100% Doesn't make much sense at the moment, attack a heavily armed military convey for a rare substance, get paid 70,000cr, thanks but no thanks, I'll stick to hauling 80 tonnes narcotics for 5 million credits . They definitely should create wing missions for attacking those conveys, or have Hafmium in large supplies on certain megaships.
Being a Criminal
- Thread starter DaedalusVar
- Start date
100% Doesn't make much sense at the moment, attack a heavily armed military convey for a rare substance, get paid 70,000cr, thanks but no thanks, I'll stick to hauling 80 tonnes narcotics for 5 million credits . They definitely should create wing missions for attacking those conveys, or have Hafmium in large supplies on certain megaships.
Had that too, but generally when I'm being a tad blasé in the cutter. Actually I'm pretty sure since the smuggling changes I've been caught more going out than in, when I'm likely to forget to leave in a straight line; and by then I have the distance to survive station guns.
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If megaships deliver 20t of Aluminium, I doubt a lot of people will bother engaging this content.
1) It should be high value cargo like hafmium, diamonds, AI relics or thargoid tech
2) There should be well paying and difficult missions to pirate those megaships.
At times I feel like pulling my hair in frustration when I look at what FD is doing... They have all the damn pieces
at hand and yet... nothing.
Departure scanning has had a big increase over the years. Am still getting NPC Vipers trying to ram my T-10 during a scan whilst I'm leaving the NFZ. Rarely have illegal goods on the way out, so not an huge issue for me, most of my smuggling missions originate from Anarchy's.
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I didn't really count smugling, as it is quite easy to get away with. You aren't a criminal until you're wanted.
I'd add all sorts of ideas to make crime interesting, varied and exciting like;
bans from stations (not just anonymising, though I realise that needs a different mechanic for scanning) along with 'very reputable' down to 'disreputable' stations appearing on a mirrored probability curve from corporate to anarchy systems (I.e, disreputable stations would be more likely on chaotic systems and less likely in corporate systems and vice versa for reputable stations)
harpooning!
False flag modules to hide your ship for good or bad purposes
combined modules to help pirate fits compete with pvp fits
Multiple levels of Supercruise to make a game of cat and mouse (with attendant modules) of piracy
Module theft (read swapping as in 'that's a lovely 7a shield generator ye be having!') AND have them fitted at 'disreputable' stations only.
No security 'safe' havens in Anarchies where no groups have any security forces.
War systems being temporary no security zones. And let the criminals influence particular key systems to become war systems.
More fluidity to system changes so that there is no complacency by traders so that 'relative stability' becomes a more important factor in choosing a route and that no route shoukd be considered permanently stable (or if it is inherently stable then it is inherently low profit)
Find a better fix for rare Trade exploits than the current one.
Add a 'danger money' bonus to open (i know, I know, but they still should. It's a trivial matter to divorce the bonus from the bgs)
Make new crimes like criminal surveillance. If mankind excels at one thing, it's making new laws/crimes. Scan a security ship in system x? 300 credit fine. Scan a 'area 52' base on planet x? 10k bounty.
Make different systems have different 'petty laws' from a pool of about 150 that come up on system scans so that people have to be 'awake' all the time. These can range from draconian (lingering for too long outside a station without requesting docking permission or any type of scan being punishable to the sort of understandable like owning 'criminal modules' like hatchbreakers or the aforementioned harpoon.
That's a selection of relatively small changes that would make being a criminal worthwhile. Wish I was around for the q&a for it, but alas I was not.
bans from stations (not just anonymising, though I realise that needs a different mechanic for scanning) along with 'very reputable' down to 'disreputable' stations appearing on a mirrored probability curve from corporate to anarchy systems (I.e, disreputable stations would be more likely on chaotic systems and less likely in corporate systems and vice versa for reputable stations)
harpooning!
False flag modules to hide your ship for good or bad purposes
combined modules to help pirate fits compete with pvp fits
Multiple levels of Supercruise to make a game of cat and mouse (with attendant modules) of piracy
Module theft (read swapping as in 'that's a lovely 7a shield generator ye be having!') AND have them fitted at 'disreputable' stations only.
No security 'safe' havens in Anarchies where no groups have any security forces.
War systems being temporary no security zones. And let the criminals influence particular key systems to become war systems.
More fluidity to system changes so that there is no complacency by traders so that 'relative stability' becomes a more important factor in choosing a route and that no route shoukd be considered permanently stable (or if it is inherently stable then it is inherently low profit)
Find a better fix for rare Trade exploits than the current one.
Add a 'danger money' bonus to open (i know, I know, but they still should. It's a trivial matter to divorce the bonus from the bgs)
Make new crimes like criminal surveillance. If mankind excels at one thing, it's making new laws/crimes. Scan a security ship in system x? 300 credit fine. Scan a 'area 52' base on planet x? 10k bounty.
Make different systems have different 'petty laws' from a pool of about 150 that come up on system scans so that people have to be 'awake' all the time. These can range from draconian (lingering for too long outside a station without requesting docking permission or any type of scan being punishable to the sort of understandable like owning 'criminal modules' like hatchbreakers or the aforementioned harpoon.
That's a selection of relatively small changes that would make being a criminal worthwhile. Wish I was around for the q&a for it, but alas I was not.
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Sorry when I say Criminal I don't mean a mercenary doing missions, A legit criminal that has no ties to anyone else. Murder, theft...etc. This latest update is basically a way to punish criminals just because that crime is against a commander instead of a NPC. Not really what I was promised
Literally murdering for fun is not profitable.
perhaps there could be missions that scale with number of murders that can be acquired through the black market, if you wanted your reputation to have in-game meaning and consequence in terms of, you know, it being relevant.You realize that the upcoming system treats NPC and players the same as far as murder is concerned... XD
But anyway : the only way criminal gamplay will deliver comparable or a bit higher rewards wrt to other professions is via missions.
