2.4 Typical weaponry will be useless against Thargoids. Another design flaw?

Hopefully...

Well, hopefully the Anti-Thargoid weaponry will be just as effective against players as regular weapons are, so we won't need to worry about gankers.
 
TBH after all the updates in season 2 i am very pessimistic about anything FD can do.
What i expect: one more "tier" of powercreep, more "currencies", most likely in form of "alien materials", and "new enimies" in form of aliens, with more HP and more DPS, but with the same braindead AI.
So yes, "special weapons" seem very likely to me... simple way to level playing field once again...
Still hope that i am wrong, but not too much anymore... not enough to even bother logging into game to get back to the bubble to be able to see 2.4 when it's released...
 
Last edited:
Fear not though, whiners, I'm sure that after a month of your moaniny & complaining, FDev will buckle once again & make Thargoids no harder to kill than a Competent NPC.

It's not about whining. It's a genuine concern. Will the thargoids bring in-depth gameplay and require intelligence and skillful tactics to defeat...or will it be yet another boring gear grind?
 
It's not about whining. It's a genuine concern. Will the thargoids bring in-depth gameplay and require intelligence and skillful tactics to defeat...or will it be yet another boring gear grind?


It most certainly is about whining. The whiny grinders didn't want truly dangerous NPC's because it hurt their "credits per hour".......then they whine about how grindy the game is. Its pathetic.
 
Watching over the teaser live stream, some pictures were shown of unknown devices coming in 2.4. Some of them seem to look like deployables rather than weapons and it prompts me with some concerning questions:

Is the 2.4 going to continue the trend of splitting game content? Will it make it easier for PvPers to attack ships equipped for fighting Thargoids? Will it force players to drop every other form of progression purely for the sake of some kind of Thargoid module progress? Deployables sound a bit more interesting because it allows a ship to maintain its previously engineered configuration, but I think it would be a shame if all that work put into engineering them could not be used at all in any way. My hope would be that these deployables put a debuff on the alien ships making engineered weapons useful, and that this update will create new relationships with other mechanics that we already have.

It's often said that this game is a mile wide and inch deep. A major contributor towards this was making progression systems feel like a grind. One way of achieving that was the practice of isolating activities and mechanics from each other so that only one at a time can be played with. Some examples:
  • Waiting hours for that one particular kind of signal source when no other form of gameplay fits between, other than maybe courier missions which aren't really activities anyways.
  • Grinding for 10k merits for a week to get a 100% bounty bonus for another week, when 2 weeks of bounties without a bonus pay the same. Neither of which contribute towards super faction rep gain.
  • Waiting 4 weeks to earn a new weapon, one that's only given through Powerplay. Why?
  • PvP only being for the sake of PvP.
  • Manual trading, combat zones and mining not providing contribution towards any significant rank gain, engineering progress, and are not profitable without missions that don't add anything extra to the task itself.

I could probably make a fat list on that subject but that isn't the point. It sounds like Frontier is showing interest with revisiting core mechanics after 2.4, but I want to know if they've considered previous design flaws and taken measure to ensure 2.4 makes the game less wide and more deep. I think this is something they should be thinking about with every update they plan in the future.

Live stream reference.
[video]https://www.twitch.tv/videos/154072893?t=07m57s[/url]

I think you worry too much. And by that I am not saying any of this might not be a problem. But I have to think (not know), that the FDev's have discussed this and will do what they can to balance things. As for the elements that would miss use something like this, well is there really any way to stop them sort of booting them? Let's plan on the FDev's doing their job and then you and I can go fly and enjoy ourselves in the universe.

You never know ... it might be like laying down on an abandoned railroad track wondering if you'll get run over by a train that isn't coming ....

Chief
 
2.4 Typical weaponry will be useless against Thargoids. Another design flaw?


Or perhaps intentional to instil fear, dread? A sense of uselessness against an overpowering force?

Same thing.

Thargoids could also simply fly better

This would be a far better means to the desired end, at least if the desired end are challenging encounters, than making Thargoids play by a new set of rules.

It therefore stands to reason we might not be able to damage them

Not unless they are so alien as to be surreal. Plenty of that already in ED without having to have everyone go on an adventure to acquire the +3 vorpal limpet of bug smitification.

