Possible to have HARD elite NPCs at CNBs/HazRez/HighCZ/piratelords?

[Hellfire85]

I totally agree with the OP!

Even with guns I never used before I can take down Elite NPCs in FDLs, Condas and such stuff.

Bounty hunting get's dull after a while. I really hope the Thargoids will crank it up a notch.

 

[Spaceburger]

Maybe we should have all started in Corvettes and work our way up to the Sidey

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Okay, than used your billion Cr, engineered ship and the flying skills to survive with a couple of gold canisters in your hold in a pirate infested instance.

Done it.

 

[EddyRockSteady]

Late game with a fully engineered ship.....

There's the problem right there.

I personally have NEVER experienced a more painful endevour than attempting to unlock Engineers, never mind getting materials to engineer mods. It's an absolute waste of time, so much so that Elite has failed to matter anymore - don't log on. I cannot be asked to engineer a ship for the months it takes as I am a family man with an hour or two to spare at most each other day. Bottom-Line: I am cannon-fodder for all NPC's.

It's just not fun.

I get it, it's not FD's fault. It's just what Elite is. I am not blaming them for their eye-bleeding grind mechanics. It takes time to wade through a ten-mile wide paddle-pool. We just have to remember that it's imperative that they cater for the middle-ground and as such, cannot see them ramping up difficulty even more than what it already is, especially since the PS4 crowd have probably yet to meet the Engineers.

 

[Vlad Tepes]

A solution for more challenge could be to fix the engineered modules bug on NPCs and make them spawn with engineered stuff and special effects in relation to the player level of engineering.

Just like the NPC combat rating is tied to the player one. And hopefully give them smarter loadouts with the right tactics, for more funny and diversified situations (i find them too predictable when you have played for a long time).

I do think Fdev will improve NPCs over time though, and hopefully thargoids will force us to actually think instead of just blasting everything on sight

 

[Grisnir]

wasn't one of the 2.1 AI complains that the risk=reward was completely out of wack, like nobody is risking his fully engineered Corvette, with 15 Mio rebuy
if the Elite Conda will give you 200k credits while nearly destroying your ship?

maybe creating tougher AI that is worth the risk is the answer

 

[Stigbob]

So people pay real money for an expansion allowing them to tweak their ship, and that makes the game worse for them because there is no content for it.
I'm sure that will encourage players to buy the next expansion.

I have multiple options due to engineering, a fun nearly indestructible tank. A cool running FDL for high heat/energy alpha strike dogfighting fun. A long jumping lightwieght explorer for pratting about in the deep. A semi retired anaconda fitted for chilled out mining.

My favourite ship ATM is a speed engineered courier, only possible through horizons great fun to fly packs a punch but has to be flown well because it's a glass cannon and those asteroids come at it really fast usually from the side.

Any one of those ships would get samey and boring if it was all I used in-game, just like any other kind of self imposed grind does.

Anyone wondering about horizons should buy in just for the huge amount of grind avoiding extra options it provides.

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

The NPCs are fine where they are. They *are* much more dangerous than in ED Versions up to 2.0. I remember times at the beginning where I could wreck NPC pirate Pythons with a T7 with 4 seeker launchers. Not anymore. For the broad majority it is perfect now. For the hardcore few with ships engineered to the max you can at best create choice encounters that are completely optional, which would wreck an average player in seconds.

 

[NeilF]

+1 to the idea of "Extremely hazardous" RES sites. Something to give fully G5 rated PVE Vettes a challenge.

That's almost a contradiction in terms

You can understand the dimmer Wanted's turning up to such areas, but surely these supposedly more challenging ones by their very nature wouldn't turn up to them, forming an orderly queue, just to commit suicide?

 

[Soopyyy]

There's the problem right there.

