How much of an impact do you truly believe rebuys have on murder hobo'ing?

Goose4291

Banned
As a lot of the people who get tarred here with the griefer brush have been saying in every discussion since the first mention of it by the Sandro in that bizarre 'shadowbans for all' thread where this first became a big forum argument thing, the idea of credit/bounty punishments is not going to deter anyone from carrying on with their current play styles.

We said this because unlike some of the non-open players involved in this discussion we actually play and talk with those 'damn griefers', because they're a part of our daily experience of the game.

Glad to see that once again, in crafting a solution they've listened to the usual people (who sometimes admit they dont play in open) and ignored those of us who actually play in open, to fix an open mode issue.

Boggles my mind, it does.
 
Play nice? After you start out calling PvPers murder hobos and exploiters.

Optimistic. I'll give you that. :D

He didn't call PvP players murder hobos. Unless you consider all PvP players murder hobos, but that's up to you.

On topic:
No concept is 100% perfect, but I don't think they are aiming to remove unconsensual player destruction anyway. The goal is to add some consequences to this behaviour. Otherwise you could just start removing their access to the game, nobody wants that.
 
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I admire your optimism. I suspect this will be the usual 'minimum effort, job done' approach frontier seem to have when it comes to updating the games mechanics.

And I don't. I do think it will take a lot of time, first to implement and then to refine. I wouldn't expect to see anything significant until 3.x

But until then, stating that the CPK system will do this, that or the other is just speculation since we have no idea what it will (or won't) do yet.
 
I cannot reason the fact that high sec. system should have the NPC ai with the ability to kill cmdr through force-numbers, this should be the first to implement followed by competed bounty hunters (eng. wpn-shields) who will make your life difficult.

Then we can move to rebuys and docking privileges if needed
 
Your title and post don't seem to match... Lol

Anyhoo, answering the OP title, usually, being murdered effects me very little. I have plenty of cash, I never use my good crew in Open, and rarely have anything I care about losing.
The only real change that would happen is my ships naming ID being changed, and its name having an number increment. Lol

However, I'm almost done unlocking the Corvette (25% to go!) and I've switched to high profit missions over high rep, so hopefully my cash will cover the cost of a Corvette when I finally unlock it.
So death right now, especially in my 20m CR rebuy Anaconda, would set me back somewhat. Still nothing major though. Killing my Anaconda is no easy achievement either.
During a breif test against a full PvP Cutter, I could take sustained fire from 800m for almost a full minute, without the use of SCBs, and still have 1 ring left.
More than enough time for a high wake. I could probably even open the galaxy map to select a system of my choosing, and still escape with shields. Lol

That said, I've only died to non-consensual PvP once. Ever.
And it was hilarious.

:D


CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
 

dayrth

Volunteer Moderator
The extra rebuy may not have a large effect, but it will have some effect (takes the perpetrator a little more time to recoup the loss if nothing else), so is better than nothing. It is also unlikely to be the only thing. Sandro has said that the karma system will be keeping track of player kills (not wanted or hostile) and the balance (or imbalance) between the attacker and the victim.

As a step in the right direction, I welcome the additional rebuy cost.
 
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I would have thought rebuy cost would have an absolutely minimal impact on the kind of gameplay that most people seem to get sand in their orifices about, simply because by its nature, the player doing it will very rarely earn a rebuy to begin with.
 

dayrth

Volunteer Moderator
...by its nature, the player doing it will very rarely earn a rebuy to begin with.
I think the idea is to prevent the player switching to a cheap ship and letting the authorities blow him up, thereby clearing the bounty and only having a very cheap rebuy. They can still let the authorities blow them up, but the rebuy will include the price of the (probably very expensive) ship they used to commit the crime.
 

Goose4291

Banned
I think the idea is to prevent the player switching to a cheap ship and letting the authorities blow him up, thereby clearing the bounty and only having a very cheap rebuy. They can still let the authorities blow them up, but the rebuy will include the price of the (probably very expensive) ship they used to commit the crime.

Which therein lies the issue.

Nobody worth their salt bothers with suicidewindering anymore. Haven't done for years in fact for the most part.
 
Which therein lies the issue.

Nobody worth their salt bothers with suicidewindering anymore. Haven't done for years in fact for the most part.

Which issue? Just because most people don't do this anymore, it doesn't mean that it shouldn't get fixed. In regards to the thread: Yes, it will not stop people from attacking other ships, but unlike some people think this isn't the goal anyway.
 

Deleted member 38366

D
IMHO the System that's currently being evaluated (Rebuy most expensive Ship used during murder spree) is 100.0% ineffective.

