The New Trading System. Amazing Improvement, but Please Balance Profits

@777Driver Any chance you could point us to a guide on how to find these kinds of missions? Not asking for “Go to system X” where you do the work for us, but if there are principles and techniques you would be willing to share that could help us that would be very much appreciated.

Outside of this awesome CG this week I haven’t had much success finding high profit routes yet in my Cutter and I do want to primarily support myself with haulage and bulk cargo trading and am not terribly interested in doing the pax missions.

Sounds like WAR / FAMINE / ATTACKED STATIONS is a good place to start.

Yeah it is not actually that difficult, just filter system state and population, supply what they need at a premium. War is good for business. The thargoid conflict out in Maia is very good for business, if you don't mind working for Aegis & Pirates.

War/Civil War: They pay more for weapons

Boom: They have higher supply of everything they normally produce and lower demand of what they normally buy. (good for missions, and picking up what you need for other system states)

Famine: They pay more for food

Outbreak: They pay more for Basic Medicines and Advanced Medicines

Lockdown removes the commodites market altogether, so no trade.

Expansion reduces wealth level, so trade should be slightly worse in all aspects. Same goes for Bust and maybe Elections.


https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6305

Hopefully in the future they will add weather and natural disasters into the mix. Paying a premium hauling shelters to a port that has been hit hard hard by massive storm, or an earthquake scenario requires passenger evacuation and medical goods.

From the DDF

Weather (Severe) – Severe weather (includes earthquakes, stellar flare events and other natural disasters)
Has a negative influence on Standard of Living and Wealth.
 
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Yeah it is not actually that difficult, just filter system states, supply what they need at a premium. War is good for business. The thargoid conflict out in Maia is very good for business, if you don't mind working for Aegis & Pirates.

Thanks so much! You are one of the most helpful CMDR’s on the forums. Please enjoy some rep and my gratitude!
 
Always amazes me how players think that getting more for less will improve a game. Millions of credits per hour seems like pinball scores. Imagine how dull Star Wars would have been if Han Solo had earned this much for a passenger mission...
 
Yeah it is not actually that difficult, just filter system states, supply what they need at a premium. War is good for business. The thargoid conflict out in Maia is very good for business, if you don't mind working for Aegis & Pirates.

War/Civil War: They pay more for weapons

Boom: They have higher supply of everything they normally produce and lower demand of what they normally buy. (good for missions, and picking up what you need for other system states)

Famine: They pay more for food

Outbreak: They pay more for Basic Medicines and Advanced Medicines

Lockdown removes the commodites market altogether, so no trade.

Expansion reduces wealth level, so trade should be slightly worse in all aspects. Same goes for Bust and maybe Elections.


https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6305

As a further guide the other week I was delivering basic medicines to a refinery outpost and making 900k profit in a python. I was then taking metals back from the outpost to the high tech station i got the medicines from making 450k
I would also suppliment the profits by checking if there were delivery missions to said high tech station or outpost as sometimes mixing and matching missions with trade produces better results.

Hopefully the changes in the galaxy map in verison 3.0 will also reduce peoples dependency on EDDB and other trade tools, as the existing mechanics do allow you to use galaxy map filters to highlight potential profit bonanzas and key routes.
For example you can filter the galaxy map by population and also economy type. This can help you identify systems with large landing pads.

Powerplay is another under used resource as this gives profit bonuses for certain products. Find systems run by differing power play powers with bonuses that compliment each other and you are quids in.
 
Always amazes me how players think that getting more for less will improve a game. Millions of credits per hour seems like pinball scores. Imagine how dull Star Wars would have been if Han Solo had earned this much for a passenger mission...

Unfortunately far too many see the game through those eyes.
Personally I wouldn't mind something to spend money on... a cash syphon of sorts would make making money worthwhile, the best and longest lasting games have a cash sink of some sort whether it's Skill levelling, a heavy tax, your army, an army of servants, or even food for the poor... I don't care, I just hope that ED has something in mind for us to spend all the cash on.

Or the ever unpopular ROLLBACK idea!
 
Or the ever unpopular ROLLBACK idea!

