly have unintended consequences. Just like speeding in stations, right? Oh.

 

[DaveB]

10: Trolls find a way to be trolls.
20: FD find a way to stop them, spank them or both.
30: GOTO 10

 

[Kaocraft]

Just read the OP - the first post in this thread.

The other 26 pages are responses from a parallel universe which idk how leaked into ours. But basically the OP in the parallel universe was proposing to do something awful and, my word, he got his. Thankfully our rights were defended.

Judas H ...

This. The amount of vitriolic dogpiling directed towards the OP, for seemingly no reason at all, has gone way past shameful and is now firmly in the realm of the surreal. I don't know what universe we're in anymore. This isn't really an issue that's near and dear to my heart, but: OP I feel for you.