The Star Citizen Thread v8

Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.

Slopey

Volunteer Moderator
But it still has a flight model. Just not a good one. Arguably, not even a poor one. But it still has one

By your own admission, you've not played 3.0.

I can tell you right now, it's not a flight model. It is simply FPS controls in space. Much like if you created a simple demo in Unity with a spaceship, turned off the gravity, and attached an FPS controller to it.
 
By your own admission, you've not played 3.0.

I can tell you right now, it's not a flight model. It is simply FPS controls in space. Much like if you created a simple demo in Unity with a spaceship, turned off the gravity, and attached an FPS controller to it.

I'm not disagreeing...just pointing out that technically speaking, any system which "models flight" is a flight model and the question as to how good or bad that model is doesn't change that.

The "flight model" in Star Citizen isn't good and lacks depth. It's simplistic and owes more to twitch based FPS gaming than space sims or any pretence of "reality". It plays to a casual audience rather than those who may look for something more substantial and it promotes more of a turrety arcady style feel and encourages jousting more than dogfighting or skill based gameplay.

It isn't any good...IMO anyway....but it is a flight model.

I'm sure that, even if it is as bad as I recall, as bad as people suggest, that there are plenty who would "like" it. The arcade style space shooter can be fun and accessible.

But...it won't be a space sim.
 
I'm not disagreeing...just pointing out that technically speaking, any system which "models flight" is a flight model and the question as to how good or bad that model is doesn't change that.

And the counter-argument is that SC doesn't really do that, and not just in the “it's just bad” sense.

It has a flight model in the same sense that using the “fly” command in Unreal presents the player with a flight model — i.e. not really. Just because you used that command doesn't mean you're modelling actual flight. All you're doing is moving around freely in 3D.

Granted, it's a bit more complicated, but the end result in SC is actually the same. Underneath all the overcomplicated stupidity of the design CIG has chosen, there is indeed a physics simulation, but it is being bound, gagged, gimpmasked, choked, and lit-matches-beneath-your-toenails:ed into behaving the way it behaves. And that's the whole point: the end goal for this “model” is to not model flight at all, but to make a physics sim behave like the “fly” command. They've layered a physics sim on top of an FPS movement model and then tortured that sim to behave like the FPS movement it is layered on top of. It's the quintessential CIG-style backwards over-engineering case.

It's not just that the whole thing doesn't behave like anything you'd ever remotely want to imply had any similarities with a flight model — it's that it models noclip. Its purpose is to remove the physics; to remove the flight; and instead to model a laggy tarpit of a point-and-click interface. At that point, calling it a flight model is… well… I wouldn't want to star a big row by calling it “wrong” so let's instead go for “lmao no, silly”. :p

e: That said, I will readily grant you that CIG wants to call it a “flight model” but that's just CIG not understanding words and being objectively, factually wrong misinformed, same with how they have completely confused themselves about what words like “fidelity” and “refactor” and “release” mean.
 
Last edited:
In SC you sit in the cockpit flying spaceships. 99.999999999% of gamers will call the mechanics of how that is being controlled 'the flight model'. You can start a huge semantics debate but that helps noone. When someone asks 'what is the difference between the flight models in ED and SC', saying 'SC doesnt have a flight model' is completely pointless and non-informative. When you say:"In the SC flight model it feels like you control a camera in noclip mode whereas in ED it feels like you control ships with varying mass' you provide some info.

Of course, if you dont want to provide information to someone asking a genuine question, but rather use the question to launch a funny insult at SC, that is also possible... :p
 
If anyone is interested I will try to visit Levski and see how that goes......

[video]https://gaming.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP7eaRr2qTw[/video]
 
If anyone is interested I will try to visit Levski and see how that goes......

[video]https://gaming.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP7eaRr2qTw[/url]

I've watched some of it... Graphics are nice but Wow FPS was around 10-12 all the time...
I've heard a few people saying they had 30-40, wonder if that was true...

Framerate was bad with 2.6 but I didn't remember it being so low...What happened how could framerate be so low with 3.0???
 
Last edited:
II've heard a few people saying they had 30-40, wonder if that was true...

From personal experience - nope :D

Unless they are on completely god level rigs that make mine look like a ZX81 - that simply isn't going to happen. Because....

