Going Surround - Seeking Sound Advice

VR andysonofbob

VR andysonofbob
Soz for that awful pun!

My Oculus headphones have broken so I have had to revert to my Hyper Xs; these are noticably better than the CV1s so I can deal with the loss.

However, as of very recently, I now run my PC through my main stereo, which I have set up to replace my old desktop speakers. ASTONISHING sound! But the engine sounds are in the wrong place coming from the two speakers!

SO

I am on a bit of a budget. But want to go surround. A diagram of my room is below and I think you will agree that I will only be able to go 4 speakers plus bass without upsetting everyone with cables etc. But you guys might know better...

I don't have a soundcard, I would rather not have one. My motherboard is pretty old now BUT was half decent at the time and the reviewers (at the time) said the onboard 8-channel HD audio was OK. Frankly, my youth spent rocking in bands and crashing out inside speakers in the middle of fields have destroyed the fidelity of my hearing so I think a decent sound card is wasted on me!

Questions:
  • With 4 speakers + bass, will I be able to get at least as good quality as the software surround on the CV1 headphones?
  • Or can you envisage another way to squeeze in another speaker?
  • The mb does have plenty of sound jacks for different speakers etc., but pressumably I will need to sacrifice my stereo, if only to balance the sounds (two quality front speakers, two lesser rear speakers)?
  • I have a budget of, absolute max, kids will have to go hungry etc., £200, but the sales are coming...
  • I have 2 decent stands and 2 makeshift
  • I live in the UK
  • Longest cable for the right rear speaker will need to be ~6m
  • And... Any other tips gratefully received!

Quick diagram of room
gS6euOc.jpg


Many thanks for any advice! :)
 
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Mesolithic

M
For a number of years, on-board sound has been more than good enough for the average end user and properly positioned speakers will be more "positional" than headphones.

You could just get a cheapish 5.1 powered speaker system. I have this one and am perfectly satisfied (others are available). You can always extend cables if required.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Creative-I...8&qid=1514109554&sr=8-1&keywords=creative+5.1


I also use a Y adapter from the motherboard front LR socket to run a pair of wireless headphones as well as the speakers and just turn the speakers/headphones on or off depending where I want the audio to come out of.

Only thing I would advise is that as you are in the EU, then these powered speaker systems are designed to power off if they do not receive an audio signal for a period of time (energy saving feature). There is no way to change this and it is mildly infuriating as all system sounds finish in less time than it takes the speakers to wake back up.

Regards

Meso
 
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DOMN8TOR

DOMN8TOR
andysonofbob said:
Thanks!

I went for the Logitech Z906 because they were going for £200

Where are you meant to put that fifth speaker? Above the monitor?

Also, will ED detect I have 5.1?
Click to expand...

I have my center channel speaker sitting behind my middle monitor, peaking out of the bottom. It has enough room under the monitor for the sound to be unobstructed. Also, I had to configure surround sound through the realtek application. ED was outputting the surround all the time, the audio software has to decode it if I am not mistaken.
 

VR andysonofbob

VR andysonofbob
DOMN8TOR said:
I have my center channel speaker sitting behind my middle monitor, peaking out of the bottom. It has enough room under the monitor for the sound to be unobstructed. Also, I had to configure surround sound through the realtek application. ED was outputting the surround all the time, the audio software has to decode it if I am not mistaken.
Click to expand...

Thanks!

I don't have room under my monitor - the desk is that narrow. I have to push the keyboard under the monitor to make room for joysticks. Do you think I could place it on top of the monitor, with the back resting on the wall?

Failing that, how important is that central speaker? Will it upset the surround if I don't use it?

Also, do you have the speakers set to 3D mode or 4.1?

Thanks
 
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DOMN8TOR

DOMN8TOR
The center channel is going to bring all of your voices out and is pretty important. You certainly can mount it above, but be aware that it vibrates, and resting it against a wall could cause an annoying sound if you don't isolate it. You can use some padded double-sided tape to provide isolation. The main thing is having it in front center somewhere so that the sounds and voices come out in the correct place.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bjeeug14u4krt3g/speaker%20settings.PNG?dl=0
 
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TorTorden_VR

T
I can't recommend it.
I have a modest $12k Home cinema.

I still use Headphones for VR.

