Thargoid Material CGs: Why the easymode options?!?!

[Jmanis]

Is that why we have small Corrosion Proof Cargo Racks and Obsidian Orbital is subpar as a station? Because previous CGs involving them didn't hit a high enough tier? I always wondered that.

Yes. The CG for that was to haul Meta-alloys. As these are as time-consuming to get as the Thargoid materials for this CG, but FD set the goal levels for a "typical" trade CG where you would typically haul hundreds of tonnes of goods every few minutes, we didn't get very far... plus the entire event was a logoff/logon-fest, because barnacle sites only spawned 2 meta alloys at a time.

It feels like they've "thought of that" this time round by introducing the standard market commodities as relevant to the CG, but all that's done is made it pointless from a contribution-perspective. Some players shipping explosives are already at 12,000t shipped, and yet the CGs have only just past tier 1. This is fine, day 1 and all of the CG, but considering you might get close to 500t of the Thargoid materials shipped if you spent an entire day collecting them, you can see how pointless that contribution will be to the overall success of the CG.

Yes. Not knowing the rewards or benefits of the higher tiers has caused this cause of the rewards only being ever listed as "global rewards". It's really frustrating to know what to bother with and what to ignore.

From what I can tell... the global rewards are the availability of the new thargoid weapons/sensors in different economies/stations. Right now Tier 1 reward means they are only available at Surface Military outposts.

 

[Jmanis]

1. The CG offers a way for people new to the Thargoid storyline to begin to engage with it.

No arguments here.

2. The alternative commodities allow people without Horizons to engage with it.

Not really relevant.

Instead of market-available goods, they could've asked for Unknown Artefacts/Probes. Both of these are available without Horizons and offer the same logistical challenges as US materials.

3. What's to say the Engineers won't be adapting human technologies to work against Thargoids? (explosives with a dash of unknown DNA mixed in ..ie. unknown technologes not compatable with human ships but hybrid systems are.)

No arguments here, except they should've done it as two separate CGs then divided by the type of goods, or as MadDogMurdock suggested, make the CG require particular amounts of each type. Only one thing matters here. Total volume of target goods shipped. So of course people will pick the thing they can ship in thousands-of-tonnes an hour volumes over the 50t an hour variant, because the former helps the CG much more than the latter. Which is dumb considering the focus of the CG is on the latter goods.

If your goal is for the CG to succeed as good as possible, there is literally no reason to ship the Thargoid materials.

4. The 2.4 beta offered a decal for people involved in the CG so there is obviously a way for |FD to search a database of participants. As part of ED development in general - or this storyline specifically - I wouldn't rule out something going on under the hood.

This is kinda just a "god moves in mysterious ways" point... I don't really understand it's relevance to the post.

 

[Winterwalker]

It feels like they've "thought of that" this time round by introducing the standard market commodities as relevant to the CG, but all that's done is made it pointless from a contribution-perspective. Some players shipping explosives are already at 12,000t shipped, and yet the CGs have only just past tier 1. This is fine, day 1 and all of the CG, but considering you might get close to 500t of the Thargoid materials shipped if you spent an entire day collecting them, you can see how pointless that contribution will be to the overall success of the CG.

5. Thargoid materials probably give a better trading profit per run ... explosives aren't a very profitable commodity.

aka. I get what you're saying OP but not everyone plays exclusively for money and we can't really comment until knowing what actually happens at the end of the CG. For all I know anyway - 100,000 tons of explosives might only put you in the top 50% but delivering 1t Thargoid materials might put you straight into the top 10.

 

[Jmanis]

5. Thargoid materials probably give a better trading profit per run ... explosives aren't a very profitable commodity.

aka. I get what you're saying OP but not everyone plays exclusively for money and we can't really comment until knowing what actually happens at the end of the CG. For all I know anyway - 100,000 tons of explosives might only put you in the top 50% but delivering 1t Thargoid materials might put you straight into the top 10.

This isn't about money at all, and I'm going to come out right now and say without doubt shipping 1t of thargoid materials won't do anything of the sort like you suggest. There's simply no precedent, again, it's just appealing to the gods which is an unarguable point.

The CG could pay out no individual credit rewards, and all contributions are donations with no reward, and then you'd only get people participating who want the CG to succeed. The best way to do this would still with plain old commodities from markets and not touching the Thargoid mats.