More advanced is one thing, but requiring weapons whose function is something other than to deliver as much energy as practical to the desired target (which is the ultimate basis for every tool of violence in the history of the universe, as far as we can tell, from the effects of enzymes and antibodies produced by microbes, to claws and fangs, to a sword edge, to a rifle bullet, to a laser or railgun) is going to seem awfully contrived.

.....and where did they say they will make them not take damage? Ineffective doesn't mean "not take damage".....that word would be Impervious. Maybe they fly so erratically that getting a fix on them will be extremely difficult, maybe they have some kind of "stealth" technology that makes it so you have to be closer in to get a target lock

If I turn off my sensors entirely, plenty of the weapons we already have are just as effective as ever and anything nimble enough to evade a hitscan attack from a platform that can rotate 40-90 degrees per second is going to make just about anything that actually has any gameplay behind it ineffective.

maybe their shields & armour can take more punishment than human ships of the same size. Maybe their own weapons & counter-measures will make it near impossible for us to get off more than a few shots. Any one or combination of these factors will make our weapons & tactics ineffective-without making their ships impervious.

Then this would beg the question of why, if we are capable of producing better weapons for use against Thargoid, haven't we produced them for use against each other?

Fear not though, whiners, I'm sure that after a month of your moaniny & complaining, FDev will buckle once again & make Thargoids no harder to kill than a Competent NPC.

I've frequently complained about the lack of challenge provided by NPCs. However, taking them as is--with the same deliberately handicapped AI--and simply requiring me to run out and obtain the proverbial silver bullet before I can defeat them, is not addressing any underlying issue.

Combat against a brain dead werewolf is no more satisfying than combat against a brain dead goblin, even if it's all but impossible to stop the former without special tools.

When Cavemen wanted to beat the hell out each other, they used the tech available - rocks and sticks. And very effective that tech was, for killing other cavemen.

If advanced aliens landed in middle of a Caveman fight, I'd expect those rocks and sticks to be ineffective against them.

Compared to Thargoids, we're the Cavemen, with weapons to match.

Its up to us to make better rocks and sticks. That won't happen overnight.

Indeed.

However, if new weapons simply show up when 2.4 drops, or after a few weekend CGs, that is happening overnight.

People in the Elite setting have been doing their level best to destroy each other for thousands of years, and a barely more existential threat in the form of Thargoids prompting such overnight advancements, or worse, advancements that only apply to Thargoids, is silly, IMO.

Upset that a computer game plays like a computer game.

Sometimes the best games are those that take themselves seriously enough to elicit a certain suspension of disbelief.

I certainly get upset when an otherwise decent piece of supposedly historical fiction ruins it's credibility with fantastic elements or needless anachronisms. I see games that are trying to depict certain worlds/settings the same way.
 
Fear not though, whiners, I'm sure that after a month of your moaniny & complaining, FDev will buckle once again & make Thargoids no harder to kill than a Competent NPC.

Gee I hope so... none of us are super duper pilots like you. Oh awwww....

Give it a rest dude you trumpet this all the time.
 
It most certainly is about whining. The whiny grinders didn't want truly dangerous NPC's because it hurt their "credits per hour".......then they whine about how grindy the game is. Its pathetic.

Well, yes, by definition, slowing down the grind makes things more grindy. That is a fact that you've found there.
 
When Cavemen wanted to beat the hell out each other, they used the tech available - rocks and sticks. And very effective that tech was, for killing other cavemen.

If advanced aliens landed in middle of a Caveman fight, I'd expect those rocks and sticks to be ineffective against them.

Compared to Thargoids, we're the Cavemen, with weapons to match.

Its up to us to make better rocks and sticks. That won't happen overnight.

What makes me curious is the logical end to this. Cavemen in that scenario have the choice of being wiped out or advancing their ability to resist but would be extremely unlikely to pull off the latter.

Once this whole thing kicks off, what will be keeping us alive? And where will the tech come from that will save us?
 
[Sarcasm]Greetings Commanders!

We here at Frontier Developments have heard your opinions and have decided to introduce a new feature.

Thargoid ships will now automatically self destruct the moment your shields drop below 90%.

Will will of course continue to monitor the situation and may raise this threshold based on player feedback. [/sarcasm]

Right on!
 
