Research on Griefing - a few excerpts

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I don't know about everybody else, but I really like this Bob Lighthouse guy.

Please don't let that influence you if you see me flying about in open.
I won't call you a griefer, promise!

But back to the social science-y stuff.
I think this is a much more concrete phenomena that we can see here and elsewhere.
It's related to the "othering" we see so often when people want to take sides.

fundamental attribution error (FAE), also known as the correspondence bias or attribution effect, is the claim that in contrast to interpretations of their own behavior, people place undue emphasis on internal characteristics of the agent (character or intention), rather than external factors, in explaining other people's behavior. The effect has been described as "the tendency to believe that what people do reflects who they are".[

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error

I suggest much of this thread and the "research" posted falls under that category.

It should be noted that "othering" (You evil griefers...! etc) is also a nefarious anti-intellectual silencing and bullying technique, and one that is a hallmark of postmodernism.

http://fightingpostmodernism.org/postmodernist-tactics/


Don't fall for it folks!
;)
 
Yeah, he knows their lingo. It's a lot more effective than just grunting and flinging your poo at them, like I do :)


There's a time and a place for everything I suppose.

I actually came across a really good article about this last night, and I neglected to save it.
Searching again now but I'm failing for the moment.

It discussed how Bartle's taxonomy is fine for game devs and some discussions, but suggested (and I certainly agree) that trying to use that lens (Oh yes I did) backwards by trying to cram "people" into such narrow boxes doesn't work.
That's the reification fallacy.

"All models are wrong, but some are useful."
George EP Box
 

Deleted member 115407

D
Pure fiction. Right?

I was pretty out of it by the time my wingmates and I got together at the last CG. I recall helping to kill an Asp, but there wasn't much conversation.

There was another Asp, though, a while back. My wingmate had Pacifiers on a FAS and I was running a Viper IV with corrosive multis. He ignored our hail and we both fired "warning shots" at the same time. He literally disintegrated in an instant. Literally. I don't recall us talking all sexual assaulty about it, but man the laughing. We laughed and laughed. It was really funny :)

There's a time and a place for everything I suppose.

I actually came across a really good article about this last night, and I neglected to save it.
Searching again now but I'm failing for the moment.

It discussed how Bartle's taxonomy is fine for game devs and some discussions, but suggested (and I certainly agree) that trying to use that lens (Oh yes I did) backwards by trying to cram "people" into such narrow boxes doesn't work.
That's the reification fallacy.

"All models are wrong, but some are useful."
George EP Box

If you find it, I'd like to read it.
 
Seems I misread the target audience initially as I was just passing over it, but anyhow here's the gist of it:


Everyone is Just One Type

No matter what model or taxonomy you use, the likelihood is this is just not true. We probably display all types in our personality, just in different amounts and in different contexts (more on that in a moment)

Your Type is Your Type and That’s It

A good example of how wrong this is comes from Bartle’s own player types. He demonstrates that over time players change their types. So for instance, they may come in as a Griefer (part of the killer pair), but over time evolve into a Friend type, based on their experiences in the system.


...People often quote the number of users who have taken the Bartle test, to show how valid the results are. It is important to remember two things about that. First, Bartle didn’t create the test and second, those results had no influence in the design of the types. He created his through observation and interview and for a very specific set of people – MMO players.

Creating a reliable test is a long process that requires a great deal of iteration and research. If you base everything in a very specific group of people, for example, students, then your test may well be statistically reliable, but only for students! You need to test with a much larger and more varied group of people to get truely reliable tests.



People are complex and many do not like the idea that you want to just label them as a single type – and rightly so. Types are there to inform designers of different perspectives to consider when building solutions. That is why I am so keen on using my types as lenses rather than rigid design frameworks.

https://www.gamified.uk/2017/09/13/the-trouble-with-types/


He totally gets it, imo.
 
Seems I misread the target audience initially as I was just passing over it, but anyhow here's the gist of it:

https://www.gamified.uk/2017/09/13/the-trouble-with-types/

He totally gets it, imo.

