I'm excited for the new c+p changes! Here's why!

[Bearded Wallaby]

I mean, so will I, this won't really deter me. I honestly don't even think the C&P changes are overall bad, I just think there are a few specific points of it that are off, namely, linking notoriety to their cost, reducing rebuys for people who die a lot (that insurance company would go bankrupt with policies like that) and anarchy shouldn't give 2 s about who's wanted, which the last one I think may end up being accurate? I don't recall exactly

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Okay but murder is murder, why should it matter how expensive their ship was? That system makes it so that you are more heavily punished for killing somebody in an end game ship, that is somebody who should be able to defend themselves, compared to a new player in a cheap ship, who probably won't know to submit, pop a heat sink, throw 4 pips to systems and high wake. Killing your cutter at a CG isn't ruining the game or driving off the player base, nuking sidewinders in Eravate is. Which of those crimes is more deserving of punishment? I've never been into ganking noobs but I absolutely will do that to highlight how silly it is to link my notoriety to the cost of somebody else's ship. I'm also not at all worried about ATR or higher rebuys, it will not deter me, it's an inconvenience at best. You guys talking like this C&P change will finally save you from your bad piloting are in for some serious disappointment.

Well said, sir. Well said.

 

[Sadistic Savior]

Folks are still going to get ganked. The imminent C&P additions won't change that.

I don't doubt it. But this is a step in the right direction. And it will definitely deter griefing, which was the point.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Yup. FD even said they dont want to prevent it from happening. At some point they even literally used the terms griefconda and noobwinder IIRC.

I do recall the ship nicknames. I also specifically recall Sandro, on many many occasions, saying that naughtiness very much has a place in the Elite Galaxy. As a matter of fact, he said one of the core themes is that you can be a villain in one place, and a hero elsewhere.

I mean, so will I, this won't really deter me. I honestly don't even think the C&P changes are overall bad, I just think there are a few specific points of it that are off, namely, linking notoriety to their cost, reducing rebuys for people who die a lot (that insurance company would go bankrupt with policies like that) and anarchy shouldn't give 2 s about who's wanted, which the last one I think may end up being accurate? I don't recall exactly

Anarchy should still be anarchy. I don't think that's changing.

 

[Sadistic Savior]

Yup. FD even said they dont want to prevent it from happening. At some point they even literally used the terms griefconda and noobwinder IIRC.

Which is good. Deep Space should be dangerous. Civilized space should not be very dangerous...that's why it's civilized. You don't see Pirates off the Florida coast for a really good reason. It's not safe for them there. I don't want to stop pirating. I just want to see realistic consequences.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I've never been into ganking noobs but I absolutely will do that to highlight how silly it is to link my notoriety to the cost of somebody else's ship.

Whatever you need to tell yourself man. I myself have been siphoning gas from the neighbour's car for years, to show the terrible effects of greed on local communities of course.

Which is good. Deep Space should be dangerous. Civilized space should not be very dangerous...that's why it's civilized. You don't see Pirates off the Florida coast for a really good reason. It's not safe for them there. I don't want to stop pirating. I just want to see realistic consequences.

Dont get me wrong, I am totally with you on that. I've been saying system security levels should mean something for years now.

 

[Kaocraft]

Didn't G1 Mats exploit modules get "nuked" themselves?

I also understood there was going to be a thing where the greifers rebuy was deducted from the victims ship or something like that???

Hence the incentive to blow up smaller, cheaper ships - their rebuy is lower so if you're a griefer then killing them will penalize you less.

 

[Ydiss]

Seems to me that if you're going to avoid attacking high value ships from fear of the penalty if you eventually die then you're not doing it right.

I'm going to hazard a wild guess that the portion of PKers who will suddenly switch to small targets because of this will be tiny compared to the portion who already target small, low ranked ships exclusively.

 

[FudePoof]

Whatever you need to tell yourself man. I myself have been siphoning gas from the neighbour's car for years, to show the terrible effects of greed on local communities of course.



Dont get me wrong, I am totally with you on that. I've been saying system security levels should mean something for years now.

A terrible strawman.

 

[Kaocraft]

Okay but murder is murder, why should it matter how expensive their ship was? That system makes it so that you are more heavily punished for killing somebody in an end game ship, that is somebody who should be able to defend themselves, compared to a new player in a cheap ship, who probably won't know to submit, pop a heat sink, throw 4 pips to systems and high wake. Killing your cutter at a CG isn't ruining the game or driving off the player base, nuking sidewinders in Eravate is. Which of those crimes is more deserving of punishment? I've never been into ganking noobs but I absolutely will do that to highlight how silly it is to link my notoriety to the cost of somebody else's ship. I'm also not at all worried about ATR or higher rebuys, it will not deter me, it's an inconvenience at best. You guys talking like this C&P change will finally save you from your bad piloting are in for some serious disappointment.

You're conflating two different things. The penalty for murder, like the penalty for loitering, is death/ship destruction followed by imprisonment. The consequence for your ship insurance policy on reckless and repeated violation of the law and repeated destruction of the property of other policyholders, is: your insurance premiums are raised and theirs are offset when they are killed by a well-documented and well established threat (you).

