Hardware & Technical Be aware, very aware, of the M$ Autumn Update

[Zeeman]

There are ways to turn off the auto updates in the services and registry. I won't give instructions, as I don't want to be responsible for anyone bricking anything, but if you are clever enough to go out there and find out how, now that you know it's possible, I'm sure you're also clever enough to take responsibility for your own actions.

My last update was the last one before the Creator's update, and there it shall stay until I can confirm whatever more recent updates are not going to be worse than what I have.

Of course, I've just picked up a new Evo 960 SSD for my rig, so will be searching like crazy for that old Win 10 install USB I made just before Creator's...

Totally agree with the Linux wish - I'd ditch Windows in a heartbeat - I'd even pay for ED again...


Z...

 

[Wasp0]

There are ways to turn off the auto updates in the services and registry. I won't give instructions, as I don't want to be responsible for anyone bricking anything, but if you are clever enough to go out there and find out how, now that you know it's possible, I'm sure you're also clever enough to take responsibility for your own actions.

My last update was the last one before the Creator's update, and there it shall stay until I can confirm whatever more recent updates are not going to be worse than what I have.

Of course, I've just picked up a new Evo 960 SSD for my rig, so will be searching like crazy for that old Win 10 install USB I made just before Creator's...

Totally agree with the Linux wish - I'd ditch Windows in a heartbeat - I'd even pay for ED again...


Z...

Thanks for the tip Z, but correct me if i am wrong but you can't actually turn off updates through the registry or Policy, you can merely choose to delay them, but sooner or later they will get you??

Am i right? or have i read and re-read the tinterweb wrong (Again )

 

[RidingTheFlow]

Thanks for the tip Z, but correct me if i am wrong but you can't actually turn off updates through the registry or Policy, you can merely choose to delay them, but sooner or later they will get you??

Am i right? or have i read and re-read the tinterweb wrong (Again )

Well, I was on Anniversary Update for 1 year now, and its supposed to reach EOL (when it stops receiving security updates) in another half year. That's decent term.

I will probably migrate to (spring) Creators Update before that anyway since it seem to approach usable state.

If you want to dispense with "windows as service" model altogether, the only choice is to downgrade to Windows 8 or Windows 7 (and yeah, if you own W10 license you have a right to downgrade).

 

[Zeeman]

Thanks for the tip Z, but correct me if i am wrong but you can't actually turn off updates through the registry or Policy, you can merely choose to delay them, but sooner or later they will get you??

Am i right? or have i read and re-read the tinterweb wrong (Again )

You can turn it off. I have all my Win 10 PC's with updates turned off. My work laptop because Win 10 always decides that when I finish a job, and need to get in my car and go to the next, that that is a brilliant time to start a gigantic update... I really hate the forced "noob mode" way that Win 10 was designed.

Z...

 

[Zak Gordon]

I think the worst thing about the new update policy is that unless you have a non-consumer version (as in the most common type sold on prebuilt PC's and laptops) you loose control over the process. Also by not having individual control over each update, it means MS can bundle lots of stuff together and not give proper details on what it all does, everything has become vague and difficult to find the detail on, so much so that the best option is perhaps as Zeeman suggests, just turn all updates off. Which then could leave you vulnerable to an un-patched exploit etc.

If like myself you still use Windows 7 (mostly), i find getting the 'security only' updates from the Microsoft Update Catalog the best way to go currently:

http://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/home.aspx

(i detail a lot of stuff like this in that thread i made at the RPS forums). Once on the site you need to enter a KB number or something like 'Windows 7 Security Only' to get the required 'safe' update bundle for your specific platform (no windows 10-like spyware junk bundled in it like the regular Windows Update tries to give you). Then you take the '.msu' file and put it on your desktop and double-click it to install it. There is also an .exe option. That is now the method i use to update my Windows 7 PC's especially as they started to back-bundle all the windows 10 telemetry software on later updates for 7 and 8.

 

[RidingTheFlow]

You can turn it off. I have all my Win 10 PC's with updates turned off.

You can turn all updates off, but this way you also lose stability & security updates.
Also certain software (like Office or Visual Studio) eventually stops working if Win 10 version is too old and out of support - because they are not testing releases against these versions anymore.

 

[Mot]

I've had nothing but problems with all versions of Windows since I began using Windows in 99(?). I chose the 'free' upgrade from 8.1 to 10 not long after it released because 8.1 had somehow corrupted my master boot tables twice in about a year of use. I've turned 10 auto updates off because of issues I had when it first released (although it is better now, a little. And it helps knowing hOw To USe too). I turn it back on every now and then when I have the data to spare on a free flowing torrent of updates. Except for the last time I updated Win 10, every other time it has had some sort of issue downloading the updates. Just now when I tried to get the Fall Creators update it sticks on 1% when downloading, with no internet download activity at all. The best solution I found so far is to wait 4-7 hours. :S

I loved MS DOS... once I had taught myself how to use it with no help or documentation.

 

[Asp Explorer]

I loved MS DOS... once I had taught myself how to use it with no help or documentation.

MS DOS used to come with a lovely big manual that taught you exactly how to use it

CPM was a bit more finicky, and VMS had many people simply left scratching their heads.

As for UNIX - consulting beardies was usually the only option

 

[Zeeman]

You can turn all updates off, but this way you also lose stability & security updates.
Also certain software (like Office or Visual Studio) eventually stops working if Win 10 version is too old and out of support - because they are not testing releases against these versions anymore.

True, hence why I suggest to use the infoirmation I gave with research first. I use an old version of Office, and everything else is non M$ and doesn't care what version of Windows I'm on.

To be clear, I will eventually perform updates, as the security patches will be worth while, it's just that I'll pick and choose when I do it, and usually also spend the time to work out which services to disable in the registry/services settings.

I really don't like the way M$ is going (it's even worse than Apple!), and would dearly love Linux ED... Though I doubt that's going to happen any time soon.

As for software packages that stop working... One of our clients has us running a small scale phone support line, operated by 3 staff, using VOIP, connected to the CLient's PC's (which still run on XP), an we needed Cisco VPN to make it go.

Of course, all our PC's are pretty much brand new, and we had Win 10 Pro licenses for them all, but Cisco VPN doesn't work with Win 10. Except it does... If you install another program and then make a registry change, it all works wonderfully! Until Windows decides to do a random update and disable it. Then you have to go into the registry again to fix it. Which I did often, at 3am, from my bedroom because I'd get panicked messages from staff saying they can't log in...

The solution, of course, was to just disable the updates, and do them in my own time (like, you know, when the staff were not trying to work - which is basically a 2hr window each day, as each PC is used by several staff members on various shifts. M$, of course, clearly do not believe such things happen, as I can only set the "do not update during work hours" setting thing to 12 hours max). It amazes me how difficult the people we pay to provide us with these software packages are making things.

It's almost as though they have forgotten who is paying who...

Anyway...
/rant

Z...

 

[RidingTheFlow]

Using Win 10 in enterprise environment is nightmare IMO, and sanest decision is to stay on Win 7, which still officially supported and will be for many years.

E.g. Visual Studio 2017 is not supported and won't work well on Win 10 RTM or Win 10 LTSB. While it's officially supported on Win 7 and works here perfectly fine. Which is kind of ridiculous.

However, for my home PC I kind of was pushed to Win 10 since it has greatly improved High DPI display support (I use 4K monitor). Also certain games now require newest DirectX which requires Win 10. But I use feature upgrade group policy delay/disable to stay off them for long enough that MS finally fixes them (by using normal users as guinea pigs).

 

[Polygonal Spaceship]

The biggest problem I have with Windows is that MS assumes users* are no longer smart enough to look after their own devices. When I first got a Windows PC, it wasn't an issue. Then I got connected to the internet, and on dial-up you pretty much had to tell Windows to check for updates, then pick which ones to install.

These days they seem to be taking an authoritarian view: "you WILL install this update because we say you need to". You can't decline it, you can't say it's not relevant (I had an install of Office which, despite only having Word on my PC, insisted on grabbing update for Excel, Outlook, PowerPoint, Access...), they rarely tell you what the update is for and why they're doing it, and then the bloomin' thing sometime reboots to install updates without warning.

And the useless stuff: Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool, for instance, which used to install and force a reboot every month. MS didn't trust my (non-MS) virus, firewall, spyware, malware etc. tools and my strict "don't download from non-trusted sources" policy. Or Win 10's insistance on giving you things you don't want and can't remove - an app store, an X-Box app, OneNote, Cortana, Skype - the list is endless.

I'm seriously thinking about going over to Linux full-time (if only I was smart enough to do it well). Right now I don't do anything on Windows I couldn't do elsewhere anyway, but it drives me mad not to have full control over the machine I bought and paid for. To my mind it's like... I bought a car from Ford, and every couple of weeks the guy from the dealership comes over uninvited to check the oil, water, wiper fluid, tyre pressure - I just want to shake my fist and shout "Get off my property!"

* - Individuals, in a home-use context. I appreciate that enterprise versions are different even in small businesses, and all but the very smallest have a dedicated IT department who manage everything and try to stop the terminally clueless (or the incorrigible slackers) from deliberately or inadvertantly installing things they shouldn't, whilst attempting to ensure that Windows auto-updates don't take out business-critical stuff during working hours.

 

[Patrick_68000]

The biggest problem I have with Windows is that MS assumes users* are no longer smart enough to look after their own devices. When I first got a Windows PC, it wasn't an issue. Then I got connected to the internet, and on dial-up you pretty much had to tell Windows to check for updates, then pick which ones to install.

