Star Citizen Thread v6

[Rolan]

We saw a bit of all the stuff they have been working on and some new stuff:

- MobiGlass Enhancements
- 2.0 Item System
- Clothing Customization
- Subsumption AI
- Oxigen/Survival features
- Player Com's With Video
- A bit of Subsumption Ai
- FaceTrack+VOIP
- Cargo Tranportation
- Idris flyable (x2)
- Landing 2 gladius on a Idris

Sorry but from that list lets put what is really important:

- MobiGlass Enhancements (And it's debatable)
- 2.0 Item System
- Clothing Customization - Is not relevant in any way to the future gameplay or the core mechanics
- Subsumption AI - And we didn't really saw anything of this, just a couple of NPCs walking, one "fixing something" and a couple doing like if they were talking to each other.
- Oxigen/Survival features - The only survival feature was the oxigen, there was little else...
- Player Com's With Video - which may be great someday but for now... is not something useful and will probably not be usable by the players for quite a loooong time.
- A bit of Subsumption Ai - Don't repeat please
- FaceTrack+VOIP Useless and BTW doesn't help the game in any way for now, and even later will not be popular, time will tell!
- Cargo Tranportation - And again it's debatable because I didn't saw any real and amazing progress on this... and I'm going to ignore the ghost box from the presentation
- Idris flyable (x2) - Doesn't affect the game in any way for now
- Landing 2 gladius on a Idris nothing new, amazing or really an improvement, and much less on a ship that players will not use for quite a long time.


So from your list we end up with (and thats ignoring the *):

- MobiGlass Enhancements
- 2.0 Item System
- Subsumption AI *
- Oxigen/Survival features *
- Player Com's With Video
- Cargo Tranportation *


I fail to see your idea of

several progress in both game features and technical advancements

Game systems have to work first and then be made "fun" later. Sometimes only in the last process you get to see what's fun and what's not, Kingdom Come Deliverance went back to the drawing board on their meele fighting system because of the feedback of the fans that it wasn't fun enough.

Exactly, and is one of the reasons to be concerned about not being testing or even seeing anything about most roles/professions amongst other stuff.

 

[Zyll Goliat]

I've only saw bits of the edited Gamescom show but from what I've seen it showcased several progress in both game features and technical advancements along the habitual graphical candy stuff.

Yeah right...how convenient that you only saw a good part of the presentation chosen highlights and as always nice&eye candy ship commercials...shame...because as in that case you can´t discuss with us about the game crashes,boring dialogs&bad acting,dozen of glitches&bugs,non existent AI,horrible FM&bad physics and overall lame organization at show....well....thats really shame....

 

[AJW]

...
- Subsumption AI
...

Can you please explain how the 'Subsumption AI' shown at Gamescom differs in any way from bog-standard 'AI' featured in pretty much every video game created in the last 20 years. Because so far, I've seen nothing whatsoever to indicate any differences at all.

 

[Toumal]

Professions was what i was most looking forward to myself. How does bounty hunting work. Trading. Mining. Exploring (hah!).

At the end of the day, the game needs activities and professions that are rewarding in and by itself. Otherwise it can't have staying power.

This was abgreat chance for them to show progress on the core game loops. They didn't.

(Funnily enough, this is also what Elite needs to beef up ASAP)

 

[Asp Explorer]

Can you please explain how the 'Subsumption AI' shown at Gamescom differs in any way from bog-standard 'AI' featured in pretty much every video game created in the last 20 years. Because so far, I've seen nothing whatsoever to indicate any differences at all.

I'm still trying to work out what AI was demonstrated by CIG at Gamscom at all - subsumption or otherwise.

