Star Citizen Thread v6

[Noctrach]

One of the last ATVs showed footage of a 6wheel rover, all in-editor of course ran pretty slick but on a textured landscape, no sign of the famous procgen surface.

I don't see any proof of this being or not being one of their procgen surfaces tbh, procedural textures are one of the easier things about procgenning a planet, so we'll just have to wait and see.

The mission giver in today's ATV seems to have lost a few thousand "fidelitys"

Now you're being overly negative imo. The new mission giver has much better texture quality and the lighting in the scene is visibly improved, whereas the model itself didn't change a bit. Clear net improvement overall.
If I'd have any criticism, it's that despite all their mocap, the animations still reside firmly in the deep end of Uncanny Valley.

Let's be honest, if they manage to get this to run at decent framerates in the online universe version of the game, then it's graphically quite a step beyond any MMO I've seen.
That would be my real worry though... Is this bar going to be instanced? Is this animation going to be clientsided? Will you have to wait for a player to end this 2-minute talk before you can pick up the mission? Is it first-come first serve?
So many unanswered questions with regards to the actual gameplay involved.

I hope SQ42 will look better though, this is nothing stellar compared to contemporary single-player game mocap.

Seriously, something about their blinking animations really hits all the wrong nerves for me

 

[Rolan]

Star Citizen: Around the Verse - Engine Trails and VFX Particle Effects

Spoiler

[video=youtube_share;p696daOap78]https://youtu.be/p696daOap78[/video]

TLDR

Spoiler

Studio Update
Austin
Design

• new pass on the Price Fixer Tool to ensure all items fall within the pricing balance of the game in line with the most recent design pass
• doing an additional pass on mission rewards, insurance prices, and respawn timers
• setting up the shop inventories utilising the new shop tech from LA Engineering
• getting NPCs into the main hub areas of our PU landing zones, starting with Grim Hex
• getting mission giver Miles Eckhart into the game has required a lot of collaboration:
  • Useables created the tech that allows us to link extraneous objects to other useables and still register items properly
  • Missions System provided the ability to find “Eckhart” tagged missions, determine availability and pass to the player’s mission log
  • AI and FPS a “Feather Blending” technique to blend between useable object animations and the conversation animations
  • Subsumption tech and programming facilitating all of this through tools and game code

Art

• Josh Coons has been finishing the LODs and damage pass for the Cutlass Black; tweaks to the cockpit and rotating nacelles
• Chris Smith has been working on the Xi’an Nox from beginning to end (and the vanity shots beyond)

Server Engineering

• working with DevOps to integrate and test Diffusion in a QA environment
• working with Gameplay Engineering to show how to utilise Diffusion’s features

PU Animation

• started on the NPC useables for counters including working with shopkeepers and bartenders
• set up a quick mocap shoot in the office to capture a few missing transition elements
• getting the useable for the bar stool up and running
• finished the Carry System animations for a standard sized box: you can now pick one up and walk around with it

Ship Animation

• wrapping up setting up the standard for the cockpit experience; polishing and creating new improved animations
• working to provide the same level of interaction for the manned turrets that you have in the cockpit

DevOps

• adding more hardware and increasing network capacity to handle the necessary increase in build activity

LiveOps

• completed the build out of the latest server side expansion, supporting the latest rev of shopping and Subsumption

QA

• testing new features and preparing for 3.0: weapons, moons, Levski, missions, mobiGlas interface and apps, and ships
• stability and performance has been a major focus
• Squadron 42 Testing has been working closely with the rest of QA new tech = new bugs that affect both
• continued providing additional support for the animation team
• normal engine and editor testing has kicked into high gear as a surge of new tools and tech from developers

Player Relations

• continue to prepare for upcoming 3.0 and can’t wait to reveal the new player experience
• will be adding to the Evocati ranks in the coming weeks

Turbulent

• Spectrum Update 0.3.6A has been moved to the PTU for regression testing, this is mainly for testing the backend changes that have been made.
• 0.3.6 Will feature forum editing which enables drafts to be created by users so that they can post something they’ve typed earlier, later if desired.
  • They’ve also added support for inline images, styling links, and more.
  • Custom roles will come with 0.3.6 that gives better control of permissions within orgs and roles can be added via profiles with a simple click.
  • Mini-profiles are getting updated to show post count and replies again. They’ve also added Karma similar to the Reddit system.
• More work has gone into voice, specifically the backend and how data channels will be handled by the server
• Turbulents “Panic” crash reporting system has now been integrated to work with the games crash reports to enable better logging of crashes for developers and allows for priorities to be set and pushed to QA with the simple, but robust UI that Panic offers.
• The welcome to SC website revamp is ongoing and is in full coding mode. Most of the design work is finished and they’re at the stage of building it at this time. There’s nothing to show for yet, but hopefully in the near future you will see it.