 

[Sadistic Savior]

Hence the incentive to blow up smaller, cheaper ships - their rebuy is lower so if you're a griefer then killing them will penalize you less.

An I am sure they will switch to noobs initially...but in the long run, griefing will still cost them money. And eventually the well will run dry. It's not an immediate fix, but it is an improvement on what we currently have.

 

[FudePoof]

Seems to me that if you're going to avoid attacking high value ships from fear of the penalty if you eventually die then you're not doing it right.

Eve pirates are laughing at you.

I've played eve.
You don't pay for the other guys ship when you blow it up either.

I also have <200 consecutive CMDR kills without dying and 1.5bill in pocket change. Everything's going to be on the menu still, but Im going to have a favorite dish simply because it's cost effective.

So many strawmans tonight.
Is this a cornfield?

 

[Sadistic Savior]

I also have <200 consecutive CMDR kills without dying and 1.5bill in pocket change. Everything's going to be on the menu still, but Im going to have a favorite dish simply because it's cost effective.

Then I don't understand the tears for the C&P changes. You'll still have fun, right?

 

[Ian Skippy]

I've played eve.
You don't pay for the other guys ship when you blow it up either.

I also have <200 consecutive CMDR kills without dying and 1.5bill in pocket change. Everything's going to be on the menu still, but Im going to have a favorite dish simply because it's cost effective.

So many strawmans tonight.
Is this a cornfield?

Out of curiosity, what is your cmdr name? For such a scary and renowed PvP player, there is a surprising lack of videos or reports about a cmdr fudepoof. So what is your name, scary cmdr? Would love to see if I have stumbled into you.

A terrible strawman.

Nope. "I am being a cornhole to people to draw attention to how annoying cornholes are!" is not fooling anyone.

 

[Ydiss]

I've played eve.
You don't pay for the other guys ship when you blow it up either.

I also have <200 consecutive CMDR kills without dying and 1.5bill in pocket change. Everything's going to be on the menu still, but Im going to have a favorite dish simply because it's cost effective.

So many strawmans tonight.
Is this a cornfield?

I removed that comment because I'd guessed you'd say that.

My point is, it's unlikely you're going to switch if you've got any class. You should want a huge bounty. It's your measurement of success.

Whoever does switch will be a tiny fraction compared to the players who already avoid targeting a challenge. I guess what I'm saying is "they do it already".

So no change here.

Seriously though. No PKer who currently takes on the big targets will switch. They're doing it for a reason. Zero penalty beyond rebuy isn't it.

 

[znôrt]

Its obviously what frontier wants!
Why else would they make c+p modeled as such?

wishful thinking and stubborn incompetence. are you new?

 

[Ian Skippy]

I removed that comment because I'd guessed you'd say that.

My point is, it's unlikely you're going to switch if you've got any class. You should want a huge bounty. It's your measurement of success.

Whoever does switch will be a tiny fraction compared to the players who already avoid targeting a challenge. I guess what I'm saying is "they do it already".

So no change here.

Seriously though. No PKer who currently takes on the big targets will switch. They're doing it for a reason. Zero penalty beyond rebuy isn't it.

I indeed am convinced every SDC member for example is going for the highest bounty possible and post it everywhere. "Im gonna pound sideys because its easy!" its not what the really notorious players do.

"Haha, I killed someone's freewinder, netting them a whopping loss of no credits! That newb probably doesnt even know how to tell a cmdr from an NPC, muahahaha!"

People who threaten to do that are just clowns of little consequence.

 

[FudePoof]

Then I don't understand the tears for the C&P changes. You'll still have fun, right?

It's because they don't make any damn sense. There's been suggested feedback that is head and shoulders above the current system and just as easy to implement.

Instead of expanding bounty hunting as a career or pirating they've decided to forsake both and instilled a system that punishes for the sake of the combat logging community. After all, this is what it was all about from the get go, combat loggers vs. griefers. Carebears have been suggesting for a while now that if griefers were dealt with there would be no need for logging, which is just crap

But hey, now when people log I won't be eating their rebuy. So I guess frontier's aim here is to have everyone benefit and celebrate a combat log

 

[RagingxPenguin]

My word someone is salty.

Also. Please all the gankers head to Eravate.

BGG is craving a new war...

 

[Ian Skippy]

It's because they don't make any damn sense. There's been suggested feedback that is head and shoulders above the current system and just as easy to implement.

Instead of expanding bounty hunting as a career or pirating they've decided to forsake both and instilled a system that punishes for the sake of the combat logging community. After all, this is what it was all about from the get go, combat loggers vs. griefers. Carebears have been suggesting for a while now that if griefers were dealt with there would be no need for logging, which is just crap

But hey, now when people log I won't be eating their rebuy. So I guess frontier's aim here is to have everyone benefit and celebrate a combat log

Ah, we finally get to the root of your frustration. Why didnt you just start this topic with:"I think CL is stupid!" and we could have taken it from there.