Grind instead fun. Why?

[nbandister]

It's a small rant, I just don't understand peoples sometimes.
I just saw a post on reddit, how someone farm Guardian stuff for the CG. He/She lands near two artifacts then picks up, transfer and relog
While I am also doing this CG, I am having fun off-roading, jumping, parkour around the ruins, and picking up almost every artifact(there is ~20-30/site? newer counted), and relog every ones in a while. Takes more time to get back to the ship, but at least it's fun.
Instead people doing this: pick up 2 artifact-transfer-logoff-login-pick up-transfer-logoff-login-pick up-transfer-logoff-login-pick up-transfer-logoff-login-pick up-transfer-logoff-login-pick up-transfer-logoff-login....... who knows how long, till full cargo I guess.

I can understand people have job+family and little time to play/week, and there are people who frustrated with the SRV (but I guess the latter wont participate in CG-s like this anyway) but it seems to me people sometimes forget ED is a videogame meant for entertainment, amusement, not a job or a self punishment.

I know some parts of ED needs some grinding, there is a long term debate between ppls saying this game too much grinding, and others it's only in the head, I am not talking about that, there is enough debate on that topic.
But this is a good example, when the game can be fun, but ppl instead making into hard grinding. I just cant understand if something can be fun, why people making it deliberately grinding. I cant believe board hopping is fun for anyone, even if not enough time to play, or striving for efficiency and max profit... but if we are on the profit, the Relic worth the most amongst other artifacts, so it's even worth to go around instead picking up 2 closest non Relic for hundreds time...

When I saw the post I dropped my jaw(why ppl doing this to themselves), but found it, rant over.

 

[MickyG1982]

Grind is entirely up to the player, it's neither needed nor desirable but (some) players do it anyway because they want the best toys and ED doesn't hand it to them on them on a silver platter.

However, what that player (the multiple logging one) is doing is pretty much an exploit and is definitely something that should be reported for looking at.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

It's a small rant, I just don't understand peoples sometimes.
I just saw a post on reddit, how someone farm Guardian stuff for the CG. He/She lands near two artifacts then picks up, transfer and relog
While I am also doing this CG, I am having fun off-roading, jumping, parkour around the ruins, and picking up almost every artifact(there is ~20-30/site? newer counted), and relog every ones in a while. Takes more time to get back to the ship, but at least it's fun.
Instead people doing this: pick up 2 artifact-transfer-logoff-login-pick up-transfer-logoff-login-pick up-transfer-logoff-login-pick up-transfer-logoff-login-pick up-transfer-logoff-login-pick up-transfer-logoff-login....... who knows how long, till full cargo I guess.

I can understand people have job+family and little time to play/week, and there are people who frustrated with the SRV (but I guess the latter wont participate in CG-s like this anyway) but it seems to me people sometimes forget ED is a videogame meant for entertainment, amusement, not a job or a self punishment.

I know some parts of ED needs some grinding, there is a long term debate between ppls saying this game too much grinding, and others it's only in the head, I am not talking about that, there is enough debate on that topic.
But this is a good example, when the game can be fun, but ppl instead making into hard grinding. I just cant understand if something can be fun, why people making it deliberately grinding. I cant believe board hopping is fun for anyone, even if not enough time to play, or striving for efficiency and max profit... but if we are on the profit, the Relic worth the most amongst other artifacts, so it's even worth to go around instead picking up 2 closest non Relic for hundreds time...

When I saw the post I dropped my jaw(why ppl doing this to themselves), but found it, rant over.

well you can do the relogging which is boring or do it the regular way, which is similar boring but takes like 30x as much time. Or you do what too many decided to do: stop playing ED which led FD to reworking their Roadmap and rying to fix core gameplay ti get people back to game. Well also youc an simply ognoe that content part of the game. Those are basically your 4 true options.

 

[ChiefRedCloud]

It would seem that some look at games 'only' to win? As apposed to having fun ... I seriously believe, each to their own (within a certain range) as they choose to play as their is no direct competition outside rollplay or possibly PvP.

And players may complain on any subject at times, to include myself. I would not let it bother you.

