Fer De Lance - Best 'Laser Only' Build...?

[Nazdakka]

During the course of preparing No.3 in my "Top Tips" series ...

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/341107-Truesilver-s-Top-Tips-No-3-Gimballed-Duelling

... I found a FdL with 5 x gimballed lasers to perform better in Engineered PvP duelling than expected. Their lower DPS than multis is made up for to some extent by lack of reload time, but more importantly by the fact that a gimballed laser will almost always hit a shielded target (even a small one) at more or less any range or angle, whereas beyond 2 km a vast proportion of multi bullets can miss.

...and also, when they chaff, you can just deselect the target and have three slightly-worse fixed pulses for a while. Harder to pull off with MCs.

I've been playing with this for a while after I got fed up with my MC-based FdL continually running out of ammo. I like to hunt at compromised nav beacons (lots of high-ranked small ships). My current setup uses one huge and two medium gimballed pulses (gimbals because I like to fight close-in and the extra fire arc is useful), and 2 MCs (one corrosive) for killing hulls. It worked well, except that I sometimes didn't have the burst DPS to overwhelm a big ship's shield cell. If I go hunting at a HazRez, I might switch in efficient PAs for the MCs to give me some more punch.

 

[N3rd Murd3r3r]

Ah I was going to try the x5 Efficient Burst on the FDL (all with Scramble Spectrum for a laugh), but just have a couple of fire groups to cope.

Interesting that the huge burst isn't working as intended though, is that confirmed?

 

[wrmiller]

Quad plasma FDL Can also put a kettle on your dashboard and brew some good tea.

LOL...I tried this setup, but as I can't mod PAs, my thermal would spike a bit every time I pulled the trigger. But as you say, it's great for keeping your beverage of choice (in my case a nice dark Colombian) quite toasty.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/fer...18aQ==.Aw18aQ==..EweloBhAOEoUwIYHMA28QgIwV0A=

A simple Fer de Laser build that has worked well for me in the past - if you're feeling lazy, sub the fixed burst for turret burst. Power Plant engineering is a must though.

 

[GoStu]

... I found a FdL with 5 x gimballed lasers to perform better in Engineered PvP duelling than expected. Their lower DPS than multis is made up for to some extent by lack of reload time, but more importantly by the fact that a gimballed laser will almost always hit a shielded target (even a small one) at more or less any range or angle, whereas beyond 2 km a vast proportion of multi bullets can miss.

I therefore experimented with the various laser options - beams, bursts, long range, efficient, combination of long range and efficient, combination of bursts and pulses ... huge long range, rest efficient, etc etc etc ...

... and I found that what worked best for me was just 5 x efficient pulses. This was actually better on the Distro during a long fight than bursts, notwithstanding that bursts have ostensibly slightly better DPE (as they still draw more per second, meaning the relative Distro use is worse with several pips in the Distro).

Although there are strong 'tactical' arguments to be made for long range, a large part of my own choice was that my preferred fighting range is around 750 m to 1.5 km, and 5 x efficient pulses simply offered the best combination of low heat and draw with acceptable damage at that range. Also, three (1 x c4 and 2 x c2) were phasing, which is unaffected by range. (The other two were emissive and scramble spectrum.) And long range is more of a fixed thing, whereas the point of this exercise was to explore gimbals.

A very interesting video & point. I tend to run a fair number of lasers; I get the feeling that multicannons & other kinetic weapons get slightly overvalued by the PvP community in general. Yes, they have a lot less falloff, piercing values are a little higher, and distributor draw is lower... but hitscan is an amazingly valuable thing. A laser fired at a moving target 2km away does a little under half its damage... a multicannon round fired at a moving target at 2k probably misses, doing zero damage.

 

[Truesilver]

Ah I was going to try the x5 Efficient Burst on the FDL (all with Scramble Spectrum for a laugh)

Don't do it! Scramble spectrum has a very high trigger chance followed by an automatic cooldown. In other words, you'll basically cause as many malfunctions with one scrambler as five. There might be an argument for two, but certainly no more.