Framerate was bad with 2.6 but I didn't remember it being so low...What happened how could framerate be so low with 3.0???

Network threading and server response.

It's not even dire. It's beyond poor. Someone with absolutely no clue about networking could do a better job. Seriously.
 

Slopey

Volunteer Moderator
I'm not disagreeing...just pointing out that technically speaking, any system which "models flight" is a flight model and the question as to how good or bad that model is doesn't change that.

Defend the semantics if you want, the harsh reality is that it is terrible, beyond the point of frustration.

Go dowload it (or if you can't, buy in and download it), and then comment, but I'm not going to argue semantics over the nonsense that is the current SC "flight model" - which basically means zero latency high rotation in all axis with no accounting for where you are, mass of the body you're in etc.

To call it a flight model is nonsense. It's just currently a one to one mouse mapping of the axis movement.
 
Defend the semantics if you want, the harsh reality is that it is terrible, beyond the point of frustration.

Go dowload it (or if you can't, buy in and download it), and then comment, but I'm not going to argue semantics over the nonsense that is the current SC "flight model" - which basically means zero latency high rotation in all axis with no accounting for where you are, mass of the body you're in etc.

To call it a flight model is nonsense. It's just currently a one to one mouse mapping of the axis movement.

Unless I missed something, 3.0 FM is essentially the same crap as in 2.6.3, so I dont think Tenaka or me need much convincing or additional experience. :p

If anyone is interested I will try to visit Levski and see how that goes......

[video]https://gaming.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP7eaRr2qTw[/url]

So far this is some well researched stuff. Props for that dude!
 
Well at best maybe few(2-3) frames more.....It´s really only network depended....

Well, that's a part of it, but unless you are on a horribly contested and massively oversubscribed backhaul that's not the issue.

SC performs identically at linerates of 1Mbps, 10Mbps, 100Mbps and (as far as I can push it) 125Mbps.

I'll sneak a 10Gbps backbone connection at work tomorrow - and will bet real cash there is no difference :D
 
....It´s clearly due the poor CIG netcode.....

Oh Zyll, when will you (and your kind) ever learn?

Crobberts himself has kindly come down from the mount to explain to you people - the poor performance is because you are not playing the game correctly - and if your performance is very bad, well, it's your PCs fault.

But, let's be very very clear, it's 'nothing' to do with the gazillion of geometries involved, the squillion tetrabytes of fidelity it's loading, or the fact that the engine just can't cope. And anyway, they would have delivered 120 FPS if they had delayed it 2 weeks, but they didn't want to disappoint you - honest. They would do that two-week's work now, but they won't start work again before February because, uhm, reasons, and as they're now adopting a quarterly release schedule where they no longer focus on content, they won't do it anyway. Besides, they're merging the development threads to focus on polish and new stuff, so that's exciting and you should be excited. Please don't forget that 3 years after their original proposed release date, they're still in the pre-ante-prior-alpha-prototyping-and-design stage, hence why it's important to focus in polish.

Have you considered buying an Idris? The more of them you buy, the better your FPS.*

* this message has not been endorsed by anyone, has never been proved, should not be taken as fact, may include a large amount of handwavium, any money you give them is a personal gift - please note that in this context VAT means Very Appreciative Thanks.
 
From personal experience - nope :D

Unless they are on completely god level rigs that make mine look like a ZX81 - that simply isn't going to happen. Because....



Network threading and server response.

It's not even dire. It's beyond poor. Someone with absolutely no clue about networking could do a better job. Seriously.

On the other hand Squ 42 is supposed to be solo only and the framerate of their prerecorded live was not really stable either...
 
Last edited:
On the other hand Squ 42 is supposed to be solo only and the framerate of their prerecorded live was not really stable either...

A quick look at the logs will show whats up when SQ42 releases :D

You can already see references to SQ42 in the CIG (cough) RSI launcher - as it constantly sends status telemetry to (bah - I can't be bothered to give the IP - see it yourself) and awaits reply from three other services.

One is particularly juicy :D

Gentlemen, refresh your lulzbuckets and check your logs ;)
 
Something I've read on the internet : some citizen was waiting 20-30 mins of loading on HDD just to pop at Olisar and not be able to get out of his cabin...[woah]

With Elite being on steam sales at low price, I guess lots of citizens are soon going to start playing ED...
 
Last edited:
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom