Acer Windows Mixed Reality Headset is out!

Are you saying you think presence and immersion are a bad thing in vr? If so I must disagree. The guardian system or chaperone are there to minimise any risk, and I think the answer is to improve that not give up on presence that only vr can give
 
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Are you saying you think presence and immersion are a bad thing in vr? If so I must disagree. The guardian system or chaperone are there to minimise any risk, and I think the answer is to improve that not give up on presence that only vr can give

Probably doesn't like having fun when playing games either... Not sure what that post was about...
 
What you describe, Variform, is called Augmented Reality. It's a tech that is currently being developed by Microsoft (see Hololens) but it's still somewhat in its infancy compared to VR.

They chose the Mixed Reality branding for their current Windows headsets partly as a marketing tactic to separate themselves from the other "mere" VR headsets, partly as future proofing - they plan to include future AR enabled headsets under the same brand. Basically in their language Mixed Reality means VR and AR together.

As for the dangers of VR, I think VR naturally discourages extremely long playsessions simply due to how physically (as well as psychologically) exhausting it tends to be. I can't personally play for much longer than 1 hour straight without taking breaks, it just isn't enjoyable after a certain point. I think in the long term VR actually promotes health, due to VR gamers sitting less and standing and moving around move.
 
What you describe, Variform, is called Augmented Reality. It's a tech that is currently being developed by Microsoft (see Hololens) but it's still somewhat in its infancy compared to VR.

They chose the Mixed Reality branding for their current Windows headsets partly as a marketing tactic to separate themselves from the other "mere" VR headsets, partly as future proofing - they plan to include future AR enabled headsets under the same brand. Basically in their language Mixed Reality means VR and AR together.

As for the dangers of VR, I think VR naturally discourages extremely long playsessions simply due to how physically (as well as psychologically) exhausting it tends to be. I can't personally play for much longer than 1 hour straight without taking breaks, it just isn't enjoyable after a certain point. I think in the long term VR actually promotes health, due to VR gamers sitting less and standing and moving around move.

VR sessions are usually a lot more intense indeed.
But I have easily knocked a few hours away in ED after a running in period.
When I started though it was intense, sweating, tension etc etc.
After a few weeks I had learned to relax and just chill with it.

But this summer I bought g29 wheel and project cars, this again back to the intense sweating and tension, takes me a while to get relaxed but when I do I can play for hours.

As for lone echo for instance, I would like to finish it in one session sometime but I just don't have the stamina to stand up right for 5 hours :S
 
Are you saying you think presence and immersion are a bad thing in vr? If so I must disagree. The guardian system or chaperone are there to minimise any risk, and I think the answer is to improve that not give up on presence that only vr can give

No I didn't say that.
 
What you describe, Variform, is called Augmented Reality. It's a tech that is currently being developed by Microsoft (see Hololens) but it's still somewhat in its infancy compared to VR.

They chose the Mixed Reality branding for their current Windows headsets partly as a marketing tactic to separate themselves from the other "mere" VR headsets, partly as future proofing - they plan to include future AR enabled headsets under the same brand. Basically in their language Mixed Reality means VR and AR together.

As for the dangers of VR, I think VR naturally discourages extremely long playsessions simply due to how physically (as well as psychologically) exhausting it tends to be. I can't personally play for much longer than 1 hour straight without taking breaks, it just isn't enjoyable after a certain point. I think in the long term VR actually promotes health, due to VR gamers sitting less and standing and moving around move.

Healthy is if gamers went outside for a run. I don't believe for a minute that just standing up and moving a half a yard in any direction will make much of a health difference.

But yes, AR is the 'official' name for projecting virtual things onto or into the real world. Then again, who makes these things 'official' anyway. In a sense it is the same thing as Mixed Reality as per M$'s marketing slogan. But they seem to be the ones actually going for that, though they hop on the VR bandwagon at the moment to not lag behind the rest.

I am not sure if it makes sense to do VR + AR = MR. They can call it what they like but its superfluous in different ways.

