8K 200 degree FOV room scale VR.

[Kinky Jalepeno]

Surely the issue here is, in reality, nothing can power that display?

Until we have some clever upscaling, or only rendering high detail where you're looking it's all a bit pointless?

They cheat a little, only one eye renders and displays at a time which alternates at 90 - 120Hz (if my memory is correct) but this has led some to say the display is dark so they are going to have to address that. The other thing is they don't render at the full resolutuion, but render lower then upscale to the panel just like a 4K TV does with a 1080P program.

I'm interested in anything that improves visuals but can't see me buying into this without trying it first.

 

[Strife]

They cheat a little, only one eye renders and displays at a time which alternates at 90 - 120Hz (if my memory is correct) but this has led some to say the display is dark so they are going to have to address that. The other thing is they don't render at the full resolutuion, but render lower then upscale to the panel just like a 4K TV does with a 1080P program.

I'm interested in anything that improves visuals but can't see me buying into this without trying it first.

I understand this as working in a similar way to active 3d glasses, alternate frame sequencing to give an 8k effect while driving a 4k image (or less and up-scaled)
What I would like to know is, what happens with the eye not getting the update, with 3d glasses this is a shutter effect where it blanks the vision, im wonder if with the 8k headset the previous frame has displayed twice and it alternates the frame updates.
To be fair I have never liked the idea of active 3d glasses with its alternating shutter and im not sure if having the frame displayed twice and alternated between eyes is any better or worse. But i'm curious to find out.

 

[vic]

I'm buying into this just for the 200deg FOV alone!
I have a rift and I'm tired of binocular vision!

 

[Flimley]

Looks like VR will be super clear with this PiMax. Only problem is, we need to be running a GTX1280Ti. ....And that hasn't been invented yet !

Flimley

 

[YinYin]

Looks like VR will be super clear with this PiMax. Only problem is, we need to be running a GTX1280Ti. ....And that hasn't been invented yet !

Considering they've got eye tracking in there, detail only needs to be drawn at the users focus. Requirements can drop a whole lot if software supports it.

 

[Ashnak]

Considering they've got eye tracking in there, detail only needs to be drawn at the users focus. Requirements can drop a whole lot if software supports it.

Like you said: if.

The questions are:
- does "the software" (whichever level this needs to be implemented - driver would be my best guess) support it?
- in this case, what are the (additional) requirements on CPU power (assuming that all the footwork related to eye tracking and rendering decisions is performed on the CPU)? I know that the Tobii EyeX will grab up to 20% of my CPU if I run it. With the dedicated ASIC in the follow up versions, that drops dramatically, but does that headset have these ASICs for processing the eye tracking camera, or do they run the eye tracking on the CPU?

As it is, ED is pretty much maxing out the hardware on a quad core 4GHz i5/GTX1080 setup. A current higher end setup, not (massively) overclocked, might just get perhaps 50% more CPU power - will that be enough?

And finally - how will those 200° fov look like through my eyes? With that large fov, the lenses might need 3d adjustment to get it right for any non-average user.

I'm sceptical - but would love to try one.

 

[Cruise]

I have the "BE" edition, not 4k, but still higher resolution than the rift or vive, 90hz refresh and no ghosting or blur and recent firmware/drivers have pretty much eliminated the only issue that it had which was motion drift. It's a solid product for Elite now --at least it has been for me.

I think this could be my next VR unit(currently have a Vive), looking forward to their 8k model.
The immersion with VR is fantastic, but I want a higher resolution/better image for ED.
I would be intrigued to know a bit more about your ED experience with your BE model Loribee.
07 Cmdr

 

[loribee]

I think this could be my next VR unit(currently have a Vive), looking forward to their 8k model.
The immersion with VR is fantastic, but I want a higher resolution/better image for ED.
I would be intrigued to know a bit more about your ED experience with your BE model Loribee.
07 Cmdr

Sure Thing!

At first I was not even aware that I had the BE version. I had initially hooked up my PSVR to the PC using trinus to see what the game in VR actually looked like. I figured I already had the PSVR, so why not.

Using the PSVR really took the game to a whole different level, but I felt that the low resolution of the headset made the text that Elite uses a little bit hard to read.

After watching a 'review' of the unit from the perspective of Elite on YouTube, I picked up the Pimax 4k from Gearbest and was amazed at the difference in quality between that and the PSVR (disclosure: I've not tried the Vive or the Rift with VR, and only recently tried the Rift for all of 10 minutes in a local Best Buy)

The only issue I had with it was the god-awful drifting I was experiencing. I setup a button on my HOTAS to recenter the headset and found myself pressing it ... a lot!!

