In fairness I think he was talking about Reddit, and that it happens from time to time, not all the time. Being Reddit I can quite believe it. I sometimes think Reddit's slogan should be "We're not quite 4chan".
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Criminal Gameplay needs to be made Viable and Meaningful
- Thread starter Kethriss
- Start date
In fairness I think he was talking about Reddit, and that it happens from time to time, not all the time. Being Reddit I can quite believe it. I sometimes think Reddit's slogan should be "We're not quite 4chan".
I would like to see criminal enterprise to be more profitable in ways that didn't result in innocent players' deaths, and at the same time, have meaningless ganking treated much more harshly. It would be great for actual piracy to be much more profitable vs npc's and players, as in the theft of goods by breaking hatches or threats(pvp). At the same time though, killing a player should force the killer to be treated like an actual murderer, where they are killed on site in any system with security and barred from entering non-anarchy stations. NPC security ships are embarassingly pathetic, but having to go on the lamb and only use anarchy systems to rearm/refuel (without scavenging for limpets or using wings with ships that have roles like a mechanic ship, refuel ship, etc).
It's neat to have actual gameplay where players are engaging in faction combat or bounty hunting each other or being pirates or even being raider/reaver style death riders... but it's not a good system if the criminals are only criminals because they are bored and the game doesn't punish them enough. Make criminal activity be extremely profitable and dangerous.
Criminal behavior should act like exploration. When going on an exploration trip, the player is gone for multiple sessions and completely changes the way they play during this time. Light criminal activity should be like this, having to hide out in fringe systems after a "score" and have the feeling of being on the lamb. As with career explorers who have massively focused and usually large ships going out into the black for sometimes months at a time, a career criminal should be used to flying under the radar in security spaces, using their own cartel wings for refueling and repairs or supplies to support their activities and going back to "pirate ports" (anarchy systems) to do any modifications/missions/etc.
TL
R- Make the player kill bounty also make stations in systems with any security attack the ships. Think of it like this, the current system (even in beta) is as if I got out of my car with a license plate on camera and shot someone in the back of the head while he was at an atm, and then with a full apb on that vehicle and myself in effect, i just drive down to the local walmart to restock my ammo and buy a rifle with the dead man's money. Then i go outside, shoot someone driving by with the rifle, decide I don't like it and go back in to return it for a refund on my credit card.
It's neat to have actual gameplay where players are engaging in faction combat or bounty hunting each other or being pirates or even being raider/reaver style death riders... but it's not a good system if the criminals are only criminals because they are bored and the game doesn't punish them enough. Make criminal activity be extremely profitable and dangerous.
Criminal behavior should act like exploration. When going on an exploration trip, the player is gone for multiple sessions and completely changes the way they play during this time. Light criminal activity should be like this, having to hide out in fringe systems after a "score" and have the feeling of being on the lamb. As with career explorers who have massively focused and usually large ships going out into the black for sometimes months at a time, a career criminal should be used to flying under the radar in security spaces, using their own cartel wings for refueling and repairs or supplies to support their activities and going back to "pirate ports" (anarchy systems) to do any modifications/missions/etc.
TL
R- Make the player kill bounty also make stations in systems with any security attack the ships. Think of it like this, the current system (even in beta) is as if I got out of my car with a license plate on camera and shot someone in the back of the head while he was at an atm, and then with a full apb on that vehicle and myself in effect, i just drive down to the local walmart to restock my ammo and buy a rifle with the dead man's money. Then i go outside, shoot someone driving by with the rifle, decide I don't like it and go back in to return it for a refund on my credit card.
You know very well these posts stay long enough before moderation steps in. There is a latent hostility towards pirates and anything even remotely pvp around here, so reports are slow to come in and depending on who's reading the report backlog probably even slower to be acted upon (there is this convenient moderation rule which allows moderators to take part in discussions and therefore prevents - or rather absolves - them from moderating it).
You've been around for long enough, you know my integrity as a decent human is being questioned regularly on the forums (and in this regard Reddit is actually usually much more civil) for supporting murder hobo-ism, and I'm of course not mentioning comments IG (but certainly not in character) when I take part in piracy which come in real time. And surely you remember that back in early 2015, when griefing wasn't really a thing and piracy was the big bad wolf, all the armchair psychologists calling griefers psychopaths, were actually directing the very same bile at pirates, because "IG pirates steal RL time".
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It's not evenabout griefing or piracy. Try powerplay PVP or piracy, you'll be called a aswell, though not as often. But thanks for derailing the thread.
Yes, absolutely. It still adds cancer to the discussion although it's absolutely unnecessary.
"harsh", lol
I said/did something you didn't like and you immediately plug your ears and start having a panic attack and ignore any and all sense and logic and try to make me out to be some scumbag.
just like the people who throw tantrums at gankers.
The thing is, you are doing the very same thing by implying that all PvE players are arm chair psychologists who are so crazy that they call everyone rapists and terrorists dor playing a game. I am not denying that 1/500 people is an idiot. Sadly that's true for both sides of the argument, I'd say it would be best to ignore or report it rather than making it an essential part of your argument.
Just like you...
Sorry for derailing your thread, I am sure you have a good message. It would've been easier to just remove that part of your post.