Interesting read, it reinforces my opinion that blocking anyone I consider to fall on the wrong side of the "bit of a " test on an individual basis without ever trying to qauntify players/ishness/share blocklists is the best way to being game happy as it's tailored exactly to me.

It also shows how inspired the modes are in ED as they allow players to similarly tailor their experience.
 
Two Commanders Walk into a Bar…

Commander Leering:
“Dude, did you get any last night?”
Commander Jeering:
“Totally. It was great.”
Commander Leering:
“Awesome – don’t just leave me hangin bro, tell me about it.”
Commander Jeering:
“Yeah so I was totally bored, you know, there’s nothing goin on so I drove down to Eravate to check out the new meat.”
Commander Leering:
“What were you cruising in?”
Commander Jeering:
“Stupid question n00b – my Corvette obvi, chicks dig the Corvette.”
Commander Leering:
“Cool your thermal shock there dude, just trying to get the juicy details you know.”
Commander Jeering:
“Don’t worry about it dude, I posted it on youtube if I forget anything. How else could she relive the amazing glory of Commander Jeering over and over?”
Commander Leering:
“OK man, get down to it – or is this another ‘I had her but she hi-waked away’ or a ‘stupid cheater c-logged’ story’ ?”
Commander Jeering:
“No man this is the real deal. There she was sliding out of the slot, petite you know – a little Hauler. Not like totally new but you know – Mostly Harmless.”
Commander Leering:
“You’re biowasting me man, I thought every new Inara license came with a Mobius membership.”
Commander Leering:
“Yeah well this one did have long enough space legs to walk down to the Forum Bar and find out about guys like me HA HA HA HA!”
Commander Jeering:
“Go on, was she you know - fast? Did you give her a little bump just to let her know you were interested?”
Commander Leering:
“Nah, I wanted to take my time. You know I’m like a wolf stalking my prey. She’s my prey – I want her to know it’s me when I finish her. She needs to know that I own this space – I say who comes and goes you know.”
Commander Jeering:
“Ok ok, I get it. You want to give her the big interdDICtion first. You are the man!”
Commander Leering:
“Yeah, so I scan her little wake and follow her to this “high security” system. – I think ‘Cool, I can have an audience when I do this to her’.”
Commander Jeering:
“Cops, that’s funny. ‘A crime has been committed – blah , blah , stay still and let me scan you blah, blah’ – those guys just like to watch.”
Commander Leering:
“Yeah they’re real sickos. I’ve been doing this biowaste for years – and maybe you get like a fine or something. Drop em’ a sidey and all is forgiven. Hell, what are they going to do, take away my parking space – there’s like 20,000 of them you know. They’re a joke. Damn – that’s IF they show up. In space – no one can hear you scream you know. HA HA HA HA! Stupid cops.”
Commander Jeering:
“All right, all right so you tracked her down, aaaaand…”
Commander Leering:
“So, I interDICt her, and she fights it.”
Commander Jeering:
“Oh – my – Gawd. She FIGHTS it?? Oh, she’s totally asking for it then. She WANTS you to do it to her. EVERYONE knows you’re supposed to drop down like you’re going to take it and then run. Jeez she really was young, wasn’t she? Yeah – she totally deserved it”
Commander Leering:
“We both know how it goes right? She loses – I can see her little hauler spinning and spinning. She’s dancing there and I’m really hot for her you know.”
Commander Jeering:
“So did you give her a dose of Scramble Spectrum to soften her up, or maybe a little Thermal Shock to lift up her skirt?”
Commander Leering:
“Ha Ha Ha Ha! That’s the best part! She didn’t even have ANY shields man. Normally I’d put a little Containment Missile in her drink – you know – make her dizzy and slow so she can’t run. But I ain’t gonna waste it on someone so obviously desperate to get done by someone like me.”
Commander Jeering:
“This just gets better and better. Did she have anything to say?”
Commander Leering:
“ You know I like to talk my time man. I ain’t now “Wham bam thank you ma’am” kind of dude.”
Commander Jeering:
“And what did she say?”
Commander Leering:
“The usual. ‘Why are you doing this? You can have all of my cargo. I just started. Wait… Blah Blah Blah’ . They can be so annoying you know. I just pretend to listen. Girls like that, makes em’ think you’re sensitive you know – right up until you do them.”
Commander Jeering:
“So how did you stop her?”
Commander Leering:
“I pulled out my big fat G5 Gawd powered Super Penetrator rail gun and gave her a hot load right through her jiggle physics thrusters. Sometimes they can’t take my Super Penetrator you know, and they pop right there.”
Commander Jeering:
“Ha – nice. I’m an advanced plasma man myself – just love that ‘pew – pew’ sound when you smack em’ on the stern.”
Commander Leering:
“So she’s sitting there sighing and puffing, little fire coming out. Sort of sliding around on the black velvet. She’s ready you know. Flying around all out in the Open. No shields. Not really paying attention. She wants this. They all really want this when the act like this. She’s asking for it. I’m the guy to give it to her.”
Commander Jeering:
“How did you finally do it to her?”
Commander Leering:
“Oh - it was epic. I unleashed about a hundred Packhounds that swarmed all over her – it was a huge load. Insane really. Satisfying. I got mine – and I think she got hers – well she definitely did you know.”
Commander Jeering:
“You are the man. Any last gasp?”
Commander Leering:
“The usual. ‘You’re such an A-hat. Blah blah.’ This is all FDEV approved you know – no harm no foul. Don’t know why they get all salty – but you know you did it right when they do. I hear there’s like a station on fire – I think I’ll go there next.”
Commander Jeering:
“Gawd that’s great. Can you send me the link?”