Behind the Scenes: Engine Trails and VFX

• VFX's challenge is maintaining fidelity and quality that scales with distance and yet still runs efficiently
• Engine trails, entry and exit effects for atmosphere, as well as contrails when moving upon the planet at speed in vehicles in game were desired by Chris, but needed new tech
• The old system was a linear beast that became a real monster as it was built upon repeatedly
• Involving graphics programmers along with the VFX artists were needed to solve this problems
• The key solution was in generating a GPU particle system that was organized around how a modern PC works and reducing the data upload to the CPU
• This was done via the use of deterministic and nondeterministic states enabling faster computation via less workload
• The code written is very generic enabling the use of all kinds of particles and adjustment on the fly via DATAForge by the VFX artists
• Upon completion this will form the foundation for setting up new effects
• An example of finished code includes allowing particles to be affected as a ship passes through a particle effect and transforms it by its shape
• Even the moons in 3.0 will have different levels of atmospheres providing very nice subtle effects
• Engine trails will provide a nice reference for those flying together as well a visceral feeling with combat
• So more effects, better effects and more efficient use of PC resources are the end result when compared to the old system all of which the VFX artists find very exciting

Source: https://relay.sc/transcript/around-the-verse-engine-trails-and-vfx-particles

P.D.- Goodnight guys!

 

[Maruun]

I just hope they can scale it and we don't end up with just he one guy running through the same animation

I cant wait to see fidelity breaking because of content locust lining up and and bugging out the single missiongiver in the game.
or everytime a players talk to him another clone sits on the same table talking and overlapping with the one before creating 100 missiongivers on the spot waving hands in a wave creating a strange trail of arms and hands. While crashing everything because of FPS hitting rock bottom.

I am sure they will be able to create a lot of lulzbuckets for this thread to come.
I waited for SC to prove me wrong for 3 years now my expectations are on bedrock the good thing it can only go up at this point.

 

[Asp Explorer]

I cant wait to see fidelity breaking because of content locust lining up and and bugging out the single missiongiver in the game

It's going to be glorious

Probably before he's given out a single mission, he'll be janked out of position and glitched through the nearest wall that leads to deep space, loaded into a Freelancer and blocked off by as many small-cargo things, Noxs, Argos and Grab Eat vending machines as possible.

If that can't happen, then their whole Item 2.0, Entity Individuality, Player Reaction and Full Interactive Physics Grids are a complete nonsense.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Star Citizen: Around the Verse - Engine Trails and VFX Particle Effects

Spoiler

https://youtu.be/p696daOap78

TLDR

Spoiler

Studio Update
Austin
Design

• new pass on the Price Fixer Tool to ensure all items fall within the pricing balance of the game in line with the most recent design pass
• doing an additional pass on mission rewards, insurance prices, and respawn timers
• setting up the shop inventories utilising the new shop tech from LA Engineering
• getting NPCs into the main hub areas of our PU landing zones, starting with Grim Hex
• getting mission giver Miles Eckhart into the game has required a lot of collaboration:
  • Useables created the tech that allows us to link extraneous objects to other useables and still register items properly
  • Missions System provided the ability to find “Eckhart” tagged missions, determine availability and pass to the player’s mission log
  • AI and FPS a “Feather Blending” technique to blend between useable object animations and the conversation animations
  • Subsumption tech and programming facilitating all of this through tools and game code

Art

• Josh Coons has been finishing the LODs and damage pass for the Cutlass Black; tweaks to the cockpit and rotating nacelles
• Chris Smith has been working on the Xi’an Nox from beginning to end (and the vanity shots beyond)

