"Dangerous is definitely not for everyone - and that's a real strength" [Eurogamer]

[philux]

PS4/XB1 regarding this have good enough hardware to run game and their driver parts are rock solid. So it actually makes a lot of sense if PS4 port for example would come first, right after PC and Mac versions.

I understand that PS4/XB1 are capable to run current graphically ambitious PC games like BF4 or Titanfall with a lower resolution and frame rate.
If ED will be maintained and updated over the next couple of years though, consoles won't be able to scale as well as PCs, i.e., they cannot be upgraded to latest state-of-the-art GPU/CPU in 2 years from now. By that, the evolution of ED might be hold back in the future.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I understand that PS4/XB1 are capable to run current graphically ambitious PC games like BF4 or Titanfall with a lower resolution and frame rate.
If ED will be maintained and updated over the next couple of years though, consoles won't be able to scale as well as PCs, i.e., they cannot be upgraded to latest state-of-the-art GPU/CPU in 2 years from now. By that, the evolution of ED might be hold back in the future.

Not really. It all depends on engine, what state-of-the-art GPU/CPU brings on table. If only pushing polygons is a problem, then down scaled models for console games will do a trick, and no need to sacrifice PC version.

 

[beelbeebub]

@Squiker

Would the "fit for purpose" rule not be scuppered by the "beta" and "testing" descriptions.

The software, as it is currently, is clearly not "fit for purpose" as a complete retail game.

Some people have made the assumption that "beta means early access" but it clearly states when you buy beta access:

• Access all Beta development stages
• A download copy of the released game

(underlining mine)

Would this not define the "purpose" in "fit for purpose" as development, therefore bugs, crashes, wipes and missing features are all expected in development.

If I bought a game in this state I would demand a refund, but I bought into the development process and this is expected.

If the final game has the same level of bugs and missing features I will be asking for a refund of the game price.

 

[Squicker]

@Squiker

Would the "fit for purpose" rule not be scuppered by the "beta" and "testing" descriptions.

The software, as it is currently, is clearly not "fit for purpose" as a complete retail game.

Some people have made the assumption that "beta means early access" but it clearly states when you buy beta access:

• Access all Beta development stages
• A download copy of the released game

(underlining mine)

Would this not define the "purpose" in "fit for purpose" as development, therefore bugs, crashes, wipes and missing features are all expected in development.

If I bought a game in this state I would demand a refund, but I bought into the development process and this is expected.

If the final game has the same level of bugs and missing features I will be asking for a refund of the game price.

So I think it's clear in the beta stage that if the vendor makes it clear you are buying unfinished code and that there will be wipes etc, the software cannot be considered defective:

"Digital content will not be unsatisfactory as a result of things specifically drawn to the consumer’s attention before contracting, which are revealed (or ought to be revealed) by the consumer examining the digital content, or where the consumer has benefited from a trial version which ought to make such a thing apparent."

You are therefore quite correct IMO that right now you could not get a refund for the beta being flaky. But you could actually get one right now on the basis that FD have not made it clear in their purchase workflow that the digital content is subject to a 14 day refund with no reason needing to be given:

"Cancellation: Consumers will have a right to cancel a purchase without providing reasons and without liability. There will be a right to cancellation within 14 days from the day after the contract was entered into. If the consumer was not made aware of this right at the time of contracting, but was made aware within the following 12 months, the 14 day period will run from the date of notification. "

This is a loophole I imagine FD will close if people in their camp are reading this thread. So if anyone thinks this game is not their cup of tea and they bought standard beta after June 13th, now is the time to escape the contract.

What happens when a paid for beta game - which you have accepted as bug-laden as per above - turns live? Is it a new release and therefore subject to the whole fit for purpose thing from the actual production release date? Or were you deemed to accept it earlier in beta? Perhaps it is to be tested in court to find the answer here.

 

[Robert Maynard]

But you could actually get one right now on the basis that FD have not made it clear in their purchase workflow that the digital content is subject to a 14 day refund with no reason needing to be given:

"Cancellation: Consumers will have a right to cancel a purchase without providing reasons and without liability. There will be a right to cancellation within 14 days from the day after the contract was entered into. If the consumer was not made aware of this right at the time of contracting, but was made aware within the following 12 months, the 14 day period will run from the date of notification. "

Presumably this only applies to customers whose date of contract was on or after 13th June 2014?

 

[Squicker]

Presumably this only applies to customers whose date of contract was on or after 13th June 2014?

That's the case, you couldn't retrospectively apply the law as that's a breach of EU human rights legislation.

 

[Tox Laximus]

Can someone PM me what to write in a recorded letter that I can send to the office, I'm fully prepared to go to the small claims court.

I've took screenshots of every grievance on this forum, I've got screenshots of pm's from mods who have gave me infractions for asking about chargebacks.

I'll stick up for the little man, I do it all the time.

Hell, Ive just beaten ATOS and they caved in before the tribunal.

 

[Cody]

Jeez!

 

[Krollin]

Hell, Ive just beaten ATOS and they caved in before the tribunal.

Proof, or it didn't happen.

Kro

 

[Voo]

For goodness sake man, please stop posting about your imaginary grievances. We don't care.

 

[MikeSnos]

Can someone PM me what to write in a recorded letter that I can send to the office, I'm fully prepared to go to the small claims court.

I've took screenshots of every grievance on this forum, I've got screenshots of pm's from mods who have gave me infractions for asking about chargebacks.

I'll stick up for the little man, I do it all the time.

Hell, Ive just beaten ATOS and they caved in before the tribunal.