 

[Almighty Bob]

Bugs and glitches aside, who wants to discuss the gameplay? Looking at the interviews and watching back the stream, the gameplay is envisioned and demonstrated thus:

Wake up
Shower------------------------- ( Erin said it would only be required periodically and would not interfere with game play so that is a bit of a red herring)
Get dressed via mobiglass ----( only required as you would expect to go into a place with different atmosphere and in any case it is a pre set loadout (I do the same in Skyrim depending on my missions)
Walk to canteen --------------- ?????? thats news to me
Eat breakfast ---------------- ?????? again news to me have you got any details on how often you will have to eat??
Walk to mission giver ------------ unless the mission is on your mobiglass/pipboy so its a regular RPG FPS thing nothing unusual
Endure cutscene ----------------If you want (press f to skip it I guess like every other game else then blindly work your way through the mission in an arcade style without understanding the story)
More mobiglass ------------------/ pip boy
Walk to elevator -----------------Its not an arcade game
Walk to armory -------------------only if you need to buy more weapons but In Skyrim I went to the shops/forges a lot
Equip weapon via mobiglass -----/ Pipboy
Walk to elevator
Walk to terminal
Call ship
Walk to parking garage
Enter vehicle
Drive to landing pad
Exit vehicle
Walk to ship
Enter ship
Take off ship
Quantum jump
Enter atmosphere
Fly to waypoint
Land ship
Exit ship

And then you can start your mission.

And if you die go back to step 1

See my additions to your Smarty above, Clearly not an arcade game thanks for pointing that out

 

[VidarSnipes]

I'm still trying to work out what AI was demonstrated by CIG at Gamscom at all - subsumption or otherwise.

I guess an NPC walking by and starting to weld a random storefront at a perfect moment to be looked at is considered a presentation of their AI system. By the way it would be interesting (read: boooring) to check out whether he does his routine both pre-crash and post-crash.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I'm still trying to work out what AI was demonstrated by CIG at Gamscom at all - subsumption or otherwise.

Unfortunately, they didn't linger enough to show us that there was any subsumtion working. What they showed could easily have been achieved by any basic programming, not even any AI.

The only way they could have convinced the skeptics would have been either by showing the decision trees working server side, some sort of debug output, side by side with the game, or, failing that, a really impressive demo showing the AI doing various stuff over a period of time, that if not completely convinces us, at least looks like the AI are doing various things without it being scripted.

I suppose, if they had all those random people sitting down and playing that starport area (ie: the area with NPCs, instead of the PvP crysis level on planet they showed us) and we saw lots of different activities from the NPCs depending on who was there, and... no need for server reset, just throw the next group in, in they had decent AI we would have seen various activities and the AI responding to people.

They chose not to do that though.

 

[Almighty Bob]

Prior to the kickstarter Chris Roberts was pitching Star Citizen (the original 'vision') to publishers. I'm sure they've been having a right royal laugh watching this latest shenanigans.

So yeah the publishers were all "no thanks Chris Roberts" so then it became about the "evil publishers".

Then it was "evil Derek Smart" and yesterday it was "evil Madcatz".

Damage control this morning was Jared and the team talking about "we don't do smoke and mirrors, we show exactly where we are bugs and all"

Is that right Jared, is that why the players scrolled away every time another object vanished, clipped, broke, janked and we got to hear Chris yelling at his camera guy to change the viewpoint every time the game broke?

As for the builds, from the last two gamescons it looks to me like they just pull these things together from a big pile of parts when they need to show something or release something.

Every year shows less and less of any kind of coherent development, or plan, or management.

I may be wrong but I can find no record of Chris Roberts calling madcatz Evil, If you can quote your sources for the claims of him calling developer/madcatz and DS Evil, It would help me understand the context and assist with the discussion

I miss Derek since he left the forum 2 months or so ago ago. I liked his posts

 

[Neo-ST]

I'm still trying to work out what AI was demonstrated by CIG at Gamscom at all - subsumption or otherwise.

Star AI. Created in Star Engine. For Star Citizen, in Star Verse.

 

[McGlashan]

I'm still trying to work out what AI was demonstrated by CIG at Gamscom at all - subsumption or otherwise.

We saw a room full of minions who were basically playing the part of AI. Perhaps that's how subsumption will work, just scaled up to giant warehouses of Chinese workers controlling every NPC in the game. And while those NPCs are going about their daily routines they'll be earning in-game cash which can then be sold to players.

 

[Almighty Bob]

AMAZING new FoIP demonstration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cde01HNKQVw

2012. Invented by Croberts, stolen by time travel.

Frosty I know that in the past you have asked me not to reply to your posts as I make you feel uncomfortable. But I really do not understand this quote
"2012 " Invented by Croberts, stolen by time travel"

I am fairly certain that CR did not invent it and in fact credited another company with its development this weekend could you expand please.