One, VR can do positional audio just fine with headphones since you already have perfect head tracking.
For Elite it would probably work fine since you are facing forwards anyways, but I wouldn't lock myself into a setup becuase it "just might work ok".

Any speaker sound system MUST be tuned and calibrated for a certain facing direction, you cannot stand in a cinema and face 180, heck just 30 degrees off the center and your soundscape will collapse.

Sure if you have enough room, and enough money, you could setup something using all full range speakers but you don't.

I honestly would forget about speakers for gaming, spend your money on some decent headphones instead.
Although I have a problem with the fact that the only ones I can wear for an extended period of time is the gaming variety which has sound regardless of price, the SQ that I would like to have are those made for a more HeadFi centered use but with my big potato head they become like vice grips after an hour.
 

Beavis Tingleball

Beavis Tingleball
TorTorden said:
I can't recommend it.
I have a modest $12k Home cinema.

I still use Headphones for VR.

One, VR can do positional audio just fine with headphones since you already have perfect head tracking.
For Elite it would probably work fine since you are facing forwards anyways, but I wouldn't lock myself into a setup becuase it "just might work ok".

Any speaker sound system MUST be tuned and calibrated for a certain facing direction, you cannot stand in a cinema and face 180, heck just 30 degrees off the center and your soundscape will collapse.

Sure if you have enough room, and enough money, you could setup something using all full range speakers but you don't.

I honestly would forget about speakers for gaming, spend your money on some decent headphones instead.
Although I have a problem with the fact that the only ones I can wear for an extended period of time is the gaming variety which has sound regardless of price, the SQ that I would like to have are those made for a more HeadFi centered use but with my big potato head they become like vice grips after an hour.
Click to expand...
Polk audio TSX series and a bargain priced yamaha receiver will deliver phenomenal sound in a small to medium sized room. you don't need positional audio if you're in the middle of the sound field.
 

VR andysonofbob

VR andysonofbob
Beavis Tingleball said:
what brand stereo receiver and model video card are you using? does your receiver support 5.1? if so, you'r in luck and I can walk you through the setup
Click to expand...

Thanks. Any help gratefully received. Not sure what that meant though?! This is what I will be working with however...

The website for the "Logiteck Z906 5.1 Surround Sound Speaker System" unit

My Motherboard's website. It says it's an onboard Realteck 8 channel HD 192KHz/24-bit audio?

I mostly play cockpit games, so I guess I will be facing forward for the most part... I do like the freedom of going without headphones tbh which is why I am looking forward to experiencing it.
 
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trauts1

T
Sounds great! Headphones have difficulty with sounds behind you - no such problem with a 5.1 speaker set up. Enjoy!
 
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TorTorden_VR

T
trauts1 said:
Sounds great! Headphones have difficulty with sounds behind you - no such problem with a 5.1 speaker set up. Enjoy!
Click to expand...

That is a sound design issue and just as prevalent on surround sound speaker setups as with headphones.
Just search on YouTube for Qsound Barbershop and give a listen with a set of stereo cans. And tell me if you can't hear it.
 

VR andysonofbob

VR andysonofbob
Will the rear satellite speakers (plus bass) be man enough to produce decent engine sounds?

Will elite's audio software emulate sounds coming from above, e.g. my Hyper Xs, when firing the top mounted guns in the SRV, sound like they're above me...
 
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Brigetiol1

Brigetiol1
Hi,

I own the z906, I think it is a good option in that price range. I was thinking about a second-hand 5.1 system, but looking at the quality of mid-priced systems in the past years... they are not really built to last for 20-30 years (like my 30 years old stereo Onkyo amp), I don't like gambling :).

In one of the reviews they said, the Z906 is fine for gaming, but not good enough to listen to music, and that is also my experience. But if you like to play around with wires and stuff, you can improve the overall experience.

I wrote about my "modded" z906 a lot here :

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/336392-Uncle-Brigetiol-s-DIY-Playground-Tips-Tricks-and-Unicorns

Stage 2 starts here:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...and-Unicorns?p=5821452&viewfull=1#post5821452

A fine 5.1 system for movies and music starts around 1000 Eu, there are no miracles :( . But it is a lot of fun to fiddle with the z906 and make it sound better!

Best regards!
 

