Star Citizen Thread v6

[Dogeh]

You're right, Fritz. The bugs are not the issue with SC. Every game has them.
And it's not that some bugs are four are five years old. The hope is that they will gradually disappear as the game nears release.
It's not the developers who work hard to realize Crobbers unrealistic dreams. They are doing their best with the limited tools they have. Crobbers keeps talking about amazing new technology that really isn't there, especially when the devs have to work with an old engine.

I believe most of the problems in this game are to do with the feeling that the wool is being pulled over our eyes, the 'smoke and mirrors' that they all talk about. The sense that Crobbers and his people are trying to fool us into believing his dream is being created before our very eyes.

And those of us that are sceptical are all looking at the SC faithful like people who know how magic tricks work. The faithful are staring in awe at Chris' amazing feats of conjuring while the rest of us are seeing through the tricks and charades.

Gamescom was just a giant script demo and they desperately tried to fool us into thinking this was 3.1 or a facsimile of 3.1...just like they've done since the KS.

And people don't like being fooled.

 

[Dogeh]

Doesn't mean he cant speak to others.

Not if Sandi had her way....

 

[Zyll Goliat]

I was talking in GENERAL about Crytek programmers.....when I sad for all those years,I mean it for all those years as the engine exist.....There is no game in this engine that is popular as multiplayer twich shooter,even big hits like Crysis when it comes to the MP was very problematic and with low numbers of players per map you will still experience lags&overall bad mp experience....hmm....is that sounds familiar[wacko]......

 

[Agony_Aunt]

It is how development works in big production multi-studio AAA budget games.

Ah, so you work for one of these companies and have first hand experience of this? Because i know Slopey does have real experience, and i have real experience, and i've heard lots of other people who have real experience all say the same things about how SC is being developed.

I've not heard anyone who i know to have real world experience say Star Citizen's development is doing it the right way. Yet lots of randoms on the internet, who naturally do not have any programming credentials (because obviously can't go around asking them to prove it easily) seem to think because CIG say they are doing things the right way means they are actually doing things the right way.

AAA gaming development isn't usually a great model for development anyway. Its well known in the industry that the gaming industry is one of the worst to work in with bad practices and bad management commonplace. I suppose CR is just keeping up with tradition

 

[Cotic]

I disagree. This interview gives an idea of his grandiose claims https://www.redbull.com/int-en/star-marine-interview-with-chris-roberts

 

[milligna]

But that's not true. Where does anyone go on about the risk? It's mostly four years of complaints about his continued lies and incompetence in the service of sheer greed. That doesn't sound quite as impressive as drawing complaints because you're "too ambitious and risky", I guess. As if we can't handle the full scope and fidelity of his all-encompassing vision of ripping off the momentarily trendy features of a bunch of other games and commanding his ever-rotating team of doomed devs to glue them together!

Nah. It's more the incompetent, proven liar part.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Ambition isn't magic word that makes everything right. I have ambition for lot of things. However I don't go claim that I will create best emergency sim or whatever...despite having good solid foundation and ideas how to make it.

Ambition and claims are as good as your delivery. If delivery fails flat...then all experience starts to sour.

So no, no one's saying Chris is too ambitious. I, however, am saying that he is too ambitious for his capability to deliver. He just can't do it. And that's whole issue. I have been saying with other project manager SC might have been at 3.0 alpha stage for 2 years now. Chris could easily stay creator status and push his ideas out, with solid team around him to realize and figure out how to make it work.

He just fails on basic level of understanding what makes things work. Just gives you idea what amazing flukes his previous projects have been.

 

[amigacooke]

I'm sure it's been said before, but the less 'game' you have, the less it will impinge on backers dreams of what the game will become. All KickStarters sell dreams, some of which will not come to pass (ED: offline single player, macOS Horizons, etc.).

 

[PiLhEaD]

Sadly, but imho predictably, Star Citizen is showing all the signs of being another Freelancer.

The only differences this time being: the funding model means that for a while the project can continue under Roberts' control; and there's no Microsoft in the wings to pick up the pieces. Here's a little slice of deja vu, from June 2000:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/article_29857

Anyone else humming the Propellorheads track, History Repeating...?

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

.

So they got money, developers, backers and nothing to show for it. How that's good again?

.

Exactly.

.

Frontier and David seems to have a) done their homework to actually deliver game (at least it's 1.0 and 2.0) for starters and b) certainly spoke about crowdfinancing ED *before* Chris announced his Kickstarter for Star Citizen.

People have been excited about potential of Elite 4 way before Chris even had his failures at Hollywood.

 

[Zetta]

Taking three and a half to four years to build a massive title just seems like a huge amount of effort. There needs to be a better way to do it.

