I personally don't care weather they said it or not. There are lots of who want it.
Torpedo ammo.
- Thread starter Logan-Wolf-
- Start date
I did not say no fun in copertive play just no point to large fleet of players together because as it stands you can do anything with a wing.
I see it as wing =4 players
And fleet = 2 or three wings of fighters and several larger ships and 2 or three capital ships
I see it as wing =4 players
And fleet = 2 or three wings of fighters and several larger ships and 2 or three capital ships
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Either that, or simply have a stupidly long reload time on torps. Like 60secs.
Torps as they stand as silly, with their only use being suckerpunch shield crakers for PvP.
I do hope that FD will take a second look at them because they are pointless in PvE and
trick weapons in PvP.
Low amo => need to pack a serious punch => handicap them to avoid them being OP => suckerpunch weapon.
More amo and less damage could work too, maybe with a native effect such as ignoring armor resistances.
Which is a thing the big three should not do.
If anything those ships are the posterchild for "tanks with turrets" and should not be able to dogfight but merely position themselves to have the best turret coverage possible.
At 150-200 meters long the big three are big enough to classify as our capital ships, they are just not the humongous capital ships.
In comparison, the Iowa battleship is 262 meters long and the Fed.Corvette is a "short" 168 meters but on the other hand the Corvette is almost three times as wide with it's 87 meters width.
And no, a LONE eagle should not manage much against a large ship but with the -66% damage on small weapons against large ships they do need at least ONE weapon that can crack something bigger in order to "punch above their weight" and torpedoes are essentially that weapon.
Having torpedoes at least not suffer the -66% damage reduction would make it a useful weapon since that weapon is DESIGNED to use against larger ships. I mean, the weapon does a base 120 damage which drops to 39 only with the reasoning the target is LARGE.
Ok, so the immense shields, armour, hardness and resistances are not ENOUGHT, it should ALSO reduce incoming damage from smaller weapons by 33% to 66% because magic? I mean, the hull HP IS a representation of it's larger mass already.
And let's say the ship also has 50% resistances...now we have 20 points of damage.
1 torpedo that does 120 base damage is now 20 damage that could have been 60...and we can have 1 of them...
Im all for powerful cap ships and subcaps but when even torpedoes do crap damage it gets kind of silly...
The Torpedo Tube, aka Credit Launcher, requires a Torpedo.
Torpedoes are not simply synthesized, but actually constructed, and filled with Credits, which is what makes them so devastating - hence the 12,000 cr per shot reload.
Torpedoes are not simply synthesized, but actually constructed, and filled with Credits, which is what makes them so devastating - hence the 12,000 cr per shot reload.
WUTTT???
sure you can, you just have to wait for it to reload.
but OT: synthesis on torps is fine, if they remove reverb special effect.
My thoughts exactly. A two minute reload would mean a torpedoconda could clutch fire eight torps at a time or launch one every 15 seconds until supplies ran out.
I agreed when you first mentioned it and I still do. Synthesis would make it way OP, but now its just a one-off module that has almost no point outside assassinations or PvP.
And small ships using them would be more worthless if there is a 2 minute timer.
Let's not ONLY focus on mass firing from Condas.
A big salvo, if dodged, would leave the conda completely weaponless for two minutes. In order for the conda to spam them every 15 seconds, they'd have to constantly maintain a lock AND the appropriate distance. If the target dips into silent running periodically, or makes any attempt at evasion, or uses target lock breaker, the conda will not be able to fire as often. If they DO somehow manage to keep the perfect firing solution, do note that ECM and seeker missiles have a much shorter cooldown than 15 seconds.
It's sad how many don't study history or even use common sense.
It is that "gamer mindset".
"I want to be invincible and have a one shot kill God gun."
Torpedoes we're design to give smaller ships a chance to fight the big boys.
While the battleship had evolved primarily around engagements between armoured ships with large-caliber guns, the torpedo allowed torpedo boats and other lighter surface ships, submersibles, even ordinary fishing boats or frogmen, and later, aircraft, to destroy large armoured ships without the need of large guns, though sometimes at the risk of being hit by longer-range shellfire.
Only in games does "logic" say "Let's put a whole bunch of torpedoes on big ships."
Do you know why it hasn't been done in real life?
Logic and common sense.
My reasoning is to give newer players with limited credits a chance to deal with the op'ed, heavily modded "high school" bullies in the game.
Not, for some low forehead, uni-brow to mass stack on a 'Conda.
Maybe, some clarification and revision is needed.
1. Allow them to be synthesized, just like all other ammo types. (Although, you can't synthesize Anti-Thargoid weapons either)
2. Limit to ONLY 2 sizes, small and medium.
3. Limit on the size of ship that can use them. Nothing above small to medium classed craft. (Since gamers can't seem to use logic and common sense on their own, Dev's are often required to do it for them.)
I apologize if any comments hurt.
But, going around in an "invincible" ship, while destroying everything else with one shot, is only enjoyable if you're under the age of 8.
Fun comes from having a challenge.
I'm sorry I even brought the subject up now.
It is that "gamer mindset".
"I want to be invincible and have a one shot kill God gun."
Torpedoes we're design to give smaller ships a chance to fight the big boys.
While the battleship had evolved primarily around engagements between armoured ships with large-caliber guns, the torpedo allowed torpedo boats and other lighter surface ships, submersibles, even ordinary fishing boats or frogmen, and later, aircraft, to destroy large armoured ships without the need of large guns, though sometimes at the risk of being hit by longer-range shellfire.
Only in games does "logic" say "Let's put a whole bunch of torpedoes on big ships."
Do you know why it hasn't been done in real life?
Logic and common sense.
My reasoning is to give newer players with limited credits a chance to deal with the op'ed, heavily modded "high school" bullies in the game.
Not, for some low forehead, uni-brow to mass stack on a 'Conda.
Maybe, some clarification and revision is needed.
1. Allow them to be synthesized, just like all other ammo types. (Although, you can't synthesize Anti-Thargoid weapons either)
2. Limit to ONLY 2 sizes, small and medium.
3. Limit on the size of ship that can use them. Nothing above small to medium classed craft. (Since gamers can't seem to use logic and common sense on their own, Dev's are often required to do it for them.)
I apologize if any comments hurt.
But, going around in an "invincible" ship, while destroying everything else with one shot, is only enjoyable if you're under the age of 8.
Fun comes from having a challenge.
I'm sorry I even brought the subject up now.
Real battleships frequently had torpedo tubes, especially in the pre-dreadnought through WWI designs. They were rarely utilized though and were generally omitted from later vessels.
If they fit on small ship, more will fit on a bigger ship.
Not seeing the logic in this, or how you think medium ships aren't generally the 'bullies' choice, due to their greater speed which translates directly into defense and offense.
No weapon will make a new pilot a challenge for a veteran, they will only deprive the new pilot of valuable experience in other areas.
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Morbad, I do like the way you only picked the parts that go along with your thought process, to prove your point.
Yeah, they were used on bigger ships.
But, ONLY to supplement their primary weaponry.
They were never mass stacked on ships.
And, as you pointed out, and actually helped prove my point, eventually phased out as a viable weapon for the big ships.
Logic and common sense rule, albeit limitedly, in the real world.
You do know one of the reasons newer players quit playing, right?
From constantly getting puddle stomped by the "tough guys" in the op'ed bigger ships.
It isn't fun to constantly get your rear handed to you by players in bigger ships with all the bells and whistles.
Which, seems to be a core mechanic in Elite Dangerous.
I rarely see any battles where an "experienced" player uses a smaller ship against other players.
It, is usually someone in an Imperial Cutter, or one of the Big 3, going after newer players in the lower tiered ships.
And, that is not fun to anyone but the "tough guy" in the A-speced ship.
Yeah, they were used on bigger ships.
But, ONLY to supplement their primary weaponry.
They were never mass stacked on ships.
And, as you pointed out, and actually helped prove my point, eventually phased out as a viable weapon for the big ships.
