Buyers Remorse, Thy Name Is Beluga

Why pick a Beluga over an Orca when outfitting with luxury cabins, especially if for sightseeing missions?

Yep. This is why I use an Orca instead of a Beluga. Also has better jump range and faster engine speed - mine can cruise at 410 (4 pips in Eng) and boost to 495, and jump 33ly.

I'm currently 11k out from the bubble doing two high paying passenger missions. I can't imagine doing this in a bloated Beluga.
 
Yep. This is why I use an Orca instead of a Beluga. Also has better jump range and faster engine speed - mine can cruise at 410 (4 pips in Eng) and boost to 495, and jump 33ly.

I'm currently 11k out from the bubble doing two high paying passenger missions. I can't imagine doing this in a bloated Beluga.

Yup - Orca FTW

Mine does 39LY and boosts to 566M/S

I'm out deep as well so I don't have access to the exact modification specs, but this is a reasonable approximation.

https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/orc...A4QFMCGBzANokICMF9A===&bn=guaranteed delivery
 
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The beluga as it stands is a pointless ship.

The orca does luxury better, has better handling, range and is cheaper. For non luxury there is the anaconda.

Worse thing though: cannot pack C6 scoop+shields+slf. Since slf would be a redeeming feature for exploration (fooling around canyons and such) but is not possible this ship will never have a place in my fleet.
 
Beluga has a slew of problems that make this *gorgeous* ship kinda meh for gameplay. I bought one myself when it came out, and souped it up like mad, but I barely play it. It once had a niche, but since Orca's buff, that niche is gone.

- It *can* support a fighter bay, but given the limit to the number of universal optional internal slots, you can have either a fuel scoop OR a fighter bay, but not both. Why, FDev, why??

- It supports a class 6 luxury cabin, but so does the Orca. And Orca got a big buff to it's jump range, which now is roughly the same as Beluga's, while still being *significantly* faster than Beluga, so it's a safer and easier ship to fly.

- Beluga has loads of internals for a variety of cabins, but given that many VIP passengers are secretive or demanding, it's pointless to have them alongside non-VIPs for transport missions. On top of that, it's very rare to find many transport missions going to the same place at the same orbital.

- For pure transport power, just use an Anaconda. I have personally never seen luxury non-VIP transport missions, and Anaconda has as many optional internals as Beluga, while having individually larger ones. Plus Anaconda has a better jump range.

- Even other seemingly redundant large ships still find their place where Beluga does not. For example, not many people may fly the Type 9 once they get a Cutter, but Type 9 is a mere fraction of the price, has an *amazing* cockpit view, has great hull toughness. So I've managed to make it an excellent mining ship due to the fact that my field of view allows me to see many asteroids around me. Beluga on the other hand simply does not have any noticeable advantage over other ships to find itself a place anywhere. It's not better than *anything* at it's intended role.

- It's HUD is not centered like you'd expect on other ships. It's a bit of a quality of life rather than balance issue, but it can throw you off when you're flying in regular space.

Don't get me wrong ... I am never selling my Beluga. It is a beautiful ship and I enjoy flying her. But I do so knowing how gimp she is for her price. She REALLY needs a buff and I'm honestly surprised this hasn't happened yet.
 
I don't think there is any problem with the Beluga. Not it's design, or it's performance.

Yes, it does fall short of several other ships in terms of optimal performance for it's role. But in my view, this is not a problem with the Beluga or it's internals. It's a problem with the Passenger missions system.

My Beluga can carry 32 Luxury passengers, that's double the Orca's capacity of 16. And more than any other ship. But there are so few Luxury missions that this capability really doesn't matter.

A rather basic change to the Passenger Missions system so that a CMDR can browse available Passengers who are seeking specific quality of passage, would dramatically help. So that a CMDR who's running a world class Luxury transit doesn't have to filter through refugees seeking any cramped conditions for transit, or a bunch of business people who only want a cost effective passage service.

Allow me to browse a collection of passengers who are specifically seeking my provided level of accommodations. Even a division of just two tiers would be sufficient: Bulk passengers (covering Economy and Business, low to middling fares), and Premium passengers (First Class and Luxury, high to premium fares). And I'd really like to see the existing mission templates be offered within both Bulk and Premium passenger groups, such as Business People (short and medium range), Toursim (medium and long range), and Explorers (long range). This way, a Luxury passenger ship CMDR isn't stuck only dealing with one kind of mission (often, Rich Tourist) and can enjoy a bit of variety.

So again, in closing, I think the Beluga is fine. It simply needs to be supported with passenger missions to let it's top shelf Luxury performance actually exist and have meaningful play value for the investment.
 
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I worked my way from Orca to a Beluga. It lasted a day before swapping for a Conda. Great decision. Have gotten it to 43ly jump range with only modest engineering and can fit more passengers. It's a money machine.
 
The beluga as it stands is a pointless ship.

The orca does luxury better, has better handling, range and is cheaper. For non luxury there is the anaconda.

