[Suggestion] Beyond - If you do not have access to station facilities, sell LEGAL cargo on the Black Market

[-VR- Max Factor]

Errr what?

I am talking about new anonymous protocols when having crime in jurisdiction. You clearly can't sell anything there.

Or I misunderstood what you disagree about?

Genuinely confused.

I will ask again. If there is a black market available which you can access under anonymous protocols, why can't you sell clean goods on the black markets as well as stolen and illegal goods?

Under anonymous protocols you can sell illegal/stolen goods on the black market, why not clean goods on the black market?

It is a simple question which I have asked you twice already but you are avoiding answering the question.

 

[Winterwalker]

Under anonymous protocols you can sell illegal/stolen goods on the black market, why not clean goods on the black market?

Because it's a further extension of game mechanics - which are already getting an improvement but one step at a time? You wouldn't for example expect them to pay full market price.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Because it's a further extension of game mechanics - which are already getting an improvement but one step at a time?

You are not answering the question but skirting around it again and again. Is there any reason why a blackmarket shouldn't take clean goods instead of illegal/stolen goods. I am not talking about whether it is in there, when it should be implemented etc. I am asking a simple question which you continue to avoid answering.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Under anonymous protocols you can sell illegal/stolen goods on the black market, why not clean goods on the black market?

As far as I saw screens you can't estabilish contact with anyone except cops at station with anonymous contacts. You can only access it to pay fines.

Or I misunderstood that and you can access black market with anonymous access?

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

As far as I saw screens you can't estabilish contact with anyone except cops at station with anonymous contacts. You can only access it to pay fines.

Or I misunderstood that and you can access black market with anonymous access?

As far as I am aware you can access black markets and some other contacts. It's not like you would access black markets through official channels anyway is it.

I just rewatched it and you can see that the black markets are not restricted in anyway under anonymous protocals.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

As far as I am aware you can access black markets and some other contacts. It's not like you would access black markets through official channels anyway is it.

As far as I watched stream three times, no, you can't. You can only access Police in case to paying fine. It is even underlined by Contacts button being able but being shown Police icon.

So no, I don't think you will be able to sell anything at these stations. That would go against idea of pushback in general. It is quite clear NeilF would want that to be different, but it just won't. He will have to travel away from system where he is wanted.

Now, as for question in general - do black market buys clean goods - yeah why not. In general though I want black market to be converted into contact like gameplay similar to Engineers, with more nuances. But yeah, selling clean goods should be possible in general that way.

 

[Winterwalker]

As far as I watched stream three times, no, you can't. You can only access Police in case to paying fine. It is even underlined by Contacts button being able but being shown Police icon.

So no, I don't think you will be able to sell anything at these stations. That would go against idea of pushback in general. It is quite clear NeilF would want that to be different, but it just won't. He will have to travel away from system where he is wanted.

Now, as for question in general - do black market buys clean goods - yeah why not. In general though I want black market to be converted into contact like gameplay similar to Engineers, with more nuances. But yeah, selling clean goods should be possible in general that way.

Was blackmarket actually redded out on the stream - or did we just see an example of a station with no blackmarket to begin with?

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

As far as I watched stream three times, no, you can't. You can only access Police in case to paying fine. It is even underlined by Contacts button being able but being shown Police icon.

So no, I don't think you will be able to sell anything at these stations. That would go against idea of pushback in general. It is quite clear NeilF would want that to be different, but it just won't. He will have to travel away from system where he is wanted.

Now, as for question in general - do black market buys clean goods - yeah why not. In general though I want black market to be converted into contact like gameplay similar to Engineers, with more nuances. But yeah, selling clean goods should be possible in general that way.

Sorry to prove you wrong eagleboy but black markets are available under anonymous protocals. The contact is the same colour as the authority contact and is not disabled. You can actually see written underneath the other contacts that are disabled:

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Sorry to prove you wrong eagleboy but black markets are available under anonymous protocals. The contact is the same colour as the authority contact asnd seems to be not disabled. You can actually see writen underneath the other contacts that they are disabled:

https://i.imgur.com/QzdPas4.jpg

Ok, then I remembered this differently.

What I understood it is access when you have fine - which you can pay and get that access anyway. It is different level of access when you are wanted, they said themselves. As I said there's big difference.

Anyway, I asked for clarification.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

It is access when you have fine - which you can pay and get that access anyway. It is different level of access when you are wanted, they said themselves. As I said there's big difference.

Anyway, I asked for clarification.

From what I can tell, when you are wanted and get scanned you can't even dock at the station. If you are not scanned you can dock and use anonymous protocals. To me, that is how it should work.

 

[NeilF]

It is access when you have fine - which you can pay and get that access anyway. It is different access when you are wanted, they said themselves. As I said there's big difference.

"It is different access when you are wanted, they said themselves." - Where? When?


I'm not aware of any distinction between the behaviour of what's available and what's not available based on a fine and/or bounty?

ie: If have a fine or a bounty, the station facilities you log on anonymously and you lose many station facilities.

I do not see why you'd have access to the BlacK Market if you have a fine, yet not have access to it if you have a Bounty.

From what I can tell, when you are wanted and get scanned you can't even dock at the station. If you are not scanned you can dock and use anonymous protocals. To me, that is how it should work.

Agreed, and during the livestream Sandro said much the same, and is existing behaviour of course!