Which considering any change at this point in time, after so many have taken advantage of exploits would be the proper way to "balance" the game...

Implement changes, reset everyone back to zero.

For which I don't agree with- I'd just like people to use some common (or uncommon, as it were) sense when thinking of implementing "balance" changes in regard to game income.
 
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Yeah it is not actually that difficult, just filter system state and population, supply what they need at a premium. War is good for business. The thargoid conflict out in Maia is very good for business, if you don't mind working for Aegis & Pirates.

War/Civil War: They pay more for weapons

Boom: They have higher supply of everything they normally produce and lower demand of what they normally buy. (good for missions, and picking up what you need for other system states)

Famine: They pay more for food

Outbreak: They pay more for Basic Medicines and Advanced Medicines

Lockdown removes the commodites market altogether, so no trade.

Expansion reduces wealth level, so trade should be slightly worse in all aspects. Same goes for Bust and maybe Elections.


https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6305

Hopefully in the future they will add weather and natural disasters into the mix. Paying a premium hauling shelters to a port that has been hit hard hard by massive storm, or an earthquake scenario requires passenger evacuation and medical goods.

From the DDF

Weather (Severe) – Severe weather (includes earthquakes, stellar flare events and other natural disasters)
Has a negative influence on Standard of Living and Wealth.

Just wanting to throw in there, Goemon did a pretty good guide about this, though I don't know where it is at the moment... (paging Dr. Goemon?)

There are however even more commodities affected than what 777Driver lists. For example,

Boom state: Ups the price of military-grade fabrics significantly. Normally 300-odd credits, they become =~ 1,500 on a buy-low and 3,200 on a sell high. So if you source them from a non-Boom system and sell them at Military, you'll add even more profit.
This state also affects the price of Painite and LTDs by around 10-20k credits per unit.

Similar also happens for Medical Diagnostic Scanners, when shipped to Service economies. There's probably tonnes more I don't know about (eddb-warrioring, Insulating Membranes has a maximum spread of ~ 5,000cr profit, compared to Palladium whose maximal spread is only ~ 2,000, for example. Don't know if that's states or something else).

It's already been mentioned, but if you just ship 100t of different types of weapons to a civil war system, there's tonnes of missions available from the boards for these weapons for a better profit. This should be the same for War state usually, but the boards are bugged for that, sposed to be fixed in the next major update.

You don't need EDDB to take advantage of this though.... it's usually not updated fast enough for the state changes and you're better looking in-game for these situations.

One of my favourites is finding a system:
- In a famine state
- with multiple stations
- and agricultural economy
- and one of the agricultural stations is owned by a faction *not* in famine.

You go to the mission boards and the faction in famine has *tonnes* of in-system missions shipping food (as the station is owned by someone not in famine) to themselves in that system. And once you take all those missions, you can load up with other food to just turn a profit at the other end.

Tz8zQCR.png
 
Another option would be to introduce multi-tonne commodities. We know multi-tonne things exist and need transporting, because that's what happens when we ask for a module transfer. So, introduce some multi-tonne items (in powers of 2 for size) for all goods types which have extremely high profit margins - a 64t multibarrel should get 10-100x the trade profit of 64 1t barrels (and they should go up as high as 512t)

That way the earnings of trade can be kept balanced for larger ships - because you need the big cargo bays to be able to carry even one of them - while not making it so that a player in a Sidewinder can pick up a tonne of Coffee, trade it to the next system, and immediately buy a Cobra III.

And how do you get that 64ton object out of the cargo hatch?
 
Discussing current payouts with people who seem to think mode-flipping is "necessary" is order to grant them the level of income they think they deserve has led me to think about this a bit.

I got my Cutter back when Horizons was shiny and new.
I had a bit of a play with EDDB and discovered that the place where gold was cheapest was only a couple of jumps from the place where it was most expensive.
If I loaded my Cutter up with gold, made a couple of jumps and sold it again I could make a couple of million credits.
If I repeated this I could make around Cr15m per hour (IIRC)
I mentioned this on the forums and people were quite impressed, leading to me even receiving a fair amount of PMs from people asking where I was making "so many credits so easily".

Thing is, in those days, the price of ships, modules and rebuys was the same as it is now.