Worse thing though: cannot pack C6 scoop+shields+slf. Since slf would be a redeeming feature for exploration (fooling around canyons and such) but is not possible this ship will never have a place in my fleet.

The Beluga is a great mining ship tho.
Also it's a very fun FDS XXL. One C6 Bi-Weave 1 booster (both thermal resistant) and the rest is point defense and hull\ module buffs.
 
Ok, looking at the ship on coriolis....

Open up one of the restricted class 6 slots, or even just a class 5, reduce the weight to increase jump range and bam, ship is way better.
 
Imho first class cabins (not just luxury) should be exclusive to transport ships. Business and Economy class can be in a type 7 or whatever but VIPs should be only for dedicated ships. Otherwise the passenger ships are kinda pointless.
 
I don't think there is any problem with the Beluga. Not it's design, or it's performance.

Yes, it does fall short of several other ships in terms of optimal performance for it's role. But in my view, this is not a problem with the Beluga or it's internals. It's a problem with the Passenger missions system.

My Beluga can carry 32 Luxury passengers, that's double the Orca's capacity of 16. And more than any other ship. But there are so few Luxury missions that this capability really doesn't matter.

A rather basic change to the Passenger Missions system so that a CMDR can browse available Passengers who are seeking specific quality of passage, would dramatically help. So that a CMDR who's running a world class Luxury transit doesn't have to filter through refugees seeking any cramped conditions for transit, or a bunch of business people who only want a cost effective passage service.

Allow me to browse a collection of passengers who are specifically seeking my provided level of accommodations. Even a division of just two tiers would be sufficient: Bulk passengers (covering Economy and Business, low to middling fares), and Premium passengers (First Class and Luxury, high to premium fares). And I'd really like to see the existing mission templates be offered within both Bulk and Premium passenger groups, such as Business People (short and medium range), Toursim (medium and long range), and Explorers (long range). This way, a Luxury passenger ship CMDR isn't stuck only dealing with one kind of mission (often, Rich Tourist) and can enjoy a bit of variety.

So again, in closing, I think the Beluga is fine. It simply needs to be supported with passenger missions to let it's top shelf Luxury performance actually exist and have meaningful play value for the investment.

Yup, agreed, everything you said. The mission system is the core of the problem here.
 
If I may take this topic further....

What I posted above is really a fix that doesn't require a total gameplay/UI redesign. It would simply allow me to narrow the desired passenger missions, to better make use of the Passenger Ship specialty.

But IMO what is really, truly needed is indeed a redesign of the Passengers gameplay system. A step away from the Missions based mechanics we currently have. A gameplay design where my ship is opened for hire based on either 1) each seat paying (essentially our current bulk passengers), or 2) each cabin being chartered (present VIP missions).

How it could work:

Opening the Passenger Lounge would let me set a price for what a passenger must pay for each seat in a particular cabin. Optionally, I set the price for chartering the entire cabin. The maximum I can charge per-seat or cabin is limited by both:
A) the quality of the cabin itself, increasing from Economy, Business, First Class, and peaking at Luxury
B) the destination distance, more for longer distances (but perhaps harder to fill to maximum density)

Coupled to the price I set is a transit time (within which those Passengers must arrive). If I pick a price per seat/cabin that is below a certain threshold (and maybe not too profitable, either), the time is pretty long. Maybe several days. As I increase the price I demand for each seat/cabin, so does the passenger's expectations/demands for prompt arrival increase. Perhaps as little as 1 hour or less. Since price and time are coupled, a CMDR can set to fill up the cabins based on a longer or shorter arrive time, to suit their play session time, if they wish.

Next, for each cabin, I'd have a drop-down menu of systems, from next-door up to maybe 200LY away. I choose one system, and that cabin will only be accepting passengers traveling TO that system. Not every system may be in the drop-down, either. Sometimes the demand for a particular system may be low (due to BGS states, or whatnot), and the Lounge is not currently booking for that system. So maybe that gets me 20 to 40 systems to choose from.

The Passenger Lounge would then display the number of Passengers currently lined up to book seats and/or cabins at my current pricing and destinations, organized by cabin. If I'm pleased with a cabin's level of bookings at my chosen price/time/destination, I can click on the "Confirm" button for that cabin, and that cabin will immediately board passengers. I can then adjust the pricing or destination for any remaining unfilled cabins, and again wait a few seconds to see how many passengers are prepared to book, and then "Confirm" each cabin when the pay is looking like the best it's going to get.

Each system would have passengers with varying willingness to pay and transit time demands, based on a variety of factors: BGS State, wealth, and population of both the departure and destination systems, is a good start. The distance of the trip is another factor, and potentially the destination station.

Really good pay and volume would be passengers departing AND arriving in wealthy, populous systems in Boom state, around maybe 100LY apart. As each of those best-case criteria is reduced:
A) The passengers would pay less on that route.
B) Fewer passengers are interested in booking.