- Overlaying reality with AR becomes a VR; it just consists of 2 types of elements and therefore it alters everything. It is synergistic. You cannot truly say anymore philosophically that there are 2 worlds that are merged.
- VR in essence is not different from a 2D screen. Both are easily separable from reality. But give it time and AR/MR might not be. You take a look at HOLO-ME and extrapolate the refinement of that sort of technology into the future and it will be possible to insert virtual people in your living room and do a sort of Turing test for avatars, have someone come in, use the headset, open a door and tell the person another friend was invited and they will never realize he isn't real.
- You could do the same with VR, like facebook wants, that people can meet in VR in Paris and sit on a terrace having a drink, but even though that other person you don't know who was just introduced to you might be a real person, removing the VR set immediately make sit clear none you experienced was real. Even if your real life friend living next door is real and shared your experience.

This is why VR is immersive and fun, but ultimately unsatisfying. A game like ED is fun and interesting and engaging etc. because it is offset against a background of reality. A game by default is areal experience based on unreal scenario's. If you could really board a starship ED would not be a game, it would be a sim in the way an architect bureau would use a 3D tool to project their design to make it visible.

A game therefore must necessarily be about things you normally cannot experience and that is possible by the background against which it is placed: reality.

That is why AR/MR is the future. It provides a useful overlay on reality and thus taking advantage of the strengths of both phenomenon. What is not real is enhanced because it is placed against a background of reality and in some sense it takes on real attributes. And reality is enhanced because virtual objects share normally inaccessible aspects for reality, with it. Escapism into VR is less satisfying that AR because you can never get so far into it as to lose yourself. AR/MR will provide more immersion because of the reality factor. In the same way a lie works better if it is based on a truth and believable. A lie where you tell your boss you were late because you just arrived from Alpha Centauri will not save your job.

Imagine that the sofa you have at home cannot enter into a virtual reality. Because reality doesn't allow that. Now you create internet and make a 3D model of the sofa. It can now enter into cyberspace and exist there as a separate entity. As you know, things you buy in game stores for games have a unique identity when they are assigned to your account. Your sofa is defined online by a tag. And with the unfortunate rise of the IOT ALL products will get a virtual counterpart, a digital shadow.

It would make no sense for a sofa to be in VR because if it is there, it is already specifically coded into it. And yet that particular sofa can never have a counterpart in the real world. With AR a digital sofa can be projected in the real world and treated as part of the furniture because it looks nice and perhaps it can overlay and make a real sofa disappear.

The implication here is that VR is limited and AR is not. AR is a self-enhancing perceptional change as such. VR can only at its maximum copy the entire world given enough computing power.

Another disadvantage of VR is that you can take it with you. You can go have a drink in Paris from Kenia and from Iceland and it won't make a difference. But AR cannot be taken with you. When you use it it will necessarily be a mixture of Kenia or Icelandic reality with whatever assets you like to project. That makes it interesting and validates life. VR doesn't validate anything beyond its own perimeter and parameter.
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@ Piper: Sorry, it is not for everybody.
 
No I didn't say that.

To be honest having read yours posts I still am not sure WHAT you are saying.... Still hololens is a thing so hopefully we all will get what we want. At some point I imagine the tech will merge with some sort of activatable polorizing glasses.
 
Healthy is if gamers went outside for a run. I don't believe for a minute that just standing up and moving a half a yard in any direction will make much of a health difference.
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You have obviously never tried The Thrill of the Fight, The Golf Club VR or Mount Wing Suit. The boxing (try standing still in that one) game is every bit the work out of a gym on it's own. The upper body workouts alone, in all 3, can be intense and the aerobic value is obvious. I live where we have winter. Much of this can't be done outside 365 days a year. Not everyone is able or wants to subject their knees to running, especially older people. VR gaming is a brilliant way to get people active. Just cause you don't use it that way, doesn't mean you should discount VR gaming as a health tool. This doesn't even cover what gaming in general does for things like eye hand co-ordination, driving skills and so many other things other than just fun.
 
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I seriously suspect he is just trying to troll.

And I positively hate the concept of "gamers".

Yes I play games, a lot of games.
I also watch movies , tv series and maintain my home cinema, read books, hiking and taking pictures with my DSLR.
We are adults, to a degree, but I have been to one of the nerdiest game convention out there. The eve-online fanfest.

Guess what? It wasn't populated exclusively by high functioning autistics.
But intelligent and passionate people most parents, with far more going on in their lives than someone you can define by a very small subsection of a particular hobby.