What's the point of an increased Fine (Credits) if most "murder hobos" literally swim in Credits and can afford to throw away Cutters or Vettes just for fun?
It's entirely pointless and merely cosmetic.

At its core
- it misses the key issues and goals of a functional C&P System entirely
- it merely creates a small modifier on the cheap, fake pseudo-C&P System we already have; cosmetic in nature and resembles "putting lipstick on a pig"

Wake me up when the Rebuy is increased proportionally scaled by the amount of Damage dealt, then we'd have an actual limiter, even if blunt and only Credits-based. And a limiter is what's fundamentally needed.

IMHO most folks wouldn't mind having someone blow up another Player.
The only issue that ever existed was that Gankers (please don't tell me it isn't 100% crystal clear what these guys are about) were invited like flies on [4 characters] by the (non-)existing Crime & Punishment System.
And all that over 2 years now, so one could hardly blame them for joining that party.

After all, from the get-go everything was massively tilted in their favor, be it the lack of rearward Sensor Scanning, the total lack of IFF, the total lack of meaningful System Authority Response, the lack of other meaningful consequences, the #REF - 0 imbalance baked into this part of the core Game, Permit Systems not caring, Factions not caring, Powers not caring, Superpowers not caring and the Pilots Federation not caring... Pick your favorite.

If anything, it requires a completely different approach. Credits alone just don't cut it.
Something that actually can act as a limiter. And something that at least gives the Targets a realistic hope that the Criminal will likely one day face some kind of justice.

IMHO the core issue isn't the C&P System itself. It lies with those that made this cancerous Design Decision(tm) to not have any in the first place.
So when it comes to whom do I trust to actually develop, balance and implement a fail-safe C&P System, my trust only lies on the myriad of superb suggestions that came from the Community.
But definitely not Frontier. They've proven sufficiently enough that they don't desire any such thing, nor believe it would be any issue in the 1st place.
[Movie Quote of the Day : The Problem isn't the Problem. The Problem is their attitude about the Problem] ;)

Based on the last poll, this epic misassessment (total disconnect from reality) has caused a scattering of the Gaming population into countless fragments and away from Open Play.
(and seeing even absolutely critical issues [bugs/exploits] not being hotfixed as they should - but left alone for many months - that really doesn't help retaining trust in a company that supposedly runs a balanced MMO aimed to entertain all Players)

I guess we'll see what any future Karma System might bring, but frankly it's waaaay too late already. The damage is already done and at this point almost irreversible.
But no harm in trying I guess. Only caviat : this time around, it needs to hit the nail on the head on 1st try. Anything else would just be more embarassment and demonstrating ineptitude.
 
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Hi

Seeing as most of the community cannot decide on what is griefing and what is emergent game play.
I am going to class any kill, of any player, for any reason, unless they are wanted, as Murder Hobo'ing. ( If they are wanted that is Bounty Hunting )

I want to find out if you really think the following will make ANY impact in reducing Murder Hobo'ing, when the risk of a non-consensual rebuy for a half competent Murder Hobo'ist is just above zero.

1) Increasing the rebuy to the largest ship they killed someone in, because you actually believe PVP players with their billions of exploited credits are concerned with local bounties.

2) A Karma system, where end result is going to be bigger fines on death and if we are lucky some actual in game stuff around restricted docking.

Here is a list of ways to avoid ever dying in ED. In case you were not aware of all of them. Some new tools for the Murder Hobo's as well, number 3 what a gem!

1) Having an engineered ship that can boost fast in a straight line and have enough shields to last around 30 seconds with high wake. ( Grom missiles can be easily avoided if your ship is fast enough and for bigger ships ( now with increased ability to SCB spam thanks to endless Heat sinks - Thanks FDEV ) they easily can tank the additional 40 seconds between reset and high waking during the Groms cool down ( totally useless ) period.

2) 15 Second logging in the event of danger.

3) Blocking any dangerous threats in your instance, while you continue to dunk on Sidewinders, Asps and T6's in your Full Meta FDL

Play nice, the floor is yours

Edit - Please allow a delay in all my response. They are pre-checked for your protection

On its own, I think it might make a few fence sitters think twice, but it won't work on its own. As part of future improvements to C&P, though, I do think it could do the job. Not so much stopping murder hobos 100%, but at least forcing them to flee to Anarchy space until the heat dies down.
 
C&P system in open will be fairly meaningless, the majority already fly with report cimes off.

The majority of PvP players maybe (EDIT probably not even the majority of PvP players, maybe the majority of murder hobos?). The majority (which isn't very much interested in PvP BTW) flies most definetely with report crimes on.
 
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Very little effect. This is why removal of docking privalages, insurance and being continually hunted by very high level PF insurance adjusters (with eng gear) also should be on the table
 
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