Server Engineering

• working with DevOps to integrate and test Diffusion in a QA environment
• working with Gameplay Engineering to show how to utilise Diffusion’s features

PU Animation

• started on the NPC useables for counters including working with shopkeepers and bartenders
• set up a quick mocap shoot in the office to capture a few missing transition elements
• getting the useable for the bar stool up and running
• finished the Carry System animations for a standard sized box: you can now pick one up and walk around with it

Ship Animation

• wrapping up setting up the standard for the cockpit experience; polishing and creating new improved animations
• working to provide the same level of interaction for the manned turrets that you have in the cockpit

DevOps

• adding more hardware and increasing network capacity to handle the necessary increase in build activity

LiveOps

• completed the build out of the latest server side expansion, supporting the latest rev of shopping and Subsumption

QA

• testing new features and preparing for 3.0: weapons, moons, Levski, missions, mobiGlas interface and apps, and ships
• stability and performance has been a major focus
• Squadron 42 Testing has been working closely with the rest of QA new tech = new bugs that affect both
• continued providing additional support for the animation team
• normal engine and editor testing has kicked into high gear as a surge of new tools and tech from developers

Player Relations

• continue to prepare for upcoming 3.0 and can’t wait to reveal the new player experience
• will be adding to the Evocati ranks in the coming weeks

Turbulent

• Spectrum Update 0.3.6A has been moved to the PTU for regression testing, this is mainly for testing the backend changes that have been made.
• 0.3.6 Will feature forum editing which enables drafts to be created by users so that they can post something they’ve typed earlier, later if desired.
  • They’ve also added support for inline images, styling links, and more.
  • Custom roles will come with 0.3.6 that gives better control of permissions within orgs and roles can be added via profiles with a simple click.
  • Mini-profiles are getting updated to show post count and replies again. They’ve also added Karma similar to the Reddit system.
• More work has gone into voice, specifically the backend and how data channels will be handled by the server
• Turbulents “Panic” crash reporting system has now been integrated to work with the games crash reports to enable better logging of crashes for developers and allows for priorities to be set and pushed to QA with the simple, but robust UI that Panic offers.
• The welcome to SC website revamp is ongoing and is in full coding mode. Most of the design work is finished and they’re at the stage of building it at this time. There’s nothing to show for yet, but hopefully in the near future you will see it.

Behind the Scenes: Engine Trails and VFX

• VFX's challenge is maintaining fidelity and quality that scales with distance and yet still runs efficiently
• Engine trails, entry and exit effects for atmosphere, as well as contrails when moving upon the planet at speed in vehicles in game were desired by Chris, but needed new tech
• The old system was a linear beast that became a real monster as it was built upon repeatedly
• Involving graphics programmers along with the VFX artists were needed to solve this problems
• The key solution was in generating a GPU particle system that was organized around how a modern PC works and reducing the data upload to the CPU
• This was done via the use of deterministic and nondeterministic states enabling faster computation via less workload
• The code written is very generic enabling the use of all kinds of particles and adjustment on the fly via DATAForge by the VFX artists
• Upon completion this will form the foundation for setting up new effects
• An example of finished code includes allowing particles to be affected as a ship passes through a particle effect and transforms it by its shape
• Even the moons in 3.0 will have different levels of atmospheres providing very nice subtle effects
• Engine trails will provide a nice reference for those flying together as well a visceral feeling with combat
• So more effects, better effects and more efficient use of PC resources are the end result when compared to the old system all of which the VFX artists find very exciting

Source: https://relay.sc/transcript/around-the-verse-engine-trails-and-vfx-particles

P.D.- Goodnight guys!

As usual, thanks Rolan.

I have a le though. I don't see a single item there really related to that mythical thing called gameplay. Ok, bit about mission giver and missions, but what about missions, or gameplay loops? Seems largely like more fluff items.

 

[Cotic]

As usual, thanks Rolan.

I have a le though. I don't see a single item there really related to that mythical thing called gameplay. Ok, bit about mission giver and missions, but what about missions, or gameplay loops? Seems largely like more fluff items.

Just watched a talk/review of the alpha and the guy describes things as heaven for train ship collectors. When you think of SC within those terms they don't need gameplay, just some pretty little track environments to drive fly their trains ships around in.