It's almost like our tech, even engineered will be useless and we'll need either the various thargoid materials at the structure sites and/or some reverse engineered Guardian tech from their ruins.

OP is being a drama queen.
 
I think we're going to need some extra devices that make today's weapons effective and some protection against hyperdictions.

So far we've only seen Thargoids in peaceful activities, we saw the damage that they can do.
But we haven't seen Thargoids shooting, fighting, as that nasty green corrosive damage is spread anyone yet knows about.

I want to follow the Braben suggestions and with the Elite community unravel all these questions, It can't be worse than 2.1? Can? Ho... well we survive that one

The Return 2.4 Announcement - Elite Dangerous
[video=youtube;PX49v8zYutI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX49v8zYutI[/video]
 
Not a design flaw. I think it makes good roleplaying sense. A very different alien species where "conventional" weaponry and defense may have little to no effect. It fits well with tropes of sci-fi often with humanity encountering an unknown possibly more advanced species, and could be a catalyst for a whole slew of galaxy changing events. I'll be interested to see how it shakes out in 2.4
 
Oh look, its another one of the drama queens who were probably responsible for the nerfing of the AI post 2.1.....'cause the NPC's were suddenly effective at shooting back. You saw "Dangerous" in the title.....didn't you?

If the NPC's are too easy for you why not run around in a stock Sidewinder instead of flashing you epeen here.......
 
Some totally irrelevant conversations going on here...

1. AI Difficulty - nothing to do with depth of the game or gear grind.

2. Lack of depth - the fact that gameplay in ED easily becomes repetitive. There are not enough unique or impactful things you can do in the universe.

3. Gear grind - doing the same things over and over either because you want the gear, content is locked behind it (corrosive resistant cargo racks) or because there is nothing else to do.

The OPs concerns are valid because FD have already shown in the past that they will implement gear grinds, rather than more in-depth gameplay.
 
If the NPC's are too easy for you why not run around in a stock Sidewinder instead of flashing you epeen here.......

Best reply in the thread! This is all too common - those who complain about whiners and easy NPCs yet they drive around in either a max'd out FdL, Connie or Cutter. Too funny... or sad.

To the OPs point that many want to side-step with OT replies: agree that yes, Thargoids will likely be simply a new grind fest. That's FDevs style for content which is create more time sinks leveraging the existing mechanics. Expect a bunch of new Engineers to (grind) unlock for these magical anti-alien weapons.
 
Oh look, its another one of the drama queens who were probably responsible for the nerfing of the AI post 2.1.....'cause the NPC's were suddenly effective at shooting back. You saw "Dangerous" in the title.....didn't you?


Look out! A Straw Man! Riding a dead horse! Smack it! Smack it again! KEEP SMACKING IT!!! KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!
 
If the NPC's are too easy for you why not run around in a stock Sidewinder instead of flashing you epeen here.......

It has nothing to do with "epeen". The fact is, for some of us there is absolutely no satisfaction to be gained from arbitrarily gimping ourselves just to try to find a sense of challenge. This is an old argument that has been made on many game forums over the years.

I agree with Marc, it really is pathetic how some people whine at the slightest hint of challenge provided by the game. I really hope that the new equipment has no engineering available, so the content can be better balanced, and anyone who can't handle it can sit in the bubble and enjoy their human cannon fodder. I'm not getting my hopes up, though.
 
It has nothing to do with "epeen". The fact is, for some of us there is absolutely no satisfaction to be gained from arbitrarily gimping ourselves just to try to find a sense of challenge. This is an old argument that has been made on many game forums over the years.

I agree with Marc, it really is pathetic how some people whine at the slightest hint of challenge provided by the game. I really hope that the new equipment has no engineering available, so the content can be better balanced, and anyone who can't handle it can sit in the bubble and enjoy their human cannon fodder. I'm not getting my hopes up, though.

It's not about E-peen, but you have to make it known that you're against difficulty adjustments despite where player skill may concentrate? If it's not about bragging about the content you can handle or locking others out as seems to be your admitted desire, why shouldn't there be adjustments. You already have a way to preserve your challenge and not using it is no more others fault than it would be yours if they weren't on par with you and content got nerfed, except you have the moment to moment choice in the matter.
 
Back
Top Bottom