Can role play without them of course, but it won't pay as much.
Well, frankly it's not that hard to quick fix PvE piracy/criminal gameplay :
1) Beef up illegal assassination missions rewards. I mean, you will incur a huge Bounty from those.
2) Beef up piracy mission payouts to make it a worthwhile PvE activity. Put in some tough ones where one has to attack a fed/imp convoy to recover high value items. Heck, make those "train robbbery" wing missions.
3) Kidnap jobs on the top 1% of all liners, and maybe weddings too. Just because they are annoying
4) Stop scalling mission payouts with high ls distances above a factor 2-4. (i.e. smite the smeatons)
5) Make drugs and weapons dirt cheap in anarchies, and mighty expensive where they are illegal.
6) Put NPC rare good traders with juicy cargo on the classical rare trade routes. FD can simply rip off the routes created by the community. Also have such trader in every systems with rares and its immediate neighbours.
7) Add shady thargoid tech traders carrying thargoid cargo such as probes, sensors and what not. Also can do the same with Imp/Fed convoys.
High end assassination/piracy missions should pay in the 15-30M for one hour of play time. (In fact all top end missions / activities should be balanced to that level IMO (but not more))
fixing PvP piracy is going to be much harder :/
I agree with all of this.
The way I can tell that Crime is not viable or interesting is because I have never been tempted to do it. If it were set up correctly, you would always be looking at the other side of the fence and wondering if maybe that's a better route to take.
Criminal missions should have payouts that are infuriatingly, insultingly better than the equivalent non-criminal mission. You should look at the criminal mission payouts, compare them to the missions you're taking, and feel like a *chump*. And as others have said; the Cargo that is dropped by traders should be so good and so valuable that you are always tempted, even as a normally law-abiding player, to shoot down a convoy.
And *then* you put a comprehensive punishment system in place. Not something that immediately wrecks you or negates the short-term Benefit of crime; but something which gives lasting consequences to your actions and which make your life progressively more challenging and complicated. Criminal activity should have consequences which you have to live with, which you have to *cope* with, and which you can keep running from but cannot get out of without it being extremely costly.
And at that point, when you've been doing Crime for a while and running from authorities and working exclusively out of anarchies (which should be difficult and dangerous places from which to operate), at that point the temptation dynamic should flip, and you would be longing for the lower-paying but more straightforward missions, and simple but honest A-B trading; and at a certain point your criminal life should be sufficiently complex that it's perpetually tempting to buy a new, clean ship and start all over again and try to make an honest living.
Criminal missions should have payouts that are infuriatingly, insultingly better than the equivalent non-criminal mission. You should look at the criminal mission payouts, compare them to the missions you're taking, and feel like a *chump*. And as others have said; the Cargo that is dropped by traders should be so good and so valuable that you are always tempted, even as a normally law-abiding player, to shoot down a convoy.
And *then* you put a comprehensive punishment system in place. Not something that immediately wrecks you or negates the short-term Benefit of crime; but something which gives lasting consequences to your actions and which make your life progressively more challenging and complicated. Criminal activity should have consequences which you have to live with, which you have to *cope* with, and which you can keep running from but cannot get out of without it being extremely costly.
And at that point, when you've been doing Crime for a while and running from authorities and working exclusively out of anarchies (which should be difficult and dangerous places from which to operate), at that point the temptation dynamic should flip, and you would be longing for the lower-paying but more straightforward missions, and simple but honest A-B trading; and at a certain point your criminal life should be sufficiently complex that it's perpetually tempting to buy a new, clean ship and start all over again and try to make an honest living.
Crime should be a very tempting shortcut with all kind of nasty downsides down the line
Crime should be a very tempting shortcut with all kind of nasty downsides down the line
Both of you nailed it so hard. Crime is contemptuous but very tempting at the same time. For me piracy has been the thrill of stealing, and murder has simply been a means to get money, legal or not. Let's give both of them the allure and danger they deserve.
Compared to mindless passenger missions? No, you don't make good money.
Being a "criminal" in ED is just as viable as following the laws. It's all about choices.
As far as whether or not ED will turn criminal professions into some sort of "player class", at least for chosen professions who knows? They haven't really done it for any profession yet, let alone criminal professions.
That said, I'd love to see an actual framework for professions that makes choices more meaningful- and rewards that complement chosen professions.
"Classes" won't be possible because of the nature of the game as a space ship sim, but professions are definitely viable. If they would only expand this a bit more instead of keeping professions generalized it might go a longer way to making the game a bit more engaging for everyone. It's great to have the whole "What shall I do in game today?" question available- and choosing a profession shouldn't necessarily lock you into only one thing, of course... but at least some sort of loose framework would be nice.
As far as whether or not ED will turn criminal professions into some sort of "player class", at least for chosen professions who knows? They haven't really done it for any profession yet, let alone criminal professions.
That said, I'd love to see an actual framework for professions that makes choices more meaningful- and rewards that complement chosen professions.
"Classes" won't be possible because of the nature of the game as a space ship sim, but professions are definitely viable. If they would only expand this a bit more instead of keeping professions generalized it might go a longer way to making the game a bit more engaging for everyone. It's great to have the whole "What shall I do in game today?" question available- and choosing a profession shouldn't necessarily lock you into only one thing, of course... but at least some sort of loose framework would be nice.
For all your Forum Bingo Cards: Soon™
Agreed. Criminals need to unite somehow and try to get some mechanics in this game that make it interesting and profitable for ALL playstyles.
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