Video in question

Spoiler

[video=youtube;JHQ3L_WjR9c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHQ3L_WjR9c[/video]

 

[ZeeWolf]

Now you're being overly negative imo. The new mission giver has much better texture quality and the lighting in the scene is visibly improved, whereas the model itself didn't change a bit. Clear net improvement overall.
If I'd have any criticism, it's that despite all their mocap, the animations still reside firmly in the deep end of Uncanny Valley.

Must just be me then. To me he looks flatter and less shiny (before his bald head reflects his surroundings) and he's clipping the table a bit, whatever has happened in the bar over the past year has meant he isn't allowed a clear glass for his liquid anymore. Maybe he's had too many fidelity cocktails in the past year?

Last year

New Version

 

[ZeeWolf]

Just watched a talk/review of the alpha and the guy describes things as heaven for train ship collectors. When you think of SC within those terms they don't need gameplay, just some pretty little track environments to drive fly their trains ships around in.

Video in question

Spoiler

Yes I thought that guy made an excellent fair assessment, great points. If anything he's done a better job of just selling the current state of the product for what it is rather than a pie in the sky future.

(apologies for the multi-post)

 

[Trafalgar Law]

Must just be me then. To me he looks flatter and less shiny (before his bald head reflects his surroundings) and he's clipping the table a bit, whatever has happened in the bar over the past year has meant he isn't allowed a clear glass for his liquid anymore. Maybe he's had too many fidelity cocktails in the past year?

Last year

http://i1351.photobucket.com/albums/p800/daniel_johnston2/m2_zpsd5irjrib.png

New Version

http://i1351.photobucket.com/albums/p800/daniel_johnston2/m1_zpsglvtd8t3.png

I wouldn't say the new one looks flat and his head seems to be a lot crisper than the the old one. They've clearly changed his texture as he now has fine stubble on his head rather than being completely shaved. The texture on his flight jacket is also massively improved, it actually looks like leather now.

On the other hand the clipping through the table is very poor and he seems to holding his now opaque cup rather strangely. He also feels a bit superimposed on the background because his lighting and the backgrounds lighting are clearly different (look at the shadow on the table/wall and where the characters light source appears to be coming from).

 

[ZeeWolf]

I wish they would just demo the stuff they have almost ready for putting out on consumer hardware rather than spending the time putting together "proof of concept" demonstrations and then having to re-work everything into the alpha. However you look at it, they should be in the business of making a game to go out on peoples machines - the trade show demos are marketing and the additional time and effort putting those together is cash spent on marketing - which they said they wouldn't do. Sure they can use some of the stuff like the motion capture and texture, but it's no different to the No Man's Sky videos that didn't end up in the game because things change dramatically when you have to stuff it onto dozens of different graphics cards and make it work around game logic. Also, the Citizencon demo where they had two separate atmospheric planets and a sand worm, that might as well be Peter Molyneux demonstrating Milo and Kate at this point in time, it's so far removed from what they can actually deliver right now.

They could have presented the almost completed work for this years Gamecon and released it straight afterwards.

 

[Marak]

They've clearly changed his texture as he now has fine stubble on his head rather than being completely shaved.

By the time he's in game he'll have hair like Brian May

 

[MarktJones]

Must just be me then. To me he looks flatter and less shiny (before his bald head reflects his surroundings) and he's clipping the table a bit, whatever has happened in the bar over the past year has meant he isn't allowed a clear glass for his liquid anymore. Maybe he's had too many fidelity cocktails in the past year?

Last year

http://i1351.photobucket.com/albums/p800/daniel_johnston2/m2_zpsd5irjrib.png

New Version

http://i1351.photobucket.com/albums/p800/daniel_johnston2/m1_zpsglvtd8t3.png

The new version's body is weird. He is clearly a disguised alien. LOOK AT HIS SHOULDER!

 

[Skizomeuh]

His facial expressions look slightly better though.

Alas, as always they're making a ton about little things: engine trails in this case. They talk about it as it was a tremendous challenge, a never seen before performance, and "Chris wanted trails so we gathered a dedicated team of highly specialized talents for that". Yet, no sign of this kind of effort towards ACTUAL GAMEPLAY! It's exhaustingly cringeworthy.