I personally have NEVER experienced a more painful endevour than attempting to unlock Engineers, never mind getting materials to engineer mods. It's an absolute waste of time, so much so that Elite has failed to matter anymore - don't log on. I cannot be asked to engineer a ship for the months it takes as I am a family man with an hour or two to spare at most each other day. Bottom-Line: I am cannon-fodder for all NPC's.

It's just not fun.

I get it, it's not FD's fault. It's just what Elite is. I am not blaming them for their eye-bleeding grind mechanics. It takes time to wade through a ten-mile wide paddle-pool. We just have to remember that it's imperative that they cater for the middle-ground and as such, cannot see them ramping up difficulty even more than what it already is, especially since the PS4 crowd have probably yet to meet the Engineers.

Nahh, its FD's fault. The mechanics involved are hot garbage.

As for finding a challenge, I typically take a couple tonnes of cargo into a Haz-Res in my Corvette then pull a few wings. You need to fly pretty special at that point.

 

[IceFire122]

Done it.

Congratulations on beating Elite: Dangerous. Now you can wait for the next installment of the series (or the Thargoids).

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

While it's fun to change up ships and fly smaller ones, it's just avoiding the fact you've spent maybe hundreds of millions, to billions on a ship, and then spent more time learning to fly it, and even more time engineering it, to then be told you need to go back to the ship you was in at day 2.
It's not a valid solution.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

I've didn't invested hundreds of hours in learning to fly, to evade and to engineer my corvette to get threatened by a single ship.
Engaging a cop in a high security system is still a challenge that can kill you very fast.

But in my medium engineered Asp i got lately wrecked in 5 seconds by an Elite Anaconda only because i didn't payed attention for 1 second. Another close-to-rebuy situation was after i've bought another Python. Fully A-rated her and ready to engineer for special purpose. But first i wanted to get rid of the pirate following me. I had no chance against this Elite Clipper in a stock-A Python. Shields were nearly useless unengineered and popped like a soap-bubble and the military composite was at 18% after 5 seconds countdown for low-wake.
The gap between stock and engineered is HUGE and makes a complete different game suddenly!
I don't want to meet even harder ones. If i search for a challenge, i pick up my Vulture.

 

[PhanttoM]

Frankly, I think the whole "arbitrarily nerf yourself if you want a challenge" is a sign of bad game balance.

Because it translates into so many unwanted scenarios like;
- If you want a challenge, don't fly your favorite ship (if you like the big ships)
- If you want a challenge, don't use your favorite playstyle
- If you want a challenge, don't use the game mechanics (engineers)

 

[CMDR Poet Starwind]

Yes, the update where the AI was amped was more challenging, but not every CMDR enjoys combat-centric play. I think the clamor to shush the AI was slowly implemented to balance it with small tweaks.

Have you considered more PvP, as a substitute for harder AI?

 

[Godsailsaqueen]

there are adjustments to be made.

- The piloting part is sufficiently good, they can outrun and outturn you (even though it sometimes feels like cheating) but feels quite lame (going in a straight line) at the beginning. Well, it suits new players I guess.
- The aiming is HORRIBLE. And I mean, they're just too good. That's what ruins the fun - 3 eagles on you, mounted with 6 rail guns, you're in a relatively tiny cobra and they ALL HIT you EVERY TIME (eg every 1,5 seconds) no matter the DISTANCE, no matter the RELATIVE SPEED. players can't do that. What a player can't do, the AI, even elite, shouldn't do.
- Their equipment (although diverse enough) is lame. Yes to npc mods, gradually added by level. Engineers have been here for a sufficiently long time.
The difficulty is to save new players from the mayhem here.

- the worst would be the tactic part. It's the major problem. It's the thing that was nerfed as well due to complaints.
NPCs are stupid. they don't even try to mimic real behaviour anymore. From the low levels that REFUSE TO SHOOT YOU even though the'yre directly facing at you, to the SUICIDAL behaviour of all. I like to see NPCs flee. I liked it when they ran as soon as their shields were done (should have been left to the best 1/3 of them). No, FD chose to erase every progress such as this. I'd also like if NPCs could measure their odds before engaging. An adder attacking my fully turreted anaconda. Ok bro, suit yourself... it breaks something.