After trying a few drivers I eventually came on the one that seemed to make the drifting happen a lot less .. in my case 1.2.89 driver --I just followed the Pimax forums which are super helpful and have a lot of people willing to give tips and share feedback)

Using that version all but eliminated the drifting issue - I was more than happy with how the headset was working with ED.

I then started reading posts on the Pimax forums about the BE headset and I discovered that I had been shipped one of these by mistake. I did contact Pimax support and they indeed confirmed it via an email, with the offer to replace the unit for a 4k one, or gave me the option to keep the BE unit, which they told me was better for gaming anyway (due to the increased refresh rate of the BE unit)

I opted to keep the BE unit because quite honestly, I was super happy with how it was working out for me. I am using an NVIDIA 1080 with everything Maxed up 1.45 supersample in Pimax VR settings 0.65 SS in Elite, with HMD image quality set to 1.75. SMAA and everything but jet cones at high or ultra settings. I *can* dial up the Super sampling and it looks even more amazing, but i get this black lag at the edges of the screen if I move my head quickly -- probably the GPU can't keep up with the render and is dropping, so I just keep it where it is (Look for a post from Eno on this forum about Elite and Pimax, he gave me some great pointers)

I will say that Pimax are constantly working on their driver and learning and iterating and polishing all the time. This I feel bodes well for the 8k unit, as I am sure they will take all this polish and learning and roll it onto the new headset.

So yeah, I am more than pleased with the BE headset for Elite, the only issue is that you can't actually buy these!! Pimax sells them as a "Business Edition" and not directly to consumers, and it's apparently more expensive than the 4k unit - I think because of the OLED display instead of the LED one that the 4k uses. You might try contacting them and asking if they would be willing to sell you a BE one - worth a shot

 

[Cruise]

Sure Thing!

At first I was not even aware that I had the BE version. I had initially hooked up my PSVR to the PC using trinus to see what the game in VR actually looked like. I figured I already had the PSVR, so why not.

Using the PSVR really took the game to a whole different level, but I felt that the low resolution of the headset made the text that Elite uses a little bit hard to read.

After watching a 'review' of the unit from the perspective of Elite on YouTube, I picked up the Pimax 4k from Gearbest and was amazed at the difference in quality between that and the PSVR (disclosure: I've not tried the Vive or the Rift with VR, and only recently tried the Rift for all of 10 minutes in a local Best Buy)

The only issue I had with it was the god-awful drifting I was experiencing. I setup a button on my HOTAS to recenter the headset and found myself pressing it ... a lot!!

After trying a few drivers I eventually came on the one that seemed to make the drifting happen a lot less .. in my case 1.2.89 driver --I just followed the Pimax forums which are super helpful and have a lot of people willing to give tips and share feedback)

Using that version all but eliminated the drifting issue - I was more than happy with how the headset was working with ED.

I then started reading posts on the Pimax forums about the BE headset and I discovered that I had been shipped one of these by mistake. I did contact Pimax support and they indeed confirmed it via an email, with the offer to replace the unit for a 4k one, or gave me the option to keep the BE unit, which they told me was better for gaming anyway (due to the increased refresh rate of the BE unit)

I opted to keep the BE unit because quite honestly, I was super happy with how it was working out for me. I am using an NVIDIA 1080 with everything Maxed up 1.45 supersample in Pimax VR settings 0.65 SS in Elite, with HMD image quality set to 1.75. SMAA and everything but jet cones at high or ultra settings. I *can* dial up the Super sampling and it looks even more amazing, but i get this black lag at the edges of the screen if I move my head quickly -- probably the GPU can't keep up with the render and is dropping, so I just keep it where it is (Look for a post from Eno on this forum about Elite and Pimax, he gave me some great pointers)

I will say that Pimax are constantly working on their driver and learning and iterating and polishing all the time. This I feel bodes well for the 8k unit, as I am sure they will take all this polish and learning and roll it onto the new headset.

So yeah, I am more than pleased with the BE headset for Elite, the only issue is that you can't actually buy these!! Pimax sells them as a "Business Edition" and not directly to consumers, and it's apparently more expensive than the 4k unit - I think because of the OLED display instead of the LED one that the 4k uses. You might try contacting them and asking if they would be willing to sell you a BE one - worth a shot

Hi Loribee, thanks for that info, very helpful.
I'm going to have a look on you tube, & the forums. Might hang on for the 8k version......but I'm a bit impatient so might not.

 

[popuptoaster]

I only heard bad things about the 4k pimax. I heard it drifts in terms of tracking and has bad ghosting and motion blur issues.