I don't get why they insist in overdetailling and refactor the tiniest parts wishfully thinking it'd end in a cohesive whole from itself. Due to the complexity of the task the set upon themselves, I think a more holistic approach should be the way the reach something substantial. Otherwise, they'll only progress by making the next step half the distance of the previous one.

 

[Britney]

The new version's body is weird. He is clearly a disguised alien. LOOK AT HIS SHOULDER!

The effort they are putting into that isn't mirrored in the actual results, movement and facial animations of this character look really weird. Is that the only quest giver in the game so far?

 

[ZeeWolf]

The trouble with gameplay is that it's very subjective and breakable. Once they start putting mechanics in they are open to criticism. They also have to start balancing things.

It's very subjective too. The mechanics we do have, the flight model and combat along with FPS - it's easy to compare those with other games and see where the weakness is. Isn't 3.0 supposed to have the "basic" mechanics for trading and bounty hunting and whatever? Naturally they'll be keen to highlight those as very "early" versions, this sort of MMO gameplay is very difficult to flesh out quickly because you don't know for sure how people are going to play it and what they subjectively find fun. So it'll be interesting to see how quickly they can build on any bare bones stuff they are able to put in at this stage. Also, it's difficult to imagine them putting in anything that involves progression as it puts the ship store in danger once people start wondering why they still can't upgrade anything in-game as there is more to do than just prance around like goat simulator. Also, there's that little problem of not having the critical paths for an MMO in place like a scalable game world built around whatever networking tech they need to support the illusion of many players in the same universe - dynamic super sharded fidelity instancing or whatever they are talking about these days, that's kind of fundamental and should have been in place by now IMHO.

Eye candy type features like engine trails, well that's the stuff that appears in screen shots and youtube videos isn't it? I have a hard time believing those kind of spot effects require nearly as much work as solid gameplay mechanics.

 

[GaryII]

Eye candy type features like engine trails, well that's the stuff that appears in screen shots and youtube videos isn't it? I have a hard time believing those kind of spot effects require nearly as much work as solid gameplay mechanics.

Nice graphics sells ships for them - gameplay does not...introducing new gameplay can actually hurt sales, since backers can find out that its not that great as promised...


All those new effects will overload LY engine even more, so FPS will drop even more..

 

[ZeeWolf]

Nice graphics sells ships for them - gameplay does not...introducing new gameplay can actually hurt sales, since backers can find out that its not that great as promised...


All those new effects will overload LY engine even more, so FPS will drop even more..

I wonder what brought in more "funds"? The gamescon/citizencon demonstrations last year and their subsequent concept sales, or the release of Star-Marine to actual hard drives?

 

[darkoff]

I wouldn't say the new one looks flat and his head seems to be a lot crisper than the the old one. They've clearly changed his texture as he now has fine stubble on his head rather than being completely shaved. The texture on his flight jacket is also massively improved, it actually looks like leather now.

On the other hand the clipping through the table is very poor and he seems to holding his now opaque cup rather strangely. He also feels a bit superimposed on the background because his lighting and the backgrounds lighting are clearly different (look at the shadow on the table/wall and where the characters light source appears to be coming from).

watch the mug.
Then watch the jankiness of the animation
the lighting on change on head is just removal of secondary light sources
the design of whole suit is better now. But the material itself is downgraded, feels like they removed roughness map

3.0 gamescom demo was bunch of smoke and mirror's it seems.
The atv episode just reminds me of those ubisoft downgrade video's.

10 months has passed from this
[video=youtube;NSrXsbRh6k8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSrXsbRh6k8[/video]

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Just watched a talk/review of the alpha and the guy describes things as heaven for train ship collectors. When you think of SC within those terms they don't need gameplay, just some pretty little track environments to drive fly their trains ships around in.

Video in question

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHQ3L_WjR9c

Yeah, watched it. Was very interesting to see an assessment coming from someone who is not invested in the game.

 

[ZeeWolf]

https://i.imgur.com/PsJiKux.gif
watch the mug.

Oh your not talking about his face are you?

Yeah, that's a neat trick - maybe he's some kind of street magician and they'll include a standard 'guess which cup the ball is under' mini-game to win credits?

In the original demo he swirled his drink around in the glass to show off the "physics"