Logic and common sense rule, albeit limitedly, in the real world.
You do know one of the reasons newer players quit playing, right?
From constantly getting puddle stomped by the "tough guys" in the op'ed bigger ships.
It isn't fun to constantly get your rear handed to you by players in bigger ships with all the bells and whistles.
Which, seems to be a core mechanic in Elite Dangerous.
I rarely see any battles where an "experienced" player uses a smaller ship against other players.
It, is usually someone in an Imperial Cutter, or one of the Big 3, going after newer players in the lower tiered ships.
And, that is not fun to anyone but the "tough guy" in the A-speced ship.
Right now torpedoes are only useful for the reverb mod.
Literally nobody will ever even blink at a single-shot weapon that does 120 damage to their hull or shields. It's only the ability to apply that damage directly to the shield gen that makes it useful.
As far as big ships using them on small ships, I'm not worried about that. Any ship that isn't a tub of lard can outrun them, and the arming distance will ensure that you have plenty of time to hit boost.
Literally nobody will ever even blink at a single-shot weapon that does 120 damage to their hull or shields. It's only the ability to apply that damage directly to the shield gen that makes it useful.
As far as big ships using them on small ships, I'm not worried about that. Any ship that isn't a tub of lard can outrun them, and the arming distance will ensure that you have plenty of time to hit boost.
Biggest pilotable ships in ED are a small fraction of the size of any capital ship in the Elite universe, so any misplaced arguments about not being able to stack torpedoes on capital ships (despite the fact that battleships frequently carried two-dozen torpedoes vs. the two to four on most torpedo boats), is largely moot.
The biggest ships we have are the equivalent of torpedo boat destroyers and most anything smaller than the big three are the equivalent of fast attack craft or fighters. Torpedo boats were damn vulnerable to destroyers as the latter were originally designed to counter the former, screening capital ships from their attacks. That's what a Cutter or Corvette is in the context of Elite's navies, small warships able to do what capital ships cannot.
I'm wondering what battles you've seen, since the holy trinity of combat vessels (including the predominant types in most PvP you'll see in Open) are the FDL, FAS, and Clipper, with Vultures, Gunships, and Dropships being reasonably well represented. The larger ships aren't as effective in the offense against other CMDRs and those using them to bully smaller ships are quite likely to be inexperienced themselves (in the current state of the game, you can be an abject novice and have a decked out cutter), else they'd know better. They are certainly used, but they don't provide any advantages over any of the previous vessels for the purpose of hunting smaller ships.
I have noticed a common recurring "complaint" about torpedo ammo synthesis...
And, that is "Then they would be spamming reverb Cascade torpedoes."
This wouldn't be a concern if others didn't go overboard with shield modding and stacking.
My guess is, this is coming from the "tough guys" that fly around in the op'ed shield tanking ships with stacked engineer modded SCB's.
And, they are concerned other players might damage their "God mode" ships, and lessen their "fun" of being "untouchable".
Again, the gamer mentality of... "I want to be invincible and have a one shot kill God gun.
But, no one else is allowed to do it."
I was hoping for a logical based discussion about this topic.
But, in retrospect, I think the dev's have it right.
Too few would utilize and use them logically and correctly.
And, too many would abuse it and go...for lack of better comparison, animé.
And, that is "Then they would be spamming reverb Cascade torpedoes."
This wouldn't be a concern if others didn't go overboard with shield modding and stacking.
My guess is, this is coming from the "tough guys" that fly around in the op'ed shield tanking ships with stacked engineer modded SCB's.
And, they are concerned other players might damage their "God mode" ships, and lessen their "fun" of being "untouchable".
Again, the gamer mentality of... "I want to be invincible and have a one shot kill God gun.
But, no one else is allowed to do it."
I was hoping for a logical based discussion about this topic.
But, in retrospect, I think the dev's have it right.
Too few would utilize and use them logically and correctly.
And, too many would abuse it and go...for lack of better comparison, animé.
We dont want a click to win button. PVP is all about skill. Its not exploration activity with point and honk.