Seems like the best barometer of "the value of a credit" is what you can buy with one and that remains the same as it was a couple of years ago.
The difference is that it's now easily possible to make Cr30m or more per hour without mode-flipping whereas doing that can earn you Cr100m or more per hour.

So, in summary:-
2 years ago: 10 hours of play to buy an Anaconda.
Today: 5 hours of non-MFing to buy an Anaconda or 2 hours of MFing play to buy the same thing.

I guess that's why I think all the people who claim to "need" to mode-flip are talking out of their poop- chutes. :eek:
 
+1 to OP.

The new trade stuff sounds great but if easy credits can be had elsewhere it will only see limited use.
 

Deleted member 115407

D
Just wanting to throw in there, Goemon did a pretty good guide about this, though I don't know where it is at the moment... (paging Dr. Goemon?)

Where is Goemon? I liked that guy.
 

Tiny_Rick

Banned
Excellent write up, much appreciated!

But the fact is: passenger missions have killed the financial viability of pretty much every other in-game activity.

Empirically true! This weekend I ran bulk passenger/VIP missions from LHS 3556/Wolf 718/Stopover to Katzenstein Dock in 36 Ophiuchi. Was I making approx. 34 mil per run? Why yes, I was. But it was a grind because it was a .14 ly haul in supercruise. Wanna take a guess at how many cargo/scan missions I stacked for the same route? Absolute zero.

However, I can see how FD would weigh the pros/cons of high payout missions, and having to travel 45-50 minutes in supercruise, IMO, should be a consideration. I would like to see that aspect applied to other missions beside passenger.
 
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proper economy would ahve been needed before adjusting missions. But so the entire formula of (effort+risk)reward/time formula is massively unabalanced.
 
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Smeaton is not a really good example, because it encourages mode switching because of the limited amount of missions that are available.

There are other passenger runs where you can easliy make 100+mil cr/h with passenger missions without mode switching.
In fact, the missions are so abundant I can't even take all of them in my Conda due to limited passenger capacity.
 
Agree with op, unfortunately the unbalanced rewards and most of the game being obsolete to make money compared with the exploity way, is what made me stop playing.

Still waiting for some kind of sense in rewards that I don't be forced to do one thing because it pays ridiculous more instead of what I want because it pays ridiculous low.
 
Since the last patch (2.4) short haul cargo missions are more profitable than short haul passenger missions.
Also do not agree to the notion of more grind (in the travel) imposed on others because you would find it fun or game enhancing.
 
The difference is that it's now easily possible to make Cr30m or more per hour without mode-flipping whereas doing that can earn you Cr100m or more per hour.

So, in summary:-
2 years ago: 10 hours of play to buy an Anaconda.
Today: 5 hours of non-MFing to buy an Anaconda or 2 hours of MFing play to buy the same thing.

I guess that's why I think all the people who claim to "need" to mode-flip are talking out of their poop- chutes. :eek:
Sure, but it's all personal perspective. Ever since 1.3 came out, all the components have been in place to get well over 30MCr/hour from Painite mining. People didn't figure out precisely *how* until more recently, because it's not completely straightforward, and most people still don't realise it can be done because "ew, mining" and they never think to check. But it was possible back then and still is now, so even 2 years ago it was only 5 hours of play to buy an Anaconda.

Nowadays, I can think of a few ways without mode-flipping *and without long-range passenger missions* to make over 50MCr/hour. (I think in the right circumstances one of them could make over 100MCr/hour, but I don't need the money and don't have a Cutter to test it in anyway, so I've not checked)

As Aguettinger points out, mode-flipping isn't actually needed for the profits from long-range passenger missions either - it just makes a wider range of systems viable for getting that level of LRP profits in the first place, to make 100Mcr/hour or more.

Which does prove your point that no-one "needs" to mode-flip, I guess, but in a rather different direction ;)

(Most of my gameplay time has been spent on pre-2.3-buff exploring, CQC, and just flying around aimlessly looking at things, none of which earn very much, so I personally consider anything over about 2MCr/hour to be "really fast earning" ... but I'd certainly not advocate restricting general earnings to that sort of level!)
 
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