Can piracy be financially rewarding?

[babelfisch]

With the recent mega thread on the topic of piracy I tried to come up with scenarios that would make piracy financially rewarding, but I failed. I think there are none. At least not something that wouldn't be exploitable like magically increasing the value of commodities when they are pirated.

So I guess the reward for piracy will always be the fun involved and not the money, maybe it's time that everyone accepts it (or tells me about a working solution).

PS
That doesn't mean piracy and criminal gameplay doesn't need improvements like more missions, ranks and mechanics!

PPS
This thread has a different topic so please don't see it as a duplicate.

 

[Arthur Shappey]

Perhaps in Beyond [3.0], it might be.

If you know how to do it in the current game, have patience, you can get a lot of Low Temperature Diamonds which is a non-exploitative way of making millions.

But the new mechanics in 3.0 - if they balance the rewards - may make piracy much more attractive

 

[Garix]

Define "Financially Rewarding" first.

Can you make money? Yes you can.

Can you make 200Million/Hr? Hell no.

 

[Ouberos]

It is pretty much old ground.

My take has always been that it depends on your expectations. I've been playing for 2.5yrs and still only have 500k in assets because I don't do credits per hour. I go weeks sometimes with out earning anything. Just flying around looking for volcanoes or something.

My Piracy career has (Black market trades) are higher than my trades and exploring totals so I would say it can be financially rewarding. It's just that you won't be banking a billion in a day like some folks do.

Just play the game folks and don't sweat the numbers.

I'd like to stay and discuss this endlessly but have to go out. I'll pick it up in the next thread.

 

[babelfisch]

Define "Financially Rewarding" first.

Can you make money? Yes you can.

Can you make 200Million/Hr? Hell no.

The idea was that (especially PvP) piracy should be as rewarding as trading. I don't see how this could work (unless for rares maybe). Speaking of rares, do NPCs carry rare goods? Wouldn't that be a good opportunity to increase rewards?

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I can think of a few that might work.

1) Introduce multi-tonne barrels which sell for considerably more (traded legally or otherwise) than the same mass of single-tonne barrels, but which count as "1 barrel" for hatchbreaker/collector limpets, so that they can be stolen quickly. This would also help make basic bulk trading more profitable in the bigger ships. Might require some cargo hatch redesigns to get them on or off ships...

2) Mainly for PvE piracy, introducing some military convoys or similar containing ultra-high value goods (>1 million per barrel) could work. You could get some PvP pirate-the-pirates gameplay from it too, I suppose. You could also perhaps introduce similar cargo through the mining rework, though it would be tricky to make "wait for someone else to mine it then steal it" more effective than "just mine it yourself".

3) Also for PvE piracy, piracy missions could be for small quantities of particularly valuable cargo rather than the current "steal 80t of cheap stuff" ones, and have rewards considerably higher than a basic trade transport mission for the same tonnage. (Could be extended to PvP piracy as and when wing-vs-wing missions get to be viable, but that won't be soon)

4) Introduce considerably more effective tools for disabling and transferring cargo from trade ships - some sort of hatch-to-hatch vacuum cleaner, perhaps, as well as making a general switch from "mostly shields" to "mostly hull" for defence across the whole ship range.

 

[Marra Morgan]

With the recent mega thread on the topic of piracy I tried to come up with scenarios that would make piracy financially rewarding, but I failed. I think there are none. At least not something that wouldn't be exploitable like magically increasing the value of commodities when they are pirated.

So I guess the reward for piracy will always be the fun involved and not the money, maybe it's time that everyone accepts it (or tells me about a working solution).

PS
That doesn't mean piracy and criminal gameplay doesn't need improvements like more missions, ranks and mechanics!

PPS
This thread has a different topic so please don't see it as a duplicate.

For me it's about the fun. I don't play the game to chase credits.

Diamond heists provide a nice amount of credits to cover my needs, which are few.

I'm looking forward to heisting megaships with some friends, more for the fun of it than the potential rewards, but more shiny stuff for my efforts is always welcome!

Out of curiosity, babelfisch - have you tried piracy (of both pvp and pve flavours) for yourself?

 

[777Driver]

I tried to come up with scenarios that would make piracy financially rewarding, but I failed. .

You can make around 5 mill an hour, how is that not financially rewarding? Is every profession supposed to make 100 mill an hour and involve mode switching?

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Define "Financially Rewarding" first.

Can you make money? Yes you can.

Can you make 200Million/Hr? Hell no.

This.

I can't imagine universe where piracy can scale up to being so lucrative as legit trading or passenger transportation.

However, their profit margins should be better imho.

The idea was that (especially PvP) piracy should be as rewarding as trading. I don't see how this could work (unless for rares maybe). Speaking of rares, do NPCs carry rare goods? Wouldn't that be a good opportunity to increase rewards?

Such thing is impossible.

 

[Stealthie]

I'm guessing it's probably not what "pirates" are really looking for but I suspect the key to making it work would be in providing more "outlaw" gameplay.

Currently, it doesn't matter if you're lawful or not. You're still going to be making your credits in the same ways but then going off to do other things after you've made them.

Seems like the trick would be to make "outlaw" a proper, immersive, play-style rather than just being something you do between Smeaton runs and mat' gathering.
Allow people to spend ALL their time as an outlaw and the whole "PvP profits of piracy" thing would become a side-issue because PvP piracy would simply be one more thing that you do as part of your general gameplay.

 

[Marra Morgan]

I'm guessing it's probably not what "pirates" are really looking for but I suspect the key to making it work would be in providing more "outlaw" gameplay.

Currently, it doesn't matter if you're lawful or not. You're still going to be making your credits in the same ways but then going off to do other things after you've made them.

Seems like the trick would be to make "outlaw" a proper, immersive, play-style rather than just being something you do between Smeaton runs and mat' gathering.
Allow people to spend ALL their time as an outlaw and the whole "PvP profits of piracy" thing would become a side-issue because PvP piracy would simply be one more thing that you do as part of your general gameplay.

He's got it!

 

[Ian Doncaster]

You can make around 5 mill an hour, how is that not financially rewarding? Is every profession supposed to make 100 mill an hour and involve mode switching?

That's quite a bit less than both the legal "put cargo in your hold and sell it for money" professions, though (trading > 15M/hr, mining > 30M/hr)

It absolutely can't and shouldn't be compared with missions, or combat, or exploration - those scale completely differently. But if the illegal way of obtaining cargo for sale pays considerably less than the legal ways of doing it even before any of the - soon to be increased - costs of it being illegal are considered, then there's something more than a bit wrong.

It should pay enough to tempt people into doing it over a similar legal activity, but that's not how it's set up at the moment. Legal missions tend to pay more - often considerably more - than a comparable illegal mission. Legal combat pays, illegal combat doesn't. There's not even really such a thing as illegal exploration but it wouldn't pay better if there was. Legal trading/mining pays much more than piracy. The point about crime is that it should look like easy money then you discover later when the ATRs break down your canopy that it's not ... not that it should look like a really difficult and slow way to make money even before the ATRs come after you. (The latter would be fine if Elite in general depicted a utopian crime-free setting, but none of the rest of the game does that!)

 

[Cruel_R]

I think in one of this weeks live streams Sandro briefly commented on piracy. He said something along the lines of they ARE definately looking at making piracy a lot more profitable, in line with the new crime and punishment system. Perhaps someone with a better memory than I could give less of a vague answer.

 

[Arthur Shappey]

You can make around 5 mill an hour, how is that not financially rewarding? Is every profession supposed to make 100 mill an hour and involve mode switching?

I agree. I do think - under the current game economics, making 5-10mil an hour -- at the top end, when you are high ranked, and allied etc, it reasonable. And yes, players have got spoiled with the Robigos, the Quinces, the Rheas, or the Smeatons of this world (+ several hundred less publicised options).

Piracy & Assassinations (of non-wanted NPCs) should be more rewarding than legal trades - at the expense of a C&P system that makes it very tricky to "get away with it". I think FDev do appear to slowly be going the right way

 

[777Driver]

That's quite a bit less than both the legal "put cargo in your hold and sell it for money" professions, though (trading > 15M/hr, mining > 30M/hr)

)

Agree about the balance, but I can say the same thing for most things in this game, just mentioned that Aegis want to pay me 1000 credit per tonne to haul metals 200LY to damaged stations, they also want to pay me up to 8 million credits hauling weapons on a mission cargo run 5LY to rescue ships :-/ Balance is wrong, nothing new there in the Elite dangerous universe.

