You know it's true what they say, this game is SERIOUSLY unfriendly....

[Aashenfox]

So far I helped my son into space and a friend of mine. My son was pretty open to everything, but didn't play much by himself yet. Concerning that friend of mine, there is kind of a story attached to that... I told him how much I love this game and showed him a few screenshots. I told him it's not for everyone, a disclaimer I always add when somebody asks me about Elite. He then got the game, but didn't tell me, and just jumped in. That resulted in two rage quits, and that friend is usually a patient guy.
The fact that he then disliked the game for reasons not really fair made me want to show him how it's really done. So I made an appointment with him, brought food and drink and kinda mentored his first flight. He then played until he owned a Keelback, but then lost interest, which is okay.
The game's tutorials are pretty unfriendly. Also because they don't really show you the really important things. Small things like to pitch, not to yaw if you want to turn faster... And the fighting tutorial is much to hard for beginners. You can't really get a feeling for your guns and maneuvering and all. Also Elite is such a complex game, for which I love it to bits, by the way, but it really needs a proper introduction for new players. Something that says: "Okay new player. It's a lot. We know. Let's start very easy. Step by step". The video tutorials are actually better than that annoying pilot who even ridicules you when you fly past your target...
Another crucial thing that's really well hidden is the game manual. I mean, it's awesome. 100+ double pages. It explains everything... But it's a very small button in the upper right corner of the launcher. It should be a big fat flashing thing.
And yes, there is a manual.

I will soon mentor another friend who wants to get the game, and I already warned him about the complexity and all. When I started the game I already knew what it would be like, because I played the old Elite back then and already loved Frontier and First Encounters to bits. I can't really imagine what it's like for new players to jump into the game without any preparation and who don't know what to expect.

I've never read the manual

I just hit on a nice idea that may help. If every mission TYPE had either a video or a tutorial example of the mission that you could try first, that would be great. Then at least people who died without completely understanding why, don't lose their ship, fail their missions, think this game is evil, etc, etc.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I just hit on a nice idea that may help. If every mission TYPE had either a video or a tutorial example of the mission that you could try first, that would be great. Then at least people who died without completely understanding why, don't lose their ship, fail their missions, think this game is evil, etc, etc.

Well, I am not too sure. Part of the idea is that you learn as you play. Its been debated a lot in various ways (initially FD didnt want us to have pretty much any stats on the modules either, we need to experiment and test for ourselves), but 'learn as you go' is a bit of a design philosophy. Personally I think it would be better if instructions are just better so that we fail due to 'unforseen events' rather than 'no clue what the game wants from me'.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Really all I have to say is that maybe this game isn't for either of you very smart gentlemen. I say this because you don't seem to have the patience, nor the knowledge to teach your friend how to play

The dude has over 1500 hours under his belt and is happily playing. I think you misunderstood something here...

 

[Valorin]

I don't think a tutorial would even be necessary, but just a way to measure what the mission will be like. I avoid combat missions for ages now. For once because I am not a combat pilot, but also because I really don't have a clue what will be waiting for me if I'd accept.
I remember doing black box missions back then because they were to well paid. I failed a few times, also almost lost my ship once, but got away. Sometimes I was lucky and there weren't anybody lurking, but I came back prepared nontheless. Those missions taught me how to use grabber limpets and how to effectively grab and run.

 

[Hell Razor5543]

So far I helped my son into space and a friend of mine. My son was pretty open to everything, but didn't play much by himself yet. Concerning that friend of mine, there is kind of a story attached to that... I told him how much I love this game and showed him a few screenshots. I told him it's not for everyone, a disclaimer I always add when somebody asks me about Elite. He then got the game, but didn't tell me, and just jumped in. That resulted in two rage quits, and that friend is usually a patient guy.
The fact that he then disliked the game for reasons not really fair made me want to show him how it's really done. So I made an appointment with him, brought food and drink and kinda mentored his first flight. He then played until he owned a Keelback, but then lost interest, which is okay.
The game's tutorials are pretty unfriendly. Also because they don't really show you the really important things. Small things like to pitch, not to yaw if you want to turn faster... And the fighting tutorial is much to hard for beginners. You can't really get a feeling for your guns and maneuvering and all. Also Elite is such a complex game, for which I love it to bits, by the way, but it really needs a proper introduction for new players. Something that says: "Okay new player. It's a lot. We know. Let's start very easy. Step by step". The video tutorials are actually better than that annoying pilot who even ridicules you when you fly past your target...
Another crucial thing that's really well hidden is the game manual. I mean, it's awesome. 100+ double pages. It explains everything... But it's a very small button in the upper right corner of the launcher. It should be a big fat flashing thing.
And yes, there is a manual.

I will soon mentor another friend who wants to get the game, and I already warned him about the complexity and all. When I started the game I already knew what it would be like, because I played the old Elite back then and already loved Frontier and First Encounters to bits. I can't really imagine what it's like for new players to jump into the game without any preparation and who don't know what to expect.

Well done, Sir. I often try to help new Players get a better start in the Game, through advise and Trade Dividends. Make sure to cover REBUYs! Try and find a good trade route that you do not mind sharing, and run the route a few times to help the new Player with the TDs (5% of your profit margins, and it does not affect you). Take a look through the top link in my signature to see more on what I try to do.

 

[Aashenfox]

Well, I am not too sure. Part of the idea is that you learn as you play. Its been debated a lot in various ways (initially FD didnt want us to have pretty much any stats on the modules either, we need to experiment and test for ourselves), but 'learn as you go' is a bit of a design philosophy. Personally I think it would be better if instructions are just better so that we fail due to 'unforseen events' rather than 'no clue what the game wants from me'.

Yeh, you're right a balance needs to be struck. I don't deny its hard for FD to make such a rewarding game without it having a learning curve like a cliff face.

The dude has over 1500 hours under his belt and is happily playing. I think you misunderstood something here...

Appreciate the support, mate, thanks, having a bad day already lol.

 

[Aashenfox]

I don't think a tutorial would even be necessary, but just a way to measure what the mission will be like. I avoid combat missions for ages now. For once because I am not a combat pilot, but also because I really don't have a clue what will be waiting for me if I'd accept.
I remember doing black box missions back then because they were to well paid. I failed a few times, also almost lost my ship once, but got away. Sometimes I was lucky and there weren't anybody lurking, but I came back prepared nontheless. Those missions taught me how to use grabber limpets and how to effectively grab and run.

Yeh I told him about limpets and he said nah, I'll just persevere until I can get a viper. Good lad.

 

[Whiplash 1983]

One can have two extra PC's and screens up for info, anything you want for equipment, all the time in the world and over 5600 hrs into the "game". It's like chess for hardware, life for software. I am still figuring out how to do many tasks never even tried up till now. And I started in the original 1983 release too. It's not unfriendly. It's Elite. One word. Could be a noun or a verb. The eternal original PC puzzle. With no instructions. Still growing like a crystal it is much bigger now than it started out so yeah... tough getting into late. But still worth it.

 

[the100thmonkey]

I've been playing for nearly 1500 hours over nearly 2 years, but thanks for the invite anyway, I'll pass it onto my bro

I think the suggestion was to head over to the newcomers' forum and help out.

 

[Aashenfox]

I think the suggestion was to head over to the newcomers' forum and help out.

I will be doing that too.

 

[Ashnak]

Errrr... Just one cotton pickin minute... You mean to say that the manual has never been updated? It's still the same manual it was from years ago? Really? v1.03
...
Just checked the manual version on the launcher... Manual v2.4 [yesnod] how up to date it is though, I don't know, not looked through it yet.

Now I've started that post, I'm going to finish it. Yes, the manual in the launcher is actually 2.4 - my bad. The one I've linked simply was the first one that popped up in Google, on a site called "elitedangerous.de" :S

Only excuse I can offer is that I often post from my office PC where I'm not allowed to install ED.

 

[Jazzy]

Kids are fast learners ... and before you know, they'll be better in the game that you could ever be.

Yes so very true. They use to run shotgun for me when I was trading. But the little (add your own word of choice) decided it was more fun double crossing me and taking me out for the cargo. They won that round, but then I sent them to Room cleaning duty, and dishes right away heh!

They prefer PVP in open where I like to potter around in Mobius more often these days.

 

[eza]

Love this thread...
OP: My brother had a tough time as a new player
Thread: No he didn't!

Yes so very true. They use to run shotgun for me when I was trading. But the little (add your own word of choice) decided it was more fun double crossing me and taking me out for the cargo. They won that round, but then I sent them to Room cleaning duty, and dishes right away heh!

:-D that's brilliant!

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I don't think a tutorial would even be necessary, but just a way to measure what the mission will be like. I avoid combat missions for ages now. For once because I am not a combat pilot, but also because I really don't have a clue what will be waiting for me if I'd accept.
I remember doing black box missions back then because they were to well paid. I failed a few times, also almost lost my ship once, but got away. Sometimes I was lucky and there weren't anybody lurking, but I came back prepared nontheless. Those missions taught me how to use grabber limpets and how to effectively grab and run.