 

[Winterwalker]

This isn't about money at all, and I'm going to come out right now and say without doubt shipping 1t of thargoid materials won't do anything of the sort like you suggest. There's simply no precedent, again, it's just appealing to the gods which is an unarguable point.

The CG could pay out no individual credit rewards, and all contributions are donations with no reward, and then you'd only get people participating who want the CG to succeed. The best way to do this would still with plain old commodities from markets and not touching the Thargoid mats.

Like I say .. I think over thinking, and maybe worrying a little unecessarily. Neither fo us know for sure whether any hidden payout for Thargoid mats, giving a bonus over the explosives / computer components, so that's finger in the air but it is technically feasible (I don't know much about Tharg materials - are they a rare trading good?). Engaging with the CG might lead some people to ask, "where would I get Thargoid materials from anyway" so they might haul purely for interest and the point about the tech being developed, being 'mostly explosives' with a homeopathy level 'touch of unknown stuff added' still stands really. Elephant in the room being .. Thargoids are coming and we're all going to die horribly anyway.

 

[Martind Forlon]

+rep added to OP. Awesome idea how 'new' cmdrs or cndrs with small ships can have at least some chance for compete with poorly equipped (defense) trade cutters and also equally contribute for CG success. It looks also quite easy for implementation (well, I hope so).

 

[Layne Vakarian]

For what it's worth I'm with Jmanis here. As it stands I can't see any reason at all for anybody to ship Thargoidy-bits. Not if the aim of participation is to assist in achieving top tier success. Well, okay, maybe money, maybe personal kudos, but surely the point of a CG is for the community to get more 'stuff' and that means top tier if we're to call it properly 'done'.

Too late now of course. It is what it is. Maybe in future we'll get a Thargoidy-bits CG, one with realistic targets that might be achieved by dedicated Commanders in specialised ships. Not for me actually, but why not?

PS, Here, have some Rep

 

[Goose4291]

In a nutshell, because trade CGs seem to be aimed at the min/max cr/hr types who after nearly three years still think flying a unshielded type 6 in open is a good idea.

 

[racer1]

Agree with OP, the easy versus hard items makes it a bit silly.

 

[CzłowiekImadło]

I have shipped almost 40t of Relics yesterday purely for 'lore' reasons, as this contribution will give me almost no payout from CG and certainly means nothing in terms of CG progression. It is really silly to have it this way. As many stated before, alien materials being valued more, having quotas for each type of commodity, or having separate CGs would be much better. Eh.

What also concerns me, is that new toys from these CGs will be available only on surface military bases. If this does not change, does that mean people without horizons are going to have a bad time? Being attacked by bugs without the proper weapons and defences, becasue they can't land at a base that sells them?

 

[Vasious]

I just assumed it was a way for Non-Horizons Players to join in

 

[tafkabb]

I support this. I activated a Thargoid base without corrosion resistant racking, which was a fun evening. Let's have a truly challenging CG, which can be completed with skill and thought rather than just a big ship

 

[Ninj]

In my experience, no-one will ever be happy.

If it was left to the alien materials only we would see the Palin CG all over again where we ended up with 2T cargo racks as the max reward.

Or not getting half of the huge weapons due to not completing the 2.1 CG.

But don't let facts get in the way of your whinge!

 

[danubezoe]

In my experience, no-one will ever be happy.

If it was left to the alien materials only we would see the Palin CG all over again where we ended up with 2T cargo racks as the max reward.

Or not getting half of the huge weapons due to not completing the 2.1 CG.

But don't let facts get in the way of your whinge!

If you read the above you'd see that the crcr CG actually had ordinary trade CG goal levels. (post 21 by jmanis here). With goal levels adjusted we could do this without mundane commodities.
cheers
DZ

 

[Goose4291]

It'd probably be more interesting if CG participation was calculated by cr profit as opposed to simply units shipped, for this reason

 

[NeilF]

What matters in a general CG to a player is one of two things:
- Seeing the CG succeed at the highest tier; and/or
- Getting the biggest reward.

Ummm... On a side note... Shouldn't enjoyable/rewarding gameplay feature in there somewhere?

Personally, I'm rather frustrated that we're still playing in the same depth of mechanics for CGs as 2+ years ago. Clearly CGs are a popular aspect of the game, and it's shame more involved gameplay and mechanics isn't being wrapped up into them.