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

From what I can tell, when you are wanted and get scanned you can't even dock at the station. If you are not scanned you can dock and use anonymous protocals. To me, that is how it should work.

Ok, I think it was like this:
* If you are wanted but not scanned, you can still sneak into station but there's very little you can do really, you have to move away to different station and either pay bounty remotely or change ship;
* If you have fine, you can access with anonymous protocols, pay it and restore full connection;
* If you get scanned while being wanted, you won't given any access, anonymous or full;

As for fine having access black market is completely ok. Sounds good idea.

 

[NeilF]

If you are wanted, you can still get to station, but you can't access almost nothing, so yeah, it is a bit breather and nothing else.

As for fine having access black market is completely ok. Sounds good idea.

Where have you got this information from?

As far as I'm aware if you dock, having a fine or a bounty is identical. You lose station facilites, but still access to some stuff anonymously, such as the Black Market.

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

Stop being so needlessly dramatic - I simply want a sensible bit of gameplay to be implemented?

So, let's run through an example, and you give me some logic rather than emotion(s)?

I have in my cargo hold:-
- Gold 1t
- Gold 1t [stolen]
- Slaves 1t [illegal]

I arrive at a station where I havea fine/bounty, so facilities are locked down. I have access to somethings though, including the black market which isn't suprising as it's a criminal network (note: This is the case it seems).

So I contact the Black Market and:-
- 1t of stolen Gold? No problem sir, we'll take that off your hands! We'll obviously have to go through significant steps to get rid of it, but here's your money.
- 1t of illegal Slaves? No problem sir, we'll take that off your hands! We'll obviously have to go through significant steps to get rid of it, but here's your money.
- 1t of legal, not-stolen Gold? Arrghh! NO! We can't take that! Of course it's easy to get rid of and we'll still offer you a reduced price! It's not like we're trying to make money!

How does that make sense? What is being achieved other that needless faff and frustration by not allowing that 1t of legal/not-stolen gold to be sold on the Black Market?

LOL! Mate! [haha]

My reply was hardly dramatic or emotional! It was just a reply!

Aside from my "needlessly dramatic" (lol) reply, here's my logic: I think the functions of the Black Market should just stay as is - if someone can't trade legal cargo at a station because the station itself is locked down or they are a criminal, then tough to be honest, otherwise it'll open a whole new can of worms that could be exploited (such as exploiting the Background Simulation where other tasks should be done instead).

The rules should stay simple so everyone knows what side of the fence they are on.

 

[Winterwalker]

What I understood it is access when you have fine - which you can pay and get that access anyway. It is different level of access when you are wanted, they said themselves. As I said there's big difference.

I like that distinction. You could see it delineate into two levels of blackmarket access (later on). One for people with fine misdemeanours and one for hardened criminals, wanted in the system. You COULD assign high paying missions to that status, offering rewards for being wanted and a new income stream for crooks.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I like that distinction. You could see it delineate into two levels of blackmarket access (later on). One for people with fine misdemeanours and one for hardened criminals, wanted in the system. You COULD assign high paying missions to that status, offering rewards for being wanted and a new income stream for crooks.

As I said I favour black markets to being like some sort of engineer contacts or even mini factions. Then you could have multiple levels of access to their network - let's say station access would be best both for you, because it is safe and secure and both sides know other one won't start to shoot. Then there would be outside station drop sites, or even their own stations with their own rules, etc.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

If you are wanted, you can still get to station, but you can't access almost nothing, so yeah, it is a bit breather and nothing else.

As for fine having access black market is completely ok. Sounds good idea.

If you are wanted, then trying to dock would be pointless then if you can't access anything. It doesn't make any sense. You can't pay a bounty off at the security contact either.

 

[Winterwalker]

If you are wanted, then trying to dock would be pointless then if you can't access anything. It doesn't make any sense. You can't pay a bounty off at the security contact either.

It looked to me like mission and passenger boards were open?

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

LOL! Mate! [haha]

My reply was hardly dramatic or emotional! It was just a reply!

Aside from my "needlessly dramatic" (lol) reply, here's my logic: I think the functions of the Black Market should just stay as is - if someone can't trade legal cargo at a station because the station itself is locked down or they are a criminal, then tough to be honest, otherwise it'll open a whole new can of worms that could be exploited (such as exploiting the Background Simulation where other tasks should be done instead).

The rules should stay simple so everyone knows what side of the fence they are on.

I don't see how it could be exploited via the BGS. If you sell goods that are legal/clean on the black market, they should have no effect on the BGS. Only smuggled goods that are illegal or stolen should have an effect. Shouldn't be too difficult to do.

It looked to me like mission and passenger boards were open?

They where, as well as the black markets and authority contacts.

 

[Winterwalker]

I don't see how it could be exploited via the BGS. If you sell goods that are legal/clean on the black market, they should have no effect on the BGS. Only smuggled goods that are illegal or stolen should have an effect. Shouldn't be too difficult to do.

I think they would, realistically speaking? If you dump hundreds of tons of cabbages into a consumer market, even if you do so illegally, there would be less demand for cabbages in the legit market. More damaging arguably .. why buy unwashed cabbages unless they're cheap and if they're cheap, why not buy extra cabbages and fewer carrots?

They where, as well as the black markets in the stream.

But was that on a wanted or on a fine status, or both times? Maybe we're just not fully clear on that yet? I know I'm not! 7 days to go.