This is awesomely written.
That said, as a metaphor, it's absurdly offensive to gankers…
 

Goose4291

Banned
Two Commanders Walk into a Bar…

Commander Leering:
“Dude, did you get any last night?”
Commander Jeering:
“Totally. It was great.”
Commander Leering:
“Awesome – don’t just leave me hangin bro, tell me about it.”
Commander Jeering:
“Yeah so I was totally bored, you know, there’s nothing goin on so I drove down to Eravate to check out the new meat.”
Commander Leering:
“What were you cruising in?”
Commander Jeering:
“Stupid question n00b – my Corvette obvi, chicks dig the Corvette.”
Commander Leering:
“Cool your thermal shock there dude, just trying to get the juicy details you know.”
Commander Jeering:
“Don’t worry about it dude, I posted it on youtube if I forget anything. How else could she relive the amazing glory of Commander Jeering over and over?”
Commander Leering:
“OK man, get down to it – or is this another ‘I had her but she hi-waked away’ or a ‘stupid cheater c-logged’ story’ ?”
Commander Jeering:
“No man this is the real deal. There she was sliding out of the slot, petite you know – a little Hauler. Not like totally new but you know – Mostly Harmless.”
Commander Leering:
“You’re biowasting me man, I thought every new Inara license came with a Mobius membership.”
Commander Leering:
“Yeah well this one did have long enough space legs to walk down to the Forum Bar and find out about guys like me HA HA HA HA!”
Commander Jeering:
“Go on, was she you know - fast? Did you give her a little bump just to let her know you were interested?”
Commander Leering:
“Nah, I wanted to take my time. You know I’m like a wolf stalking my prey. She’s my prey – I want her to know it’s me when I finish her. She needs to know that I own this space – I say who comes and goes you know.”
Commander Jeering:
“Ok ok, I get it. You want to give her the big interdDICtion first. You are the man!”
Commander Leering:
“Yeah, so I scan her little wake and follow her to this “high security” system. – I think ‘Cool, I can have an audience when I do this to her’.”
Commander Jeering:
“Cops, that’s funny. ‘A crime has been committed – blah , blah , stay still and let me scan you blah, blah’ – those guys just like to watch.”
Commander Leering:
“Yeah they’re real sickos. I’ve been doing this biowaste for years – and maybe you get like a fine or something. Drop em’ a sidey and all is forgiven. Hell, what are they going to do, take away my parking space – there’s like 20,000 of them you know. They’re a joke. Damn – that’s IF they show up. In space – no one can hear you scream you know. HA HA HA HA! Stupid cops.”
Commander Jeering:
“All right, all right so you tracked her down, aaaaand…”
Commander Leering:
“So, I interDICt her, and she fights it.”
Commander Jeering:
“Oh – my – Gawd. She FIGHTS it?? Oh, she’s totally asking for it then. She WANTS you to do it to her. EVERYONE knows you’re supposed to drop down like you’re going to take it and then run. Jeez she really was young, wasn’t she? Yeah – she totally deserved it”
Commander Leering:
“We both know how it goes right? She loses – I can see her little hauler spinning and spinning. She’s dancing there and I’m really hot for her you know.”
Commander Jeering:
“So did you give her a dose of Scramble Spectrum to soften her up, or maybe a little Thermal Shock to lift up her skirt?”
Commander Leering:
“Ha Ha Ha Ha! That’s the best part! She didn’t even have ANY shields man. Normally I’d put a little Containment Missile in her drink – you know – make her dizzy and slow so she can’t run. But I ain’t gonna waste it on someone so obviously desperate to get done by someone like me.”
Commander Jeering:
“This just gets better and better. Did she have anything to say?”
Commander Leering:
“ You know I like to talk my time man. I ain’t now “Wham bam thank you ma’am” kind of dude.”
Commander Jeering:
“And what did she say?”
Commander Leering:
“The usual. ‘Why are you doing this? You can have all of my cargo. I just started. Wait… Blah Blah Blah’ . They can be so annoying you know. I just pretend to listen. Girls like that, makes em’ think you’re sensitive you know – right up until you do them.”
Commander Jeering:
“So how did you stop her?”
Commander Leering:
“I pulled out my big fat G5 Gawd powered Super Penetrator rail gun and gave her a hot load right through her jiggle physics thrusters. Sometimes they can’t take my Super Penetrator you know, and they pop right there.”
Commander Jeering:
“Ha – nice. I’m an advanced plasma man myself – just love that ‘pew – pew’ sound when you smack em’ on the stern.”
Commander Leering:
“So she’s sitting there sighing and puffing, little fire coming out. Sort of sliding around on the black velvet. She’s ready you know. Flying around all out in the Open. No shields. Not really paying attention. She wants this. They all really want this when the act like this. She’s asking for it. I’m the guy to give it to her.”
Commander Jeering:
“How did you finally do it to her?”
Commander Leering:
“Oh - it was epic. I unleashed about a hundred Packhounds that swarmed all over her – it was a huge load. Insane really. Satisfying. I got mine – and I think she got hers – well she definitely did you know.”
Commander Jeering:
“You are the man. Any last gasp?”
Commander Leering:
“The usual. ‘You’re such an A-hat. Blah blah.’ This is all FDEV approved you know – no harm no foul. Don’t know why they get all salty – but you know you did it right when they do. I hear there’s like a station on fire – I think I’ll go there next.”
Commander Jeering:
“Gawd that’s great. Can you send me the link?”

21bc93.jpg
 

Goose4291

Banned
Wasn't it murder in 2015? I think this bogus analogy does fit out year. But its 'cool' to see some here like to take advantage of the problem of sexual assault to support their view of in-game behavior. Not sure if it was needed to post that huge wall of analogy, but whatever got his boat floating...

I think it was 2015: The year that pvp was like sexual assault and RL Murder

Then 2016: The year of PvP being like real life terrorists, or players who arent in the '84 club so dont get what ED is all about.

2017 has definitely been: the year of PvPers have serious psychological issues. I wonder what joys 2018 holds? :D
 
I think it was 2015: The year that pvp was like sexual assault and RL Murder

Then 2016: The year of PvP being like real life terrorists, or players who arent in the '84 club so dont get what ED is all about.

2017 has definitely been: the year of PvPers have serious psychological issues. I wonder what joys 2018 holds? :D

Maybe we'll go retro and call it sinful? :)
 
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