A very interesting video & point. I tend to run a fair number of lasers; I get the feeling that multicannons & other kinetic weapons get slightly overvalued by the PvP community in general. Yes, they have a lot less falloff, piercing values are a little higher, and distributor draw is lower... but hitscan is an amazingly valuable thing. A laser fired at a moving target 2km away does a little under half its damage... a multicannon round fired at a moving target at 2k probably misses, doing zero damage.

Thank you - amusingly, I set out in that Beta to make an episode in my series focused on gimballed weapons for PvP, and naturally intended to use kinetic.

However, I then realised that my Beta save file contained barely any synthesis mats. So, because it was Beta, I couldn't be bothered grinding for mats and fitted lasers instead ... one thing kind of led to another. And I'll be the first to admit - they performed better than I had expected...!

 

[jasonbarron]

Yes, this ^^ would be a strong contender for the most effective all-fixed PvP duelling build in the current version of the game.

(But we're talking about five lasers, not three lasers, Jason!!) Modz ban im plz

Oh, I didn't catch the part about all 5x lasers. I guess I'd probably try all efficient pulse's if that is the case. I don't see myself doing it any time soon, though, as my new 2x medium focused PA's & huge LR cannon with the long range rail's as utility is a nasty little piece of work that I'm having waay too much fun with.

 

[Marklar_]

Don't do it! Scramble spectrum has a very high trigger chance followed by an automatic cooldown. In other words, you'll basically cause as many malfunctions with one scrambler as five. There might be an argument for two, but certainly no more.

This has been my experience as well, scramble spectrum and corrosive shell don't seem to stack. I like to put one of each on small turrets to proc them as much as possible.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

i notice people who use mc go on about running out of ammo. is this with or without synthesis? i can make more ammo, but from the lack of mentions of synth im guessing its not worth doing except in emergency?

 

[sb413197]

Could you elaborate on the huge burst efficiency? I've though of trying that. On my Corvette I use huge efficient beams up top with efficient burst everywhere else. PvE only.

I hate leaving a good haz res or CNB because I ran out of ammo, so I switched to all energy weps a while back.

Yeah, the DPS of a huge burst is around 20 percent higher than pulse, but has like 40 percent mote distributor draw. Burst is SUPPOSED to be the most efficient in DPS, and is with the other sizes, but not in size4.

Beam makes sense in its own way (highest DPS and instant ability to turn on and off firing when target goes in and out of target). Burst makes sense - highest DPS to diatributor draw ratio, but less forgiving if you can't keep target in sights and kinda heat intensive (but relevant with efficient lasers so much though). Pulse is the most heat efficient and puts out all it's damage in one blast.

IMHO size4 burst is the only laser that makes NO sense currently. It is borked.

 

[Truesilver]

i notice people who use mc go on about running out of ammo. is this with or without synthesis? i can make more ammo, but from the lack of mentions of synth im guessing its not worth doing except in emergency?

The PvE guys can of course speak for themselves, but I think most take running out of ammo as a cue to go and cash in the bounties/bonds. It's only a few minutes until you're back in the RES/CZ.

From a PvP perspective, running out of ammo isn't really an issue in wing fighting because somebody will be focused down first. But in 1v1's, anyone with a heavily ammo-based build has to carry a ton of synthesis just to be sure of getting through one serious fight. They take forever nowadays.

The smaller the ship, the more ammo you have to carry. I fly a 1v1 Courier and I won't go to a CG without at least 400-500 reload mats.

my new 2x medium focused PA's & huge LR cannon with the long range rail's as utility is a nasty little piece of work that I'm having waay too much fun with.

Ouch! Yes, very nasty indeed. Assuming you're running TLB and Dispersal on the PA's, do you have Force Shell or High Yield on the cannon?

 

[jasonbarron]

The PvE guys can of course speak for themselves, but I think most take running out of ammo as a cue to go and cash in the bounties/bonds. It's only a few minutes until you're back in the RES/CZ.

From a PvP perspective, running out of ammo isn't really an issue in wing fighting because somebody will be focused down first. But in 1v1's, anyone with a heavily ammo-based build has to carry a ton of synthesis just to be sure of getting through one serious fight. They take forever nowadays.