These days they seem to be taking an authoritarian view: "you WILL install this update because we say you need to". You can't decline it, you can't say it's not relevant (I had an install of Office which, despite only having Word on my PC, insisted on grabbing update for Excel, Outlook, PowerPoint, Access...), they rarely tell you what the update is for and why they're doing it, and then the bloomin' thing sometime reboots to install updates without warning.

And the useless stuff: Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool, for instance, which used to install and force a reboot every month. MS didn't trust my (non-MS) virus, firewall, spyware, malware etc. tools and my strict "don't download from non-trusted sources" policy. Or Win 10's insistance on giving you things you don't want and can't remove - an app store, an X-Box app, OneNote, Cortana, Skype - the list is endless.

I'm seriously thinking about going over to Linux full-time (if only I was smart enough to do it well). Right now I don't do anything on Windows I couldn't do elsewhere anyway, but it drives me mad not to have full control over the machine I bought and paid for. To my mind it's like... I bought a car from Ford, and every couple of weeks the guy from the dealership comes over uninvited to check the oil, water, wiper fluid, tyre pressure - I just want to shake my fist and shout "Get off my property!"

* - Individuals, in a home-use context. I appreciate that enterprise versions are different even in small businesses, and all but the very smallest have a dedicated IT department who manage everything and try to stop the terminally clueless (or the incorrigible slackers) from deliberately or inadvertantly installing things they shouldn't, whilst attempting to ensure that Windows auto-updates don't take out business-critical stuff during working hours.

Win 10 closed the window of freedom

 

[Polygonal Spaceship]

Win 10 closed the window of freedom

Well, a closed window is as good as any other if you want to practise defenestration. You just have to throw a little harder...

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

i just read that the latest win7 update disabled epson's dot matrix printers.

so you don't need to upgrade to win10 to be affected by update fails.

 

[Polygonal Spaceship]

i just read that the latest win7 update disabled epson's dot matrix printers.

Reminds me of my last job. Management wanted to strictly control the amount of money we were spending on printing documents, and the subsequent shredding. I suggested we give everyone an at-desk dot matrix printer.

"But why? What will that achieve?"
"Well the next idiot who prints a 500-page document will probably be beaten to death by irate colleagues within 20 minutes..."

We got networked MFDs (scanner-printer-copier) instead.

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

Reminds me of my last job. Management wanted to strictly control the amount of money we were spending on printing documents, and the subsequent shredding. I suggested we give everyone an at-desk dot matrix printer.

"But why? What will that achieve?"
"Well the next idiot who prints a 500-page document will probably be beaten to death by irate colleagues within 20 minutes..."

We got networked MFDs (scanner-printer-copier) instead.

until the first one installs custom drivers:
[video=youtube;dwWneXP_JTo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwWneXP_JTo[/video]

 

[RidingTheFlow]

I'm seriously thinking about going over to Linux full-time (if only I was smart enough to do it well). Right now I don't do anything on Windows I couldn't do elsewhere anyway, but it drives me mad not to have full control over the machine I bought and paid for. To my mind it's like... I bought a car from Ford, and every couple of weeks the guy from the dealership comes over uninvited to check the oil, water, wiper fluid, tyre pressure - I just want to shake my fist and shout "Get off my property!"

I am thinking moving to Linux too, this way:
- Windows 7 installed as host OS, for gaming usage only

- Linux installed on virtual machine, for all other usage

This way I am going to avoid pains of dual-boot.

 

[Polygonal Spaceship]

This way I am going to avoid pains of dual-boot.

What's so bad about dual-boot?

I admit I am not well-versed in virtual machines, but I'd be tempted to do it the other way - then I could take a "clean" image of the VM, and just reflash it if Windows causes me any grief.

 

[Asp Explorer]

I admit I am not well-versed in virtual machines, but I'd be tempted to do it the other way - then I could take a "clean" image of the VM, and just reflash it if Windows causes me any grief.

I can't say enough good things about VM's

Just tinker around with them, learn how they can be snapshotted and restored, assigned physical and logical and virtual devices, moved between physical machines, networked in themselves, nested within themselves, used for retro gaming, firewalling, caching, DNS, all sorts of goodies.

And if one somehow ends up trashed or filled to the brim with malware for the lulz, two clicks and it's right back where you started with a completely clean slate

 

[Polygonal Spaceship]

Just tinker around with them, learn how they can be snapshotted and restored, assigned physical and logical and virtual devices, moved between physical machines, networked in themselves, nested within themselves, used for retro gaming, firewalling, caching, DNS, all sorts of goodies.

Last time I did that with a computer, I broke it. (To be fair, I didn't understand partitioning at the time, and tried to force a Linux install to run from a single partition on a single HD. Oops.)

But yep, they sound easy to manage - and quicker to restore than, say, using a OEM recovery disc. Although they tend to be images these days. Also potentially good for trying to cleanse known infected files, recover the data in an environment where it's easy to avoid contaminating your main OS.

Someone, somewhere, is using nested VMs like some kind of digital matroshka doll. I'm not sure I want to know why, or which OSs. Perhaps it's Windows all the way down...