 

[ZeeWolf]

The drunken bar AI was amazingly realistic though. This guy got stuck on the furniture.

 

[Marak]

We saw a bit of all the stuff they have been working on and some new stuff:

- MobiGlass Enhancements
- 2.0 Item System
- Clothing Customization
- Subsumption AI
- Oxigen/Survival features
- Player Com's With Video
- A bit of Subsumption Ai
- FaceTrack+VOIP
- Cargo Tranportation
- Idris flyable (x2)
- Landing 2 gladius on a Idris

This is nice.

But I think players would rather see

Bounty hunting
Piracy
Trading
Exploration
Mining
Refining
Drinks mixing
Economy
Security missions
Gameplay loops
Assassination missions
Passenger transport
Birds
Another 99.5 systems*

etcetera.

Why are CIG concentrating on fluff that no one has asked for before they look at the stuff that people want, and the stuff they have promised?

Is it because doing the big stuff is too hard and they need to show something to keep the $$$s flowing?

When will they get around to making the game they promised?

*added in an edit

 

[Almighty Bob]

It'll be easy to spot the VR users in Star Citizen. They'll be the ones with the fixed expression of "just about to throw up"

Frank you may have misunderstood the technology/ or maybe I have.

FOIP and VR will not be compulsory in SC. FOIP is a technological breakthrough about 10 years in the making and has run in parallel but not linked to true VR.

I can not see how someone playing VR could also have their facial expression mapped to indicate their feeling of VR induced nausea, or 'throw up' as you say. (excuse my English if my spelling is incorrect)

If you are telling me that VR head sets will support FOIP then that will be fantastic

note--
I play ED almost 100% in VR and never get nausea
Although SC have said it will be viable for VR, much to my disappointment it does not seem to be a priority.

 

[Almighty Bob]

Nice to see that their network code has enough spare bandwidth to accommodate FoIP.

Even with every player in a single instance.

I'm ready to be super impressed. Just as soon as it's live.

Henry I did listen to the stuff about it coming over spectrum on a different network to the game but I am not not sure how it will work/link in. If it does work like that it may have to be a like having it open as a different program like discord and making it optional for those with slow internet

 

[MTBFritz]

Can you please explain how the 'Subsumption AI' shown at Gamescom differs in any way from bog-standard 'AI' featured in pretty much every video game created in the last 20 years. Because so far, I've seen nothing whatsoever to indicate any differences at all.

I got a lil irritated as well and become frustrated when people mindlessly repeat meaningless phrases simply because the "Messiah of gaming" used it. Subsumption AI doesnt even make sense to me, what specifically does subsumption mean in this regard (because the translation of the term leaves me as confused as before). CRoberts at his finest. Refuses to use well known terms but insists of adding his special "Roberts touch". Bravo.

 

[Almighty Bob]

I think this too.
Why should i use a webcam when i haver everybody i play with in teamspeak and can just talk casually with them doesnt matter where they are. Its a RP gimick only a handfull will use, and the moment it glitches out will never be used again because the RP guys wont be able to stay "in character" when suddenly tentacles grow out of the faces due to network problems or glitches.

Its a gimmick without any real adventages and from the presentation it also seems like you needed that special webcam anyway. Just so other can see the funny faces you make...it gives you nothing....and others a laugh. So you buy it to make a fool out of yourself.

Well its optional, but you can use your own webcam and it will work as long as it is quick enough and has enough light on your face. But yea take it or leave it, No need to hate it though its optional

 

[Slythe]

Re: Subsumption AI.

It's a poor name but I think what they're trying to describe is an overarching system of AI systems: So the pathfinding AI, the targeting AI, the daily-task AI for background NPCs, etc, are all subsumed into the "Subsumption AI" system.

 

[Mole HD]

If I had to use 4 words to describe what I saw from CR and what he showed in the presentation... 'The Emperor's New Clothes' would about sum it up.

Google 'Hans Christian Andersen' if that's too obscure and you've never read a book...