General / Off-Topic More than 50 killed in Las Vegas terror attack

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Deleted member 115407

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Minonian said:
If this is your freedom? Than you can keep yourself, but you can be sure as hell we don't want it, and rather find our own.
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lol - I wasn't aware that we were trying to impose our brand of civics on Hungary.
 

Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
Adept said:
But this is already not the case.

To match the "militia" gear with present day equivalents, I'd want a good assault- or battle rifle, some hand grenades, proper ballistic protection and an RPG-7 / LAW eqivalent light weight rocket launcher.

Oh, and I'd also need a number of similarily equipped mates, one of which carries a light machine gun and another with at least a Stinger for some anti-air protection.

But guess what? A lot of that stuff is such that Uncle Sam wouldn't let me have it even if I was a citizen. Maybe the militia angle is actually . These days there's a standing army and a police force which have taken over the "security of the state" duties.
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Ordnance /= arms.
 

Minonian

Banned
Minonian
Zaphod Hawke said:
This type of post is why I used to think you were a bot. Nobody here is trying to shove American laws or ideals down your throat. Feel free to find whatever way you choose.

However, the rest of your post makes little sense. Are you talking about an "ace pilot" in ED? I really can't tell. But you seem quite proud of beating him up repeatedly. In any case, it sounds like you're talking about a conflict within a video game, whether ED or no, it makes little difference. Then you go on to talk about the ace pilot ending up on a no-fly list. Which I don't think we have in ED. Can you clarify please?

And what are you saying with the "American guns = freedom religion" statement? Those two things are addressed in separate constitutional amendments.
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And this is where you are at mistaken. Every time america do something regarding to world politics. he acts based on his world view / philosophy and this is his philosophy. it can't be anything else.

Also sorry, but we talking about a matter what more than a decade old, it's echoes still not silenced, but i rather keep to myself the details. (

As a last word in this matter i don't and can't wait to change you boys mind or make you see the light, i will only get back to this matters when something new emerges because we talked out everything what we currently can, and until something new comes we just repeating ourselves. And honestly i just don't want to waste my time to this.

And yes it was "just a game" until it's grown larger than you can possibly imagine. after you spent enough time with us you will going to understand why? Until than? :)

Fly fast, fly well 07
 
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Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
Zaphod Hawke said:
Technically, Adept has a point here. Arms as defined for the purpose of the second amendment are anything that can be picked up and used as a weapon. The fact he is (deliberately?) ignoring is that we can own any of these things he mentions. They just require additional vetting and approval. Although I've never heard of a civilian owning a Stinger missile system. As I understand it, they are quite expensive.
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Exploding missile is a flying bomb, ie ordnance.
RPG is a grenade, same thing.
 

jmg

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Minonian said:
this is the world problem with the USA.
Your twisted imaginations of freedom.
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we will assimilate you last. :)

And, to go back on topic, hearts and prayers to our brothers and sisters out west. This is a terrible, horrible act, and I hope not an indication of what this world is coming to. Paris, Spain, now the U.S.. We should all stop arguing, and start praying this isn't an indication of a global trend.

.. and I hope no one lost a loved one.
 
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Bob Lighthouse

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Bob Lighthouse
@ Zaphod Hawke, and not that I don't agree with your reading, I do, I was just explaining the apparent contradiction when such things are made illegal.
 
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Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
jmg said:
...start praying this isn't an indication of a global trend.
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As I keep repeating to all the Henny Pennys, it's not even a local one.
Quite the opposite:

guns_per_person_vs._gun_homicide_rate_1993_to_2013_0.jpg


[video=youtube;BPt8ElTQMIg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPt8ElTQMIg[/video]
 

Talarin

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FuzzySpider said:
Why the focus on homicides? Why not focus on actual gun deaths?

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4118836/gun ownership states.png
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On page 21 of this thread, It was murders and homicides you were concerned about. You seem to be moving the goalposts.

The majority of USA gun deaths are suicides (at least 60%). USA has a similar suicide rate to Sweden. Either Sweden has a massive suicide problem or you're being disingenuous with statistics to try to support your argument. This effectively shows your argument to be weak - You need to "spin" it.

Moving on...

I don't know why a collection of you are so determined to brow-beat the others into seeing things from your point of view.

I'm not going to pretend that I understand the US love affair with guns but I do appreciate that this is a social and cultural movement which has no simple answers from either side.

The "obvious wisdom" on offer here is incredibly arrogant and actually offensive, In my opinion, to those who actually live in this state of affairs.

Please, stop trying to "win".
 

Talarin

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And to drag the thread into something approaching the actual topic (the Las Vegas shootings), it seems that the NRA wants to restrict the sale of Bump-Stocks. Report from the Beeb plus What is a Bump-Stock for people like me who are clueless about such things.

Here's something I don't understand: how does a man get over 20 rifles and (I presume) thousands of rounds of ammunition, tripods and other accessories into his hotel room several days before committing this act and no one notice? Is this not something that would cause alarm? Did housekeeping not attend his room?
 

Deleted member 115407

D
Talarin said:
And to drag the thread into something approaching the actual topic (the Las Vegas shootings), it seems that the NRA wants to restrict the sale of Bump-Stocks. Report from the Beeb plus What is a Bump-Stock for people like me who are clueless about such things.

Here's something I don't understand: how does a man get over 20 rifles and (I presume) thousands of rounds of ammunition, tripods and other accessories into his hotel room several days before committing this act and no one notice? Is this not something that would cause alarm? Did housekeeping not attend his room?
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I've wondered the same. All I can imagine is that he either had them in bags, or perhaps under the bed which was otherwise undisturbed?