Oh dear....

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I'm sure it's been said before, but the less 'game' you have, the less it will impinge on backers dreams of what the game will become. All KickStarters sell dreams, some of which will not come to pass (ED: offline single player, macOS Horizons, etc.).

offtopic side note - with Metal 2 Horizons is possible, although good question is FD willing to invest to write another render for MacOS.

 

[Red Anders]

Oh dear....

That is his problem in a nutshell. He's been away from gaming for 10 years and more, yet on his return he seems to have taken the attitude of 'Wow I can't believe what these noobs are doing, good job I've decided to be a complete failure in Hollywood return to the industry to bathe them all in the warm light of my genius and shake things up.'

Magical thinking abounds.

I assume his better way is taking seven or eight years to do it. Maybe ten.

Obviously I have no more idea how relieable the Agent's latest comments are than anybody else. What I do know is that 'mirror' rant reads entirely believably and also fits exactly with everything I have ever read about the way Roberts is, so it's either well-written and credible fiction, or broadly accurate.

 

[Rolan]

No John, that's just part of the background story or details of that place/moon/whatever. Nothing of that mean that in 3.0 you will freeze to death if you go outside in a normal spacesuit. More so... it just says that you will die if you go aoutside without a spacesuit, not an special kind of spacesuit and you may need a spacesuit anyway because space does not have a lot of oxigen that, like I said already, in 3.0 is the only survival part that we know of. And obviously you will need a spacesuit in space, but for story, for the background story I'm sure that some people in other places may be able to go outside for some time without an spacesuit but oxigen in some way.

In fact the only part about that link that talks abut anything similar(survival) is the airlock and room system, nothing related to temperature.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

That is his problem in a nutshell. He's been away from gaming for 10 years and more, yet on his return he seems to have taken the attitude of 'Wow I can't believe what these noobs are doing, good job I've decided to be a complete failure in Hollywood return to the industry to bathe them all in the warm light of my genius and shake things up.'

Magical thinking abounds.

I have long said that he is capable to sell dreams for gamers because he is dreamer himself.

He has little to no clue how to software delivery logistics work.

All those pesky executive producers who saying this and this is not possible or just too much cost for little benefit can go and [censor] themselves

If more serious, yes it is always a struggle and always there will be developers who have right idea and plausable implementation but producers want to steer safe - and there will be dreamers like Chris who just don't know when and how to stop and have to make their dreams work in real life.

Those in the middle are usually less spoken about because well, they actually make games, publish them, gather critical acclaim and move on.

 

[Skizomeuh]

I have long said that he is capable to sell dreams for gamers because he is dreamer himself.

He has little to no clue how to software delivery logistics work.

So basically his neocortex is deceiving both his limbic and reptile complexes. He's not a conman, he's a victim too!

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

So basically his neocortex is deceiving both his limbic and reptile complexes. He's not a conman, he's a victim too!

Drama of this story is that I think Chris really is just stubborn than conman. Does not mean he does not deceive people - he does - but it feels to me that he thinks it is for good cause. That breaktrough is just around the corner. And this is something I have seen in multiple startups. No one wants to realise they have failed. This is something of 'can't fail, mush push trough' mindset that is mixed in here. Problem is, sometimes it's just not enough and there are fundamental problems.

 

[Neo-ST]

Oh dear....

Pity.

Spoiler

 

[Winterwalker]

Drama of this story is that I think Chris really is just stubborn than conman. Does not mean he does not deceive people - he does - but it feels to me that he thinks it is for good cause. That breaktrough is just around the corner. And this is something I have seen in multiple startups. No one wants to realise they have failed. This is something of 'can't fail, mush push trough' mindset that is mixed in here. Problem is, sometimes it's just not enough and there are fundamental problems.

+1
Cor .. it's the Tragedy of Darth Vader all over again!
Darth Roberts will take care of you - and it might even explain fidelitous midichlorians.
Buy a Jar Jar?

 

[Cmdr Snuffler]

You are absolutely deluded. As the Lead Architect for a large international software company I can assure you I have never in 20 years of programming and architecture come close to spouting anything remotely resembling the utter rubbish and lies CR does. Never!!!
You have absolutely 0 idea about software development. 0! Please stop pretending you do and stop telling people in the industry they don't.
I love the way you completely ignore what people say...when the people in question work in the industry. The mind boggles.
The only person you believe is CR. The only person who tells the truth is CR. There is simply no point in having a discussion with you when you are so blinkered.
I bet you and Adam Savage have the same catch phrase:
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"

Part of me actually feels a little sorry for you because you believe any tripe that comes from CR and CIG.