VR andysonofbob

VR andysonofbob
Amazing write up for the mods. I also run that Realteck audio! (Sadly I can't use the software because my MB is too old and the drivers only go to 8.1. I can only find the drivers and codecs on the Realtek site and they don't seem to include the application!)

Your post both excited me and depressed me regarding the z906. I do want to mainly use it to play games but also to listen to music (10% of the time) etc. I don't care too much for sound quality in movies. In your write up you mention the back speakers are not the most shouty ones. I think they are because I mainly run through canyons with constant adjustments to the ship thrusters. My MAIN concern is the engines sounding weak compared to listening to my Oculus headphones.

As a point of reference for my music fidelity sensitivity and my fidelity needs, I have been using the Oculus CV1 headphones for some time. (To my ears, these aren't as good as £50 my HyperX clouds.) As long as the z906s compare favourably to the CV1s headphones, I will be happy.

The reason I want to go surround is because I recently set up my 10 year old Pure DMX-50 micro system for the main speakers. (It has 40W RMS per the two channels and both speakers include a 5.25 inch woofer, and 19mm mylar-dome tweeter.) I have to say that I was very pleased with the sound reproduction with that, especially the music quality, but also the sound for the games. How do you reckon, basing on specs only, the z906s would compare with that?

Also, before you replaced the original bass speakers, do you remember the sound of the Disco scanner? I tried a decent pair of headphones and I noticed at the start of the Pulse there was a bass sound which went into the subsonic. I have not been able to hear that with my Hyper x clouds. I was wondering can you hear that with the z906s?

Finally, one of the websites said to use the optical digital audio cable from the motherboard to the receiver, to bypass the DAC, until the final point. Apparently this produced decent results because the DAC on the z906 was pretty good. Did you try that?
 
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Brigetiol1

Brigetiol1
Hi,

as far as I remember, when the z906 was untouched, it sounded surprisingly well together, I mean, the small satellites and the woofer worked fine together. Compared to other 2.1, 5.1 computer speaker systems and cheap home cinema systems (the few I was able to test), bass was much more precise, dynamic and integrated. I was happy with the original setup for a long time, while I played sim-games, like Assetto Corsa. And the scanner effect was "whoa" even on the original speakers:)

If you prefer strong engine sounds, there are lots of ways to make them louder, if they are weak for you, like the EQ in the Realtek app, or you can adjust the gain for every channel individually, or the speaker fill effect, bass management...

If you are happy with the DMX-50 stereo, you can easily keep it for the front left-right channel, I think, that way you can even have a 7.1 setup (plus two speakers on the side, I don't think, that sounds from above would be supported natively).

I haven't tried the z906 with optical cable, but theoretically it should give a more detailed, crisp sound, so if you are able to use optical cable, it is definitely worth to use them.

It is hard to judge a system based on some parameters. I would suggest to try it, experimenting first to listen to the original z906 system, then change the front speakers only (watch out, that the resistance should match the original speakers, if not, better use the whole DMX system with its own amp, on Line in or Aux). Your ears will tell the difference.

Again, I would like to point out, that the z906 is a good product for this price, I never regretted my choice. For this money, you can buy a stereo amp with two speakers, of course they would sound better for music, but that is far from surround gaming experience:).

I did the mods, because I have some old parts, components on my shelves, and I just hate seeing them unused and getting covered with dust. I'm a recycling maniac :). It is just fun to create Frankenstein and make it alive!

I wish you at least as much fun as I had with the z906!
 

VR andysonofbob

VR andysonofbob
Mate

I'm totally excited again.

I will need to replace the DMX stereo with the Z906 because there isn't sufficent room. But that isn't a biggie! Good to know optical will help too.

Fortunately the height will be within 10 cm above/below ear level.
Unfortunately, the front speakers will only be 75cm from me, with the rears 150-160 cms from my head.

At least I have found Win8.1's version of Realtek's HD Audio Manager works on W10 so I should be able to compensate distance. That said I am not sure if the extra distance from the rear (ship/car engine producing) speakers is a good thing! Is Elite's / PC2's / AC's etc built in audio software sufficiently advanced to produce sounds coming from further out than the speaker locations!?

Can you suggest a decent site that discusses speaker orientation and setup for 5.1 for sim rigs?

Thanks again!
 
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