I dunno, man. But that many rifles and that much ammo is a pretty good deal of weight to just roll on up to your room in a suitcase.

I'm not opposed to restricting such accessories (bump stocks). Unfortunately, this incident has made them more popular and well known than they ever were. Store owners have been describing them as one-time novelties that are now selling out faster than they can stock them.
 
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Talarin

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Boomer Kay said:
If only we could have some research on that.. we will never know .. why would you fund research into such a delicate issue?
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I'm not understanding your point, Boomer. Sorry!

I'm not actually saying Sweden has a massive suicide problem, I'm saying that Fuzzy is deliberately including data irrelevant to his argument in order to bolster his point. Sweden was picked out because it is has a similar suicide rate per 100k population. If you want to torture the data some more and you're making the case that gun availability and death rates are linked, explain why the US is neither top for homicide, suicide (although barely) or accidental deaths by firearms per 100k population despite having the highest rate of gun ownership in the world by a significant margin.

The question of the "right to bear arms" is one that the US has struggled with for (literally) centuries. The idea that the citizenry might have to protect itself from the state is equally old (and, I didn't realise, goes back to Britain's rule - sorry!). Outstanding minds have been put to this question over extended periods of time. How are you, and I mean specifically you, going to top that?

Add to my point the more practical measure: the genie is well and truly out of the bottle in the US. As previously pointed out; no citizen wants to find themselves in a situation where the only people with firearms are the police and the criminals.
 
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Boomer Kay

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Sweden had 1.5 times the rate as the U.S. in the 60ies.
Sweden did some research and lowered it to U.S. level.

And wouldn't the other way to ask that question be more helpful? If high gun availability does "protect" you from anything, why is the violent crime rate in the U.S. on "2nd world country" level?

(If you checked the data above, you might have noticed that the notion that every us household has a gun is wrong, which explains why gun violence is not that wide spread? Gun ownership is concentrated in the weird gun cult households, which are about 30% of the U.S. the rest has a gun or two for hunting -which you can legally have in every other fricking western country .. there's nothing special about that . Nothing. You can legally own a machine gun in Germany if you go trough the hoops- or no gun at all .. and in case you're wondering why such a minority can uphold outdated legislation, you have not understood the NRA or how politics in the U.S. work ).
 
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Talarin

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vindelanos said:
I've wondered the same. All I can imagine is that he either had them in bags, or perhaps under the bed which was otherwise undisturbed?

I dunno, man. But that many rifles and that much ammo is a pretty good deal of weight to just roll on up to your room in a suitcase.
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I have recently taken up archery. I own a single 70" recurve bow and accessories and a dozen arrows and the packaging for that, even disassembled, is the size of a big backpack. It could quite easily be smaller when carried but not by a huge amount (because the limbs and arrows themselves are of a fixed size). I'm staggered that 20 rifles doesn't draw comment, or am I overestimating how big these things are?

I suppose there is a limit to how interested a hotel employee is going to get into any unusual customer (i.e. the guy that turns up with four or five big heavy bags), but still - it seemed very "how did no one notice" to me.
 

Adept

Adept
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/las-ve...-paddock-gun-purchases-didnt-raise-red-flags/

I'll quote a friend's summary of things

Rather carefully planned.

'He had been stockpiling his firearms since 1982'

'"From October 2016 to September 28, 2017, he purchased 33 firearms, majority of them rifles," Snyder said. "We wouldn't get notified of the purchases of the rifles, we would only get notified if there was a multiple sale, which would be two or more handguns in an individual purchase," Snyder said.'

Doing the math he had about fifteen guns already a year ago. He had bought them one at a time to avoid getting flagged.

'Paddock rigged 12 semi-automatic rifles with bump-fire stocks, or "bump stocks," devices which allowed the guns to fire continuously -- much like a automatic weapon.'

'"The ammo clip capacities ranged from 60 rounds to 100 rounds."'

Compare this to 30 rounds on military assault rifle magazine.

From other articles:

-He had installed video surveillance to the corridor outside his suite so he knew to take his own life before police stormed in.
-He possibly visited the site already a month ago during another concert, but it is not known if it was a scouting trip or did he just decide not to go through with his plan at that point.
-He brought in the weapons in 10+ suitcases.
-He had several homes in different states. It's thus possible his girlfriend genuinely didn't know about him having 50 guns.
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This psycho had been planning his mass murder suicide for quite a while. What a nasty piece of work.
 

Deleted member 115407

D
Talarin said:
I have recently taken up archery. I own a single 70" recurve bow and accessories and a dozen arrows and the packaging for that, even disassembled, is the size of a big backpack. It could quite easily be smaller when carried but not by a huge amount (because the limbs and arrows themselves are of a fixed size). I'm staggered that 20 rifles doesn't draw comment, or am I overestimating how big these things are?

I suppose there is a limit to how interested a hotel employee is going to get into any unusual customer (i.e. the guy that turns up with four or five big heavy bags), but still - it seemed very "how did no one notice" to me.
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Yeah, I'll often throw a second rifle and some ammo (maybe 100-200 rounds) into one of my rifle bags before going to the range. Those things get heavy, and unwieldy quick. To have the determination to bring 12+ of these things, with all of your ammo up to the room over time...

It's just evidence to support that the Vegas shooter was a complete madman. This wasn't some average Joe, law abiding gun owner who just snapped and picked up a rifle one day. He prepared for and planned this meticulously. Even going so far as to scout multiple other concert/arena locations (that's what the news is saying now).

This man was going to kill people come hell or high water. I don't think restricted access to firearms would have stopped him.
 
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