This is a picture of a PC gamer now.
terry-crews-feature-0215.jpg


The same goes for console gamers as well.
Games are a past time.
Not a stigmatic identity definition.
 
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I seriously suspect he is just trying to troll.

The same goes for console gamers as well.
Games are a past time.
Not a stigmatic identity definition.

It is funny how when someone doesn't understand a word you are saying is labeled a troll and then has difficulty with being labeled a 'gamer' because there is supposed not to be a 'gamer'. What the relevance is to what I wrote I do not get. Maybe you can explain, otherwise, aren't you the troll. What does the term'gamer' have to do with VR or AR?

As definitions go, no person should be called a 'man' because as there are too many types of them to be labeled such. To define a 'man' simply by his physical and most obvious traits is 'a past time'. So let's not talk about men anymore.
 
It is funny how when someone doesn't understand a word you are saying is labeled a troll and then has difficulty with being labeled a 'gamer' because there is supposed not to be a 'gamer'. What the relevance is to what I wrote I do not get. Maybe you can explain, otherwise, aren't you the troll. What does the term'gamer' have to do with VR or AR?

As definitions go, no person should be called a 'man' because as there are too many types of them to be labeled such. To define a 'man' simply by his physical and most obvious traits is 'a past time'. So let's not talk about men anymore.

Lets not bring gender discussions into a VR forum, eh?
 
I'm going to hijack my own thread and go off-topic too!

All this stereotyping and name calling has left me feeling victimised. I'm suing for libel!

#MeToo! [where is it]

Now. How about that Acer?
 
going back to basics there is 1 really good reason why *right now * a windows VR headset is not worth buying imo..

Elite does not work on it.

these things are only going to come down in price as more models hit the market (or at least come with better throw in software). Does anyone really want to be locked into MS store and nothing else?, MS have officially said whilst not impossible it is unlikely they will ever support the vive or the rift.

Maybe come back and reevaluate once steamvr support is out, and if it works flawlessly then you have a decision to make... until then, no elite support? no purchase I would say... esp as we are all presumably elite players and ED is still the shining light of vr games imo.
 
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The Acer has had some mixed reviews, most say it isn't the best design compared to the others but works very well. I have seen a lot of very positive reviews on the Lenovo that is about the same price and many think it is the best value overall. I have found the Lenovo for $299 without controllers and if I had a better GPU I would most likely buy it. The biggest thing I would recommend is trying them on (if it is possible) and try to do a demo. The biggest issue with the Windows MR (Samsung excluded) is that they haven't got a physical IPD adjustment and that can make using them problematical. The IPD is set to 63 so, if you are towards the higher or lower end of the range, you will likely have problem. I have and IPD of 65 so I should be OK, but, I still intend to seek out a demo or find someone with a very generous return policy.

going back to basics there is 1 really good reason why *right now * a windows VR headset is not worth buying imo..

Elite does not work on it.

these things are only going to come down in price as more models hit the market (or at least come with better throw in software). Does anyone really want to be locked into MS store and nothing else?, MS have officially said whilst not impossible it is unlikely they will ever support the vive or the rift.

Maybe come back and reevaluate once steamvr support is out, and if it works flawlessly then you have a decision to make... until then, no elite support? no purchase I would say... esp as we are all presumably elite players and ED is still the shining light of vr games imo.

You know Mad Mike, people are running the game on Windows Mixed Reality don't you? SteamVR is in Beta and people are playing the game on it. You should post warnings about your hatred of Microsoft. Microsoft already has benefitted the consumer by forcing Oculas to sell the Rift at $399... Hopefully they inspire the other partners to innovate like Samsung did so we can benefit even more.

[RANT=ON] I get so tired of the negativity on this forum sometimes, the Pimax threads are full of it. Here's a small company that's bringing a new product to market that has the possibilities of being a real ground breaker and some people who have nothing more to give than a negative opinion just dump on it. If you didn't participate in the kick starter for whatever reason why do you feel you have to rain on other peoples parade? Most of them know the risks they are taking but they weighed it against the possibilities of reward. If you got nothing to add but negative speculation then I strongly request you keep it to yourselves. [RANT=OFF]

 
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You know Mad Mike, people are running the game on Windows Mixed Reality don't you? SteamVR is in Beta and people are playing the game on it. You should post warnings about your hatred of Microsoft. Microsoft already has benefitted the consumer by forcing Oculas to sell the Rift at $399... Hopefully they inspire the other partners to innovate like Samsung did so we can benefit even more.

[RANT=ON] I get so tired of the negativity on this forum sometimes, the Pimax threads are full of it. Here's a small company that's bringing a new product to market that has the possibilities of being a real ground breaker and some people who have nothing more to give than a negative opinion just dump on it. If you didn't participate in the kick starter for whatever reason why do you feel you have to rain on other peoples parade? Most of them know the risks they are taking but they weighed it against the possibilities of reward. If you got nothing to add but negative speculation then I strongly request you keep it to yourselves. [RANT=OFF]


Sorry but what a load of tripe!... Hatred of MS? I dont hate MS... i dont trust them, not after the zune, kinect and windows phones or the xbox 360 wireless racing wheel on the PC, or the fact they they reset my privacy and internet bandwidth sharing after back ground windows updates. ....... but i dont hate them.

steamVR is currently in beta testing for the MS headset but it is not out YET AND it is true MS have officially said it is unlikely but not impossible they will support vive or rift on their store. i think this is worth considering at least......... I said i suggest waiting until it is out, because when it is there may be better deals, better options for other models or better throw in software bundles.

That is my view! and i am entitled to air it......and why you feel the need to talk about pimax in the MS headset is also beyond me..... but this is a discussion forum to post opinions. I have had or tried a variety of headsets over the last 3 or 4 years and i am entitled to give my view... you dont want to read it then block me but you can shove your "keep your view to yourself ! " back where it came from.
 
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Sorry but what a load of tripe!... Hatred of MS? I dont hate MS... i dont trust them, not after the zune, kinect and windows phones or the xbox 360 wireless racing wheel on the PC, or the fact they they reset my privacy and internet bandwidth sharing after back ground windows updates. ....... but i dont hate them.

steamVR is currently in beta testing for the MS headset but it is not out YET AND it is true MS have officially said it is unlikely but not impossible they will support vive or rift on their store. i think this is worth considering at least......... I said i suggest waiting until it is out, because when it is there may be better deals, better options for other models or better throw in software bundles.

That is my view! and i am entitled to air it......and why you feel the need to talk about pimax in the MS headset is also beyond me..... but this is a discussion forum to post opinions. I have had or tried a variety of headsets over the last 3 or 4 years and i am entitled to give my view... you dont want to read it then block me but you can shove your "keep your view to yourself ! " back where it came from.

who cares if they support Rift or Vive in their store or not.
What matters is that microsoft will support steamVr and it is planned to be available before holiday, so one month.
If you want to try now steamvr you only have to request a beta key form microsoft and here you go. Most of Ms headsets owner are testing their headset in steamvr right now and they say it works already very well.
 
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who cares if they support Rift or Vive in their store or not.
What matters is that microsoft will support steamVr and it is planned to be available before holiday, so one month.
If you want to try now steamvr you only have to request a beta key form microsoft and here you go. Most of Ms headsets owner are testing their headset in steamvr right now and they say it works already very well.

actually afaik MS DONT support steamVR.......... SteamVR supports the windows headsets..... this may seem trivial but it honestly is not and if you think about it the reasons should be glaringly obvious

As a rift user, steamVR is a poor relation to native support, and you have the added issue with a lot of titles which are designed to use the vive wands that they map really poorly to oculus touch.

look, if you do not care about any of that then fine, buy one!. as i said MAYBE steamVR integration will be flawless, i hope it is!..... but I have been through the headaches of steamvr crashing or burying me in the floor, as well as having to angle my hands at crazy angles as the touch maps weirdly to the wand controllers, and general poor performance... All i was saying was if it was me I would wait till its out and see as you have nothing to lose.

and as for who cares if they support the vive or rift? well YOU might, if the windows VR HMD goes the way of kinect or zune and then the next time you buy another brand of VR hmd all of a sudden all of your MS store titles are now worthless.

shesh! i didnt think it was such a big deal!.

(that said i didnt know steamVR was in open beta for everyone, so that is a bonus last i saw it was for developers only).
 
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