Make them feel more human, less bounty meat, less machine sniper.

 

[Riverside]

Frankly, I think the whole "arbitrarily nerf yourself if you want a challenge" is a sign of bad game balance.

Because it translates into so many unwanted scenarios like;
- If you want a challenge, don't fly your favorite ship (if you like the big ships)
- If you want a challenge, don't use your favorite playstyle
- If you want a challenge, don't use the game mechanics (engineers)

I can see what you mean but how is your argument functionally different from 'I want to play the game on it's easiest setting but it's too easy'? Nothing is stopping you from doing the things. If I go karting & a racing driver joins the race I wouldn't expect them to complain that I wasn't good enough competition. I would be impressed by their ability & not be surprised if they gave themselves a voluntary handicap to make it a bit more fun for both of us.

 

[Susanna]

I get wrecked by AI in my cutter above expert. Dont know why you would want them harder

Wrecked in a Cutter by ships above Expert? I can only presume your Cutter isn't A rated and well engineered? Anything in a haz res or combat zone is just cannon fodder for my Cutter. Wings of Elite ships are not even a real threat. It's takes 6 plus fighters to whittle my Shields down and that is only because it takes a little time to kill fast fighters like Imperial Couriers in a Cutter even when using FAoff. With 8C Biweave shield fitted it's a piece of cake and you can just down ship after ship without caring. I'm not a good combat pilot... It's just that the AI doesn't scale well with well engineered ships. An Elite ship is still easy and doesn't pose much more of a threat than a lower ranked ship. My Python can take down an Elite Anaconda with only losing a single ring... That's the difference engineering makes, even when the elite npc's are supposed to have engineered ships as well.

 

[ThriveInDark]

Frankly, I think the whole "arbitrarily nerf yourself if you want a challenge" is a sign of bad game balance.

Because it translates into so many unwanted scenarios like;
- If you want a challenge, don't fly your favorite ship (if you like the big ships)
- If you want a challenge, don't use your favorite playstyle
- If you want a challenge, don't use the game mechanics (engineers)

Bingo. Its up to us to try and experience all the content the game developers have offered us, not decide NOT to take advantage of things that were a significant time investment in the gaining to begin with. It was the developers job to create the difficulty scale, and though I love this game I will admit they missed at the top end. I think I agree that a single Elite AI as it currently stands shouldn't stand up to an engineered player ship, but I think that they should update AI controlled wing tactics. If they did that, a wing of vipers could honestly become dangerous. The reason is because anything you encounter within normal play (so maybe Pirate Lords could be super elites or something), would be too frequent without much way to tell what you're getting into. Ie, lets say I need to make some creds and want to farm, and elite targets pay the most but I can't tell what is elite/elite+engineered etc, and start an engagement and BECOME that insta-splat in my a-rated but not engineered ship.

So single AI should fall fast vs engineered player every time. But AI wings should employ better tactics and pose actual threat.

How about another Conflict Zone tier btw? Seems like I jump into high intensity frequently that are nothing more than a few eagles/vipers/cobras and then I'm hopping out and back in to reset. Doesn't feel highly intense. How about a CNB of CZs, where you can expect to be outnumbered (but still have AI backup) or something.

 

[Pyrobee]

Plaese brng back 2.1 AI with engineered weapons. Current AI is a joke even in an unengineered ship.

 

[Riverside]

How about another Conflict Zone tier btw?

I'd be much happier with this. A RES is intended as mining gameplay with occasional Pirates. If there is to be a harder standard scenario added, it seems to me a CZ would make more sense than a RES.

Plaese brng back 2.1 AI with engineered weapons. Current AI is a joke even in an unengineered ship.

Calling it a joke is unhelpful feedback. Can you provide some context? How long have you played, what ship are you in etc.