Isn't that what the ranking is for? Take a low ranked low paid one and I would hope the chances of meeting an elite conda are low (If not then bug report). But elite rankings and earnings have to have some meaning. If elite high paid missions give weak targets then where is the content for experienced players?.

 

[kilvenny]

I think adding a feature like, "Pilot School". where you do a succession of elements to gain your pilot wings would be a good idea. Take each of the game elements and effectively make them licence tasks. Land on a planet surface, outpost, land on a station. Land in a finite number of seconds, put the player starting in different places and use pads/traffic that increase the challenge. Low and high g worlds coulds be factored in. Driving an SRV. Cargo,Fuel scooping etc. The start is there with some of the training missions. As you go up the license levels make it harder. Each license task can have an information screen which assists the player with tips and guidance.

 

[CMDR ANCALAGON]

I think adding a feature like, "Pilot School". where you do a succession of elements to gain your pilot wings would be a good idea. Take each of the game elements and effectively make them licence tasks. Land on a planet surface, outpost, land on a station. Land in a finite number of seconds, put the player starting in different places and use pads/traffic that increase the challenge. Low and high g worlds coulds be factored in. Driving an SRV. Cargo,Fuel scooping etc. The start is there with some of the training missions. As you go up the license levels make it harder. Each license task can have an information screen which assists the player with tips and guidance.

That's effectively what we had when mission availability was tied to player's rank, where one could only perform missions that were of equal or lower rank.

Apparently, people complained enough (mob rule anyone?) and they changed it. It was still in place when I started, and I thought it added a feel progression and gave some substance to the various ranks.

But, its not my game and these aren't my customers (angry mob) to manage, so I just roll with it.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Yeah I liked the mission board the way it was before.... Giving us a real sense of progression. Now the problem was it sometimes meant no missions on the board you could do......

My suggestion if feasible would be the mission board templates be as they are now but they scale to your Cmdr so you always have missions to do..... Then to add the odd yoghurt mission to stretch a Cmdr then deliver those off the books a bit like the Palin thargoid missions.

The perfect scenarios is 1000 missions on the board that we filter for what we want but recent events show FD can't deliver that.

That said like you, I ain't gonna moan about it, too many other features I really care about and besides it is better in 2.4 than 2.3

 

[lenna]

@OP: ED is not really that much different from any other flight game with a combat element. The problem tends to be that some people expect to progress too fast and then get surprised when the speed of progression bites them in the backside. Take things slowly and get comfortable with the game first and don't expect to progress too fast.

When you take missions watch the type and level, they are typically dead giveaways about the nature of opposition or difficulty you may encounter.

The tutorials are there for practicing the basics and if you only just pass them then keep running them until you are comfortable with the results. Tuning the controls to suit your style is often the key with games like ED.

 

[Jack Schitt]

My suggestion if feasible would be the mission board templates be as they are now but they scale to your Cmdr so you always have missions to do..... Then to add the odd yoghurt mission to stretch a Cmdr then deliver those off the books a bit like the Palin thargoid missions.

I'd allow anyone to take any mission, but if you take one that's above your current rating the PF waives all insurance responsibilities. Destruction results in full-price rebuy or nothing. In fact I'd go one further: if you take a Deadly or Elite mission and you don't have the rank, no rebuy at all. If you lose your heavily Engineered ship, you have to replace it with stock and start over.

(Yes, multi-millionaires could self-insure against this by Engineering spare modules and storing them. But at least that's extra gameplay. And multi-millionaires should have reasonably high ratings anyway).

 

[Stealthie]

Also, it sounds to me like he has a somewhat green accomplice trying to guide and teach him. When you say [sic] "those who play this game know black box missions are really hard" makes me think you either don't play this game that much or haven't figured out how collector limpets work.

Just to pick up on this...

When I first started playing ED "properly" (rather than just blasting stuff in wings, with some mates) I think I started a thread about black-box missions being incredibly hard.

Thing was, I took on a mission, arrived at the USS and as soon as I got within a couple of hundred metres of the black-box, 3 or 4 fairly powerful ships appeared and my Cobra was destroyed within seconds.
I took on 2 or 3 more black-box missions and this happened each time.

From the POV of a newbie, who doesn't know any different, that would suggest that black-box missions ARE bloody hard.

With the benefit of hindsight, it's apparent that I was just unlucky with those missions because normally BB missions are completely straightforward and it's very rare that you get baddies showing up to attack you.
If, as a newbie, the almighty RNG isn't kind to you, you ARE going to assume that's simply the way those missions work though.

Maybe it'd be a good idea if ED was set up so that the RNG didn't add extra levels of complexity to missions the first few times that you take them, so a player would have an opportunity to get an idea of what a "basic" mission should be, and then starts ramping-up the difficulty?