I'd like to ask everybody to now ignore the guy who's just here to argue and discuss the points made in my OP, id rather not have this thread moderated because people lack basic reading comprehension.
this is a thread to discuss adding meaningful gameplay and mechanics to criminal activities in the game and turn it in to a rewarding, yet highly risky path to take.
this is a thread to discuss adding meaningful gameplay and mechanics to criminal activities in the game and turn it in to a rewarding, yet highly risky path to take.
If you have a problem with people discussing and arguing you are on the wrong platform.
I'm making no such claim and I haven't seen anyone in this thread making it either. I'm just countering the idea that these comments never happens. They happen, even with moderation (by necessity moderation steps in *after* it happens), in various forms, some more or less overt.
Can we go back to the original topic here, please? I may not be a moderator here, but this has gotta stop lol.
i have no oroblem with discussion and debate. my problem is people who have no interest in the actual topic and are just here to derail the thread because they dont like that i pointed out a problem with the game's community.
so please, i politely request that if this is going to continue to just be about me pointing out comments from dumb people on reddit or in-game you leave. if youd like to further discuss the topic of the OP, then youre more than welcome to. no, i cant actually kick you out and youre free to do what you want, but as i said id rather not have this thread moderated.
If it happens rarely I don't understand why it needs to be a highlighted point in OPs argument. Anyway, I don't want to derail the thread further.
Specifically, it's named after the *combat* rank. Elite: Entrepreneur and Elite: Ranger would also be valid titles - CQC could be rebranded "Elite: Hero" on the same logic - but give a very different impression about what the game is about.
Which is more likely:
- Frontier subtitled the game "Dangerous" for marketing reasons to give an impression of ... er ... danger, and maybe even excitement, in a way that "IV" doesn't, and then came up with a bit of in-game justification for it
- Frontier subtitled the game "Dangerous" purely due to an obscure bit of lore which, so far after three years of game releases, has exactly zero in-game effect, and other than in "actually this is why it's called Elite Dangerous" posts never comes up out of game either.
this please
the more i think about it the more i feel "Syndicates" could be an actual mechanic all on their own, not just named minor factions. there could also be task forces for law abiding bounty hunters and the like to go and attempt to undermine these syndicates, allowing for *gasp* actual encouraged and meaningful PVP
again, tie it in to the future karma system. working against the criminal enterprises will gain you a lot of positive karma and give you access to services and maybe an engineer or some super fancy wanted board that lists all the most wanted criminals in the galaxy and their last known high-sec location. and mahbe a watch list for commanders with exceptionally low karma, and bounty hunt missions to go after these players (of course these mechanics would be open play exclusive) and have a counter part for the criminal syndicates. have a hit list of commanders from the task forces who have taken out numerous wanted players from that syndicate.
stuff like that.
![BigBANGtheory [VR]](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/71/71385.jpg?1644873788){kind=avatar}
I think the OP is right, but its part of a bigger context
imho there should be (in no particular order):
1. risk vs. reward
2. cause and effect
3. action and consequence
What you don't want is game mechanics that encourage or can be used to achieve diklike behaviour because whilst it might be appealing to some its highly toxic to others.
A pirate that destroys a victims ship for example should be able to salvage high value parts to use or sell, but at the same time incur a much harsher response and scrutiny from lawful systems with it ending in a near death sentance to even enter such a system and bounty hunters trying to find them. Where as a pirate the steals goods doesn't face such a response and is "tolerated" until their rep falls into serious crime.
imho there should be (in no particular order):
1. risk vs. reward
2. cause and effect
3. action and consequence
What you don't want is game mechanics that encourage or can be used to achieve diklike behaviour because whilst it might be appealing to some its highly toxic to others.
A pirate that destroys a victims ship for example should be able to salvage high value parts to use or sell, but at the same time incur a much harsher response and scrutiny from lawful systems with it ending in a near death sentance to even enter such a system and bounty hunters trying to find them. Where as a pirate the steals goods doesn't face such a response and is "tolerated" until their rep falls into serious crime.
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I strongly disagree with the notion that FD NEEDS to promote criminal activities in Elite: Dangerous. Dangerous != criminal.
I dont go on REDDIT, i was actually referring to here. It is a minority as with many things luckily, but just last week one guy said "whats the point in killing innocent people, if i wanted to do that i have knives downstairs (paraphrasing) and some other guy went off on a tangent about how being a murder hobo was literally directly relateable to murder/assault in real life. It does happen, but as i said luckily its a minority.
I don't PVP in ED, never did; but i did in Eve and we just killed anything that moves. Now i could accept that people didn't want to play with me that's fine; i only took issue when people A: condemned the way i choose to play and more than anything, B:...People who used armchair psychology to claim they know what i, as a real life person was like, and the kind of person i am, based on my actions in a game. It is bang out of order.
Again though, luckily its a minority, non the less its a disgraceful way to judge someone from a game.
As for your PSS; i totally agree.
the issue then becomes what is actually considered "toxic". IMO actual harassment and real griefing is whats toxic. A type 6 flying through an anarchy system and getting killed is not toxic, its an occupational hazard.
Again, adding meaningful interactions to the game with missions and reputation rewards and benefits backing up these actions will go a long way to discourage random ganking and griefing, it will still happen, but basically players will learn bery early on to avoid anarchy systems and the systems around syndicate hot spots, much like all new eve players are told to stay the hell out of nullsec.