The smaller the ship, the more ammo you have to carry. I fly a 1v1 Courier and I won't go to a CG without at least 400-500 reload mats.



Ouch! Yes, very nasty indeed. Assuming you're running TLB and Dispersal on the PA's, do you have Force Shell or High Yield on the cannon?

TLB & Dispersal (teehee) on the PA's and High Yield on the cannon. Brand new setup, just got things dialed in late last night. I spend a loooooooooot more time looking for materials than I do flying combat. Hopefully that'll change with completing this setup. At least for a few weeks....

 

[N3rd Murd3r3r]

A tiny bit off topic on my own thread but...

Re: Scramble Spectrum, I see I may have fallen foul of my version of the game, 'Elite: No User Guide Edition'.

For the Nth time.

From fairly extensive reading of these hallowed pages, I was led to believe that Scramble Spectrum had a roughly 1 in a 100 chance of triggering per hull strike. The enemy ship hologram would then indicate a yellow triangle (moderate malfunction) or a red triangle for serious (I assume the likes of power plant or thrusters etc). There would then be a cool-down period before it could be triggered again.

You would pay a -7.5% rate of Fire penalty for this privilege.

The rational behind all 5 hardpoints with Scramble Spectrun would be that you're landing 15 shots per barrage (slightly slower on the huge hard point) which means you'd be triggering at least one malfunction per target, and pretty quickly at that with burst lasers.

Not a practical build, but a potentially funny one.

Is this not the case?

 

[Spacecat]

I too like MCs, but a number of times I ran out of ammo after spending a hour or two in a haz res and got frustrated. So I switched to all lasers. It's not perfect, but at least I don't run out of ammo.

Find a haz res near a station.

 

[V'larr]

If I were building an all-laser FDL, I'd go with 4 gimballed pulses and a fixed burst, or possibly all-fixed burst if I wanted to give myself some extra challenge.

A tiny bit off topic on my own thread but...
Re: Scramble Spectrum, I see I may have fallen foul of my version of the game, 'Elite: No User Guide Edition'.
For the Nth time.
From fairly extensive reading of these hallowed pages, I was led to believe that Scramble Spectrum had a roughly 1 in a 100 chance of triggering per hull strike. The enemy ship hologram would then indicate a yellow triangle (moderate malfunction) or a red triangle for serious (I assume the likes of power plant or thrusters etc). There would then be a cool-down period before it could be triggered again.
You would pay a -7.5% rate of Fire penalty for this privilege.
The rational behind all 5 hardpoints with Scramble Spectrun would be that you're landing 15 shots per barrage (slightly slower on the huge hard point) which means you'd be triggering at least one malfunction per target, and pretty quickly at that with burst lasers.
Not a practical build, but a potentially funny one.
Is this not the case?

My understanding is that the effect does not stack and so it's not worth taking more than 1 scramble-spectrum mod, though I suppose it is a higher chance of getting the effect to re-trigger when it's off-cooldown after the previous one.

 

[Truesilver]

Re: Scramble Spectrum, I see I may have fallen foul of my version of the game, 'Elite: No User Guide Edition'.

For the Nth time.

From fairly extensive reading of these hallowed pages, I was led to believe that Scramble Spectrum had a roughly 1 in a 100 chance of triggering per hull strike. The enemy ship hologram would then indicate a yellow triangle (moderate malfunction) or a red triangle for serious (I assume the likes of power plant or thrusters etc). There would then be a cool-down period before it could be triggered again.

You would pay a -7.5% rate of Fire penalty for this privilege.

The rational behind all 5 hardpoints with Scramble Spectrun would be that you're landing 15 shots per barrage (slightly slower on the huge hard point) which means you'd be triggering at least one malfunction per target, and pretty quickly at that with burst lasers.

The misapprehension here is over the '1 in 100' chance. It's at least 10 times better than that. I've used and tested scramble many times and had it used against me by wingmates under test conditions. I haven't gone so far as to crunch hard numbers (or I'd publish them here) because it was unnecessary: scramble always causes a malfunction almost instantly.