At the other end of the scale, you could find good pay working to take good pay for transporting people fleeing a system that's in Lockdown, Civil Unrest, or Famine. A few rich people fleeing at high pay, or many fleeing at lower pay. For a more high style of passenger, you might set pricing higher to charter the entire cabin, and get paid nicely for carrying just 3 or 4 Luxury cabin charters 100LY to 200LY. Perhaps short haul routes with many Economy cabins offering budget rates, filling to 100% capacity could be a competitive earner, thanks to quicker turn-around time.

But the key thing in this would be, IMO, that there is no static route that pays good. Such a system would put a focus on several (IMO good) things:
1) Work a fairly predictable area of the bubble (since I can pick and choose my destinations), if desired.
2) Paying attention to changes in the BGS, learning and adjusting my routes to follow the money flow.
3) The ability to outfit a ship for a specific class of cabins and passengers, and focus fully on routes catering to those fares.
4) Adding deeper value to the variety of cabin types, and even to the passenger ships themselves.
5) A sense of fluidity and life to the galaxy, with many existing factors directly influencing my choices and play as each week passes.
6) Choices in whether it's more profitable to run many passengers by offering a lower fare price, or fewer at a higher price. Choices in the distances I travel for each booked cabin.

Basically something that becomes a sort of game within itself. And has me playing Elite while I'm doing it.

And this leaves questions about places like Maia and Colonia. Those may be outside the range of many systems in the bubble, what happens to those destinations?

I'd be thrilled to see Frontier use these to make use of the existing "Tourism" economy stations. Tourism stations would be the go-to place to get passengers looking for destinations in Colonia, in the Pleiades, or those looking to take exploration trips to Tourism Beacons throughout the galaxy. Even the current type "Sightseeing Tour" type missions could be on offer there, too.

Thus rather than having to wait and hope to find such exploration/tourism missions randomly generated at random Passenger Boards through the bubble, CMDRs know exactly where to look for these specialties. A tourism economy station. An explorer wanting to head out and take along a few high paying Explorer passengers can simply stop at a Tourism station, choose a destination, and find fares waiting. Quickly. And be on their way.
 
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In the end, while I agree that the Passenger Missions also need tweaking, the Beluga is still a raging meh at best. It COULD be great. Personally i would affect the following changes were it up to me:

*Add 2 more class 6 open slots dedicated to passenger cabins.

*Allow the size 5 or 4 slot to be used for shields. The size 4 slot would be very weak shields--basically a docking bumper.

*Increase its jump range to be comperable to the Anaconda.

*MAKE THE DAMN FINS FOLD UP! Even using the auto-dock computer invariably results in crashes. Have it so when either the gear is down or you have been assigned a landing pad the wings fold against the hull. When eirther the gear is retracted or you leave a station's zone of control they open back up.
 
*MAKE THE DAMN FINS FOLD UP! Even using the auto-dock computer invariably results in crashes. Have it so when either the gear is down or you have been assigned a landing pad the wings fold against the hull. When eirther the gear is retracted or you leave a station's zone of control they open back up.

6509-31.jpg
 
The whole passenger system is kind of backwards. The way Elite works would be like a plane landing at Heathrow with the intention of flying to New York next, taking a look at a passenger list and seeing the places people wish to go, find 1 guy heading to New York and taking off with that 1 guy, and maybe 2 of his buddies. If nobody is going to New York the plane takes some other guy to Paris instead. Hopefully someone in Paris wants to go to New York...

It's never really made much sense.

I understand that FD wanted them to feel like privately hired chartered flights. But nobody hires a 757 for that. Hence the Beluga's problem. It's only real advantage over the other Luxury ships is it's size. When was the last time you quickly filled 32 luxury cabins with passengers all heading relatively to the same location? It's almost always 1-5 luxury passengers on the mission board at any given station. Dolphin can do that.
 
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What's a Beluga?...oh yeah, I remember purchasing one of those months ago, one day I might take it out of the hanger.... for the 2nd time.
 
I have a Python with five passenger cabins installed. In the last hour I made 44.2m credits. Works for me.

Congratulations, Job well done. I had a Python once. Its a very nice ship; one of the best looking ships in the game imho. GL and HF Commanders.
 
I'm in Rhea atm. Was around the area and thought I'd come in and peak. No wonder people don't like the beluga, when you can go to Rhea will all its economy missions. Take a clipper or a type 7, and you have a much cheaper ship to farm those economy missions with, and they can carry more. Heck, bring a type 9 along, you can probably fill that too.
 
Okay, I get that. Someday I want to turn a T-7 into a "space bus", because the cockpit reminds me of a bus for some reason :D

Actually, with a proper paint-job, the entire ship could pass as an old bus or train (without windows).

I have one T7 as a space bus. It's parked near Colonia. I use that for bulk missions to jaques visitor beacon. I can do lots of millions in just one trip... IMHO, the best space bus ever!
Currently, I fly an orca, even for exploration, which is simply gorgeus and handle like a dream.. ;)
 
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