OP made the following statement I tried to come up with scenarios that would make piracy financially rewarding, but I failed.


He did fail, piracy can make a relatively new player 5+ million an hour, just for pulling T9's out of warp. You don't even need to kill anyone.

I was surprised the bulk freighters held such a small amount of cargo, why not have them chock full of LTD's and other rare goods. There is potentially some good heist game-play there, if balanced correctly.

 

[Old Duck]

I'm actually considering making my 2nd CMDR a pirate / privateer, ironically because of improvements to C&P and the trade system. I've already started to experiment with being an "honorable" pirate, as in I'll only destroy a ship as a last resort; hatch-breakers and collectors will be my weapons of choice. The exception would when I play the role of privateer (taking on hostile powers via PP), and even then I'll likely show some restraint; no seal-clubbing, for example.

For now, I'm not interested in this for the credits, I'm interested in it for the fun. My future pirate CMDR will be more like Cat Woman or Robin Hood than Blackbeard. I can make money by taking other pirates on trips to tourist sites, LOL.

 

[Ouberos]

piracy can make a relatively new player 5+ million an hour, just for pulling T9's out of warp. You don't even need to kill anyone.

I was surprised the bulk freighters held such a small amount of cargo,

As a well practiced jewel thief I would put a big "potentially" infront of any Piracy earnings. There isn't a guarantee over any of it and you won't find many harmless or mostly harmless T9 out there. Anything above that reboots.

Certainly new players in Cobras or whatever are unlikely to see 5 million per HR.

Besides. The big money is in Art theft these days anyway.

 

[Muetdhiver]

Yes it could be made rewarding.

All we need is well paying heist/kidnapping/convoy raiding/megaship looting (wing) missions in anarchies.

Add NPC rare traders doing the well known routes. Tip off for rare high security convoys carrying very rare cargo. Treasure gold rush fleets.

Would make things much better.

As for PvP piracy, I think there might be a way.

Imagine that if there where say 30 anarchy systems that are hives of illegal activities and trades. Imagine that those piracy hubs offer antagonist,
very high pay PvP missions.

1) The trader missions would be senstive cargo transport/smuggling/high value passenger transport. open only. Take one of those, you become marked.
2) The pirates missions would be to steal/kiddnap any of those. upon taking one of those missions you can see marked traders in a 40ly radius. You become marked if you have a bounty/infamy high enough
3) The bounty hunter missions are to hunt the pirates that are marked (and that you can now see on the gal map).

It would be neat : 30 hubs would mean known lanes / routes, like for the rares. Picking an open only mission means you agree to PvP and are willing (so we get a soldi consensual PvP framework meshed with
the professions).

 

[babelfisch]

You can make around 5 mill an hour, how is that not financially rewarding? Is every profession supposed to make 100 mill an hour and involve mode switching?

I was talking about PvP piracy, sorry should've made that clearer.

I'm guessing it's probably not what "pirates" are really looking for but I suspect the key to making it work would be in providing more "outlaw" gameplay.

Currently, it doesn't matter if you're lawful or not. You're still going to be making your credits in the same ways but then going off to do other things after you've made them.

Seems like the trick would be to make "outlaw" a proper, immersive, play-style rather than just being something you do between Smeaton runs and mat' gathering.
Allow people to spend ALL their time as an outlaw and the whole "PvP profits of piracy" thing would become a side-issue because PvP piracy would simply be one more thing that you do as part of your general gameplay.

The changes to C&P seem to be a step in that direction.

 

[babelfisch]

As for PvP piracy, I think there might be a way.

Imagine that if there where say 30 anarchy systems that are hives of illegal activities and trades. Imagine that those piracy hubs offer antagonist,
very high pay PvP missions.

1) The trader missions would be senstive cargo transport/smuggling/high value passenger transport. open only. Take one of those, you become marked.
2) The pirates missions would be to steal/kiddnap any of those. upon taking one of those missions you can see marked traders in a 40ly radius. You become marked if you have a bounty/infamy high enough
3) The bounty hunter missions are to hunt the pirates that are marked (and that you can now see on the gal map).

It would be neat : 30 hubs would mean known lanes / routes, like for the rares. Picking an open only mission means you agree to PvP and are willing (so we get a soldi consensual PvP framework meshed with
the professions).

Sounds interesting but doesn't work with the all modes are equal approach.