I had a Pimax 2k and now have an oculus rift, the pimax does drift a lot and its often a pain to get working right with different games but its picture quality is easily better than the Oculus, not that the OR is bad and once i've had it on for a couple of minutes I stop noticing it anyway, but both screen door and ghosting are more noticeable to start with I find the motion blur to be about the same.

I would be perfectly happy to have the Pimax screens in the OR headset to be honest.

 

[Kaltern]

Was under the impression that while the screens are '4k', the rendering resolution is normal 1080 (or whatever they decide to use) upscaled to fill the smaller pixels - this would be a superb thing as it isn't really the resolution that's the issue, but the SDE and gap between pixels - both of which the 4k screens should eliminate almost completely - without increasing the GPU load.

In theory, these should still run on a GTX 970.

 

[Cruise]

Was under the impression that while the screens are '4k', the rendering resolution is normal 1080 (or whatever they decide to use) upscaled to fill the smaller pixels - this would be a superb thing as it isn't really the resolution that's the issue, but the SDE and gap between pixels - both of which the 4k screens should eliminate almost completely - without increasing the GPU load.

In theory, these should still run on a GTX 970.

That's interesting, I think I will hang on for the 8k model. It sounds like it could be quite an improvement over my Vive.

 

[Kerrash]

I would be cautiously pessimistic here.
It's great to see competition in the space but I would not buy one without first being able to try it for myself.

 

[VR Mr Teatime]

I would be cautiously pessimistic here.
It's great to see competition in the space but I would not buy one without first being able to try it for myself.

Agree although I'm pretty much sold on going for the 8K at kickstarter. It can't be as bad as pre-ordering a jpg concept art spaceship can it?

BTW - Norm and Jeremy from Tested will be publishing their 1st impressions video on the 8K demo they had - citation:

[video=youtube_share;hpRWcOqMoPo]https://youtu.be/hpRWcOqMoPo[/video]

Goto 1h20m19s - not sure why I can't get the time bit to work on my post.

From what I've read and the videos up so far, plus the excellent feedback on the PiMAX forums, I would say so long as their panel manufacturer comes through for them for this new low latency LCD (there will also be a "5K" OLED for those that want that), they sort out the 2xHDMI for 1xDP1.4 cables and the competition don't "play dirty", they'll be a real contender in the VR space.

 

[Cmdr Marc Hamilton]

I’ll hope they’ll give it an DP, too. My 1080 only has two HDMI-ports, one of them is needed for my TV… Of course I could use an additional adapter for it. But anyway, HDMI really isn’t up-to-date for such an technology. It is fairly sufficient for the Pimax 4k, but would be quite a minus point for the 8k. And I can’t imagine, 1x DP would create such extra costs over 2x HDMI, especially when talking about googles which will cost 650-750 US-$. But who knows... Intel is saving a couple of Cents since Ivy Bridge using thermally conductive paste instead of tin-solder... :rolleyes

 

[VR Mr Teatime]

Update for what its worth from the PiMAX forums:

The first version of the 8K will be upscaling 2x1440p to 2x4K (the panels' resolution) and won't do native 2x4K as the HMD's chipset looks like it can't handle that throughput on a single DP1.4 cable. They are looking to offer an upgrade when the next version of the 8K is out, but that will likely require 2xDP1.4 cables eta for that will be Q2/3 next year.

Whilst a bit disappointing, the specs will still be above the Rift/Vive res/FoV, so I am likely still backing it, as a board/cable upgrade in the future isn't too much of a chore, plus the GPUs will only just be able to handle the native res anyway i.e. 1080ti or above.

 

[shadragon]

Surely the issue here is, in reality, nothing can power that display?

Until we have some clever upscaling, or only rendering high detail where you're looking it's all a bit pointless?

Yup.

I backed the FOVE. I won't be KS'ing any other VR gear. When it comes out as a commercial product, I'll look at it then.

 

[Kerrash]

...
https://youtu.be/hpRWcOqMoPo

Goto 1h20m19s - ...

Thank you. I am subbed but have not had time to watch this one yet.
I guess we will find out when this week's episode of projections is posted.

 

[Cmdr Marc Hamilton]

@Mr Teatime: Thanks for the update. What I read out of this that at least Pimax is going for DP anyway. So the first consumer version of the 8k won't come with 2x HDMI which already is some improvement. Under these circumstances I think I'll go for it anyway. If the 2-cable-version comes mid 2018, I still can sell the first one and buy the updated one.

 

[Gunner Deckard]

Nice thing is you can back the Kickstarter by just getting the 8K headset without the peripherals if you have vive lighthouses and controllers which can be used with the 8K headset. As long as it isn't to expensive I'm in.