You do realise that you've paid for the final release version and that you've paid for the additional privilege of sampling the beta (it's clearly stated as being a beta product). A beta product is one that is still in testing and still has work to be done... Your claim will fall over at the first hurdle.

If you didn't want to try out a beta product YOU shouldn't have paid for the privilege... Buyer beware as always... Do your research... your own fault. If you'd been told that xxxx car company had a new car in development and you could buy it before it reached type approval then surely you'd accept the associated risks....?

 

[Marc Alexander]

You do realise that you've paid for the final release version and that you've paid for the additional privilege of sampling the beta (it's clearly stated as being a beta product). A beta product is one that is still in testing and still has work to be done... Your claim will fall over at the first hurdle.

If you didn't want to try out a beta product YOU shouldn't have paid for the privilege... Buyer beware as always... Do your research... your own fault. If you'd been told that xxxx car company had a new car in development and you could buy it before it reached type approval then surely you'd accept the associated risks....?

Feeding them makes them more belligerent. (I agree with your point of course)

 

[Tox Laximus]

You do realise that you've paid for the final release version and that you've paid for the additional privilege of sampling the beta (it's clearly stated as being a beta product). A beta product is one that is still in testing and still has work to be done... Your claim will fall over at the first hurdle.

If you didn't want to try out a beta product YOU shouldn't have paid for the privilege... Buyer beware as always... Do your research... your own fault. If you'd been told that xxxx car company had a new car in development and you could buy it before it reached type approval then surely you'd accept the associated risks....?

In the eyes of the law its either fit for purpose or it is not, as of now its not fit for purpose.

 

[Toumal]

Yeah, the trolling aside...

I should point out that Steam is fully aware that they are operating in a gray area. And they do this until someone takes them to court, at which point they will offer a compromise and settle.

I myself had a spat with them about the fact that they don't display the actual price on checkout. I bought a game for 9 Euros but got deducted 19 from my credit card. Their excuse was that I have to go through a super-long, special URL to see the prices for my country (Austria) - and no, using the official steam client does not guarantee this.

They have now added a note to their checkout page that says that the final sale price "might differ" from the displayed total you see when you click the final "Buy" button.

And also, note that you are not buying from Steam. They never sold anything. What they do is offer subscriptions, and they can take away "your" games at any time, for any reason, without any compensation or reimbursement. 99% of Steam's customers don't know or don't care about this, because only a small percentage of users run into situations where Steam takes away their "purchases".



Frontier's shop is very different from Steam, they specifically state that they are selling a product, not a subscription. Whether or not you may be eligible for a refund under your country's laws, or whether said laws even apply here, is something you will need to ask a lawyer specializing in this field.




But back on topic: The article is refreshing. It doesn't touch on the issues though - then again, perhaps now is not the time to point out the problems and bugs of an unfinished game. The writer clearly spent some time investigating the game, unlike some of the recent "review podcasts" where they were actually reading off of the game website, and were unable to even find youtube videos of people playing the game.

 

[JohnP]

In the eyes of the law its either fit for purpose or it is not, as of now its not fit for purpose.

It's fitter for purpose than a whole load of release games, nevermind Beta.

Anyway, time to plonk the troll into the ignore file.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

In the eyes of the law its either fit for purpose or it is not, as of now its not fit for purpose.

There's no "eyes of the law", it is how court interprets things. And court has been interpreted software so far as it is. You take it as it is. And that's end of it.

Now, stop highjacking threads and be a troll.

 

[Daffan]

Nice read - I hope they stick with it and don't get tempted by the masses demanding things like clans or third person view to make quick cash.

The gaming ecosystem looks quite horrible these days - dumbed down triple A console games being poorly ported to PC, free to play rip offs and tons of indie games with good ideas but 8 bit-era graphics.

ED stands out in being decent in all these regards.

What's so amazing about ELite in its current state? I am personally a P.beta 1 backer but i don't see it as the holy grail yet.

 

[Krollin]

In the eyes of the law its either fit for purpose or it is not, as of now its not fit for purpose.

You clearly do not understand the development process or what you have actually bought into do you? I would be interested in your legal source of information? Please feel free to link your source of legal knowledge....

How many times do people have to spell it out, you have bought a work in progress, its still under development, which means by the very term it "may" have bugs, so therefore your "not fit for purpose" statement is in fact "not fit for purpose".

My recommendation to you sir is to go play a game that is fully launched, perhaps create yourself a steam account and purchase a number of the many games they have on offer!

This game is clearly not intended for someone like yourself.

Kro

 

[MikeSnos]

In the eyes of the law its either fit for purpose or it is not, as of now its not fit for purpose.

No one ever said a Beta was intended to be 'fit for purpose'. The point about the phrase is that it is evaluated in a contextual sense. So in the sense of a completed product it is something that is reliable a large proportion of the time and is also not purporting to be something it isn't.

In the sense of a Beta, its purpose is to be evaluated for issues and problems that would not be acceptable in a final product and to help balance and develop the product for final release. In this instance the product is serving its purposes exactly as people are raising bugs and FD are fixing said bugs. Additionally every issue that is identified and fixed leads to the final product being of acceptable quality for public-release...

Additionally there are many many many people who are having an overall decent experience with Elite : Dangerous and the only 'problems' that are widespread are to do with the learning curve and this is by design so the 'problems' are merely an issue of perception and not understanding fully the aims of the game.

Now I have a suggestion for you... If you want to see what 'not fit for purpose' really means... just have a good long look at the recent SimCity saga.... And go away because you're only going to make yourself look daft with your carry on and most people in here will just toy with you.

PS : Are you from South Africa or have South African rellies by any chance?

 

[Shigawire]

Great article, and so true. You might even say that Elite is a game for elitists.