The stakes are high on the outcomes of these CGs, with anti-thargoid weaponry and sensors on the plate of rewards.

The stakes are not high. The equipment will appear no matter what.

 

[CMDR MRMAURICE]

I have shipped almost 40t of Relics yesterday purely for 'lore' reasons, as this contribution will give me almost no payout from CG and certainly means nothing in terms of CG progression. It is really silly to have it this way. As many stated before, alien materials being valued more, having quotas for each type of commodity, or having separate CGs would be much better. Eh.

What also concerns me, is that new toys from these CGs will be available only on surface military bases. If this does not change, does that mean people without horizons are going to have a bad time? Being attacked by bugs without the proper weapons and defences, becasue they can't land at a base that sells them?

Horizons isn't expensive and I'm assuming the CG is gonna hit a much higher tier, if not finish. Plus the thargoid commodities that are needed can only be collected with horizons. If the Tech we make out of this is only available to people with horizons then it's time for an upgrade for people that don't have it. It's been out nearly 2 years now.

Not sure I agree OP with most of what you said but I get what you're saying. I think the commodities that we have to get make sense for the goodies we are gonna get (check last night's livestream) but you do make some really good points on how to improve CGs in general tbh

 

[Jmanis]

In my experience, no-one will ever be happy.

If it was left to the alien materials only we would see the Palin CG all over again where we ended up with 2T cargo racks as the max reward.

Or not getting half of the huge weapons due to not completing the 2.1 CG.

But don't let facts get in the way of your whinge!

If you read the above you'd see that the crcr CG actually had ordinary trade CG goal levels. (post 21 by jmanis here). With goal levels adjusted we could do this without mundane commodities.
cheers
DZ

What Danubezoe said.

The Palin Meta-Alloy CG went belly-up because it was the first time FD had done a "sell commodity" CG where the commodities couldn't be purchased off the market, and they completely booched the numbers. FD have also booched it the other way before, making CGs that finished way too quickly, during which they tweaked up the numbers to give more tiers or higher goals.

FD have control over this, and they've done a poor job of this one.

Why are explosives, which are typically part of missile ordnance, stupid? How is even asking this question, right after a trailer comes out expressly showing and advanced new missile system, complete with explosions, from explosives, confusing, or easy mode?

For the love of.. I don't care if they do, or don't include purchasable goods. Arguing against an actual, logical component (versus the daft selection for other trade CGs) is just illogical, puritanical nonsense. <3

I've never said Explosives shouldn't be part of the CG goal. You are absolutely correct that it makes sense. What *doesn't* make sense is that the CG whose primary description is to seek Thargoid is best satisfied by.... not shipping Thargoid items.

MadDogMurdock's suggestion is the best to address your concerns, that *at least*, say, 500,000t of Explosives should be shipped, but if, say, 1000t of Thargoid materials *aren't* received, the CG should fail.

Ummm... On a side note... Shouldn't enjoyable/rewarding gameplay feature in there somewhere?

People talk about the challenge of long-range hauling, but in my opinion it has nothing on the challenge of long-range hauling dangerous cargo. Without CRCRs, any more than 20 units in the hold can deliver a killing blow to your canopy, putting you on the clock. You can dock and repair sure, but all that introduces more time for your cargo to hit the hatch and jet into space, and also decreases the efficiency of your run. My record is around 50 with no CRCRs at the moment. It's really fun stuff.

Yes, there it is already for you

What's not fun is putting in all that effort to get 50t of goods, and going back to the CG and getting a slap in the face with a big wet fish because the commander who shipped 2000t of explosives has contributed 40 times more to the goal.

Again, I can get alien stuff when I feel like, and shipping large quantities is fun... I don't need a CG to get that experience. What's fun in a CG is feeling like you're making a meaningful contribution to the CG, and you can't get that in this situation..

 

[Vardaugas]

I had the same thoughts as OP, so I agree with his sentiment. FDev should add a modifier to commodities handed in for a CG so they can be weighted differently when it is appropriate. This will add another factor for players to evaluate when choosing which item they trade in, going either for more profits or for a higher/faster placing in the top list. Right now, you always go for the highest profits. The stations from Kamadhenu CG will be build in gold, palladium and beryllium. I am pretty sure nothing else was hauled. Having more factors to consider will make for more interesting choices and for a more engaging event.

 

[Cosmo]

Many people don't want more Grind. So by making it easy we can finish it faster.