Just this week at the Harma CG I fought a Clipper with 3 x multis and 1 x scramble spectrum laser. Every time my bi-weave dropped the malfunctions were near-immediate and subject to cooldown near-continuous (though, they were insufficient to permit my adversary to carry the day, o7...)

Basically the trigger chance is so high that you don't need more than one or at the outside two scramblers. Once the target is out of cooldown you'll get another malfunction almost immediately with one scrambler, or five.

The reason scramble isn't OP is that the malfunctions are spread randomly between all the modules in the vicinity or hemisphere of the hull strike. So, provided the target ship has good power priorities and in particular can power drives through a powerplant malfunction, it's more of an inconvenience and psychological battery than a game-changer.

 

[StiTch]

The misapprehension here is over the '1 in 100' chance. It's at least 10 times better than that. I've used and tested scramble many times and had it used against me by wingmates under test conditions. I haven't gone so far as to crunch hard numbers (or I'd publish them here) because it was unnecessary: scramble always causes a malfunction almost instantly.

Just this week at the Harma CG I fought a Clipper with 3 x multis and 1 x scramble spectrum laser. Every time my bi-weave dropped the malfunctions were near-immediate and subject to cooldown near-continuous (though, they were insufficient to permit my adversary to carry the day, o7...)

Basically the trigger chance is so high that you don't need more than one or at the outside two scramblers. Once the target is out of cooldown you'll get another malfunction almost immediately with one scrambler, or five.

The reason scramble isn't OP is that the malfunctions are spread randomly between all the modules in the vicinity or hemisphere of the hull strike. So, provided the target ship has good power priorities and in particular can power drives through a powerplant malfunction, it's more of an inconvenience and psychological battery than a game-changer.

As always some on point info, especially regarding its use - for pulling the trousers down around players that can't/don't prioritise power correctly, or as an extra element of inducing panic. If lasers had anything better to use I wouldn't even bother equipping one for PvE - so benign are the malfunctions that several PvE players have questioned whether it actually works, on account of NPCs being apparently unaffected.

As it affects DPS via RoF it's not bad to have one in any case...but if lasers had anything as unequivocally advantageous as Auto Loader (because what we needed in this game was for kinetic weapons to get the good effects...) I wouldn't lose any sleep over dropping SS.

To answer OP specifically the good ol' death star pulse lazor FDL will never die. I personally wouldn't equip five pulses though - probably four C2 gimballed efficient pulses and one C4 fixed long range pulse or something. Give the top weapons use of their decent upwards line of sight for evasion tanking, and given the bottom slot aims terribly upwards anyway, leave it as a fixed weapon to punish ships at longer ranges.

 

[N3rd Murd3r3r]

Thanks to Stitch and Truesilver right there (no idea how to rep on mobile, sorry).

If only this was explained by the Engineers slightly better:

Me: 'Hey Broo, what's this upgrade do?'
Broo: 'Stop flapping your lips and give me the Cadmium'
Me: 'Ok...but it's safe right?'
Broo: 'You still talking?'
Me: 'Yeah bu...'
Broo: 'Shhhhhh...'*strokes head*

I'm going to be slightly contrary and have two Efficient Bursts with Scrambled Spectrum (because, you know, I've already got them) and the rest Efficient Pulse, maybe with Phasing Sequence (aware of damage penalties) because I've always enjoyed that Special. Especially when shields go back up on NPC's with 1% hull left.

At the end of the day it's PVE; I could glue 5 plastic knives on to all 5 hardpoints and be ok.

 

[StiTch]

(no idea how to rep on mobile, sorry).

"View Full Site"

At the end of the day it's PVE; I could glue 5 plastic knives on to all 5 hardpoints and be ok.

Lol...post-2.1 PvE summed up.

Okay they were even more braindead before but at least we were physically on par.

 

[N3rd Murd3r3r]

Lol switched to full site two rep you two (but then switched back after, because YUCK).

Yeah I miss the first AI upgrade, SkynetBorg V1. Still have nightmares of that Elite Annie spinning on a dime and then raking me with machine gun plasma fire. But at the same time, wish it provided the same kind of challenge.

Thanks folks, one Christmas tree FDL coming up (or will be when I get back from Crete).