Chief

 

[JohnRoberts]

Yeah, some people seem too focused on "winning" to see the beauty of the game (IMHO), but they're free to make their own choices (as we are free to make ours), and in all honesty, any effort spent trying to convince people of another approach is just time spent away from the game.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I never understand why people do it to be honest. And what is really funny, after doing the log off log in for countless hours, they will then complain about their self imposed grind.

 

[Conch]

Grinding is a state of mind.

As for some people enjoy grinding.. i myself do it from time to time and still enjoy doing it.

 

[PuffyEichhorst]

It's a small rant, I just don't understand peoples sometimes.
I just saw a post on reddit, how someone farm Guardian stuff for the CG. He/She lands near two artifacts then picks up, transfer and relog
While I am also doing this CG, I am having fun off-roading, jumping, parkour around the ruins, and picking up almost every artifact(there is ~20-30/site? newer counted), and relog every ones in a while. Takes more time to get back to the ship, but at least it's fun.
Instead people doing this: pick up 2 artifact-transfer-logoff-login-pick up-transfer-logoff-login-pick up-transfer-logoff-login-pick up-transfer-logoff-login-pick up-transfer-logoff-login-pick up-transfer-logoff-login....... who knows how long, till full cargo I guess.

I can understand people have job+family and little time to play/week, and there are people who frustrated with the SRV (but I guess the latter wont participate in CG-s like this anyway) but it seems to me people sometimes forget ED is a videogame meant for entertainment, amusement, not a job or a self punishment.

I know some parts of ED needs some grinding, there is a long term debate between ppls saying this game too much grinding, and others it's only in the head, I am not talking about that, there is enough debate on that topic.
But this is a good example, when the game can be fun, but ppl instead making into hard grinding. I just cant understand if something can be fun, why people making it deliberately grinding. I cant believe board hopping is fun for anyone, even if not enough time to play, or striving for efficiency and max profit... but if we are on the profit, the Relic worth the most amongst other artifacts, so it's even worth to go around instead picking up 2 closest non Relic for hundreds time...

When I saw the post I dropped my jaw(why ppl doing this to themselves), but found it, rant over.

I love to drive around with the SRV. In my opinion they realised the driving model in a proper way. Even with the x52 its fun. Loosing traction, drifting, climbing hills, crazz long jumps on low g worlds, jumping over canyons....lovin it!

But on topic: For a lot of people fun is meassured by the achievment they made ingame. For Elite its meant to be the experience.

 

[askavir]

It's more of a human nature thing than a game thing.

Some people "grind" mostly because this is a multiplayer game, and some people as soon as they know somebody else has a bigger/better ship, then for them absolutely everything is a grind until they can have the same ship. That with a mix of false, absurd notion that not having the bigger / most expensive ship is somehow blocking people from gameplay.

It's like those people that are very happy with their job, lives, home, family... until that day comes when they bump into some old high school acquaintance and learn he got stinking rich and drives a Maseratti... and suddenly that same person now hates his life, his home, his car and his dog.

Typicallly it goes something like this:

1 - Player is trading back and forth in a T-6, AspX, T-7, go to A, click Sell, click Buy, goto B, click Sell, click Buy...
2 - "Oh gods, this game is such an unbearable grind, still XXXXXX credits left to get my Anaconda!"
3 - Player finally is able to buy an Anaconda, "Oh my, the horrible grind is finally over, now the real game can finally begin, hello fun here I come!"
4 - Clicks buy, goto A, click sell, click buy, goto B, click sell, click buy, goto A.... the only difference to all other previous ships is the amount of imaginary cargo...

Of course this affects other playstyles as well...

1 - Player in a Courier/Vulture/FAS, goes to RES. pewpewpewpew pewpewpew pewpewpew pewpew pewpewpewpewpew pewpew pewpew
2 - "Oh gods, the grind, this is unbearable PEW so many credits left to buy my Anaconda"
3 - Player finally buys Anaconda "Finally the horrible grind is over, now the real game can finally begin, hello fun here I come!"
4 - Undocks anaconda, flies to RES, pewpewpew pewpew pewpewpewpew pewpew pewpewpewpew pewpew

Those same players would be perfectly happy in a single player game, either back-and-forthing, or pewpewing. But in a multiplayer game, they can't stand to be seen in something perceived as inferior to what someone else might have.

 

[Eldragon]

it seems to me people sometimes forget ED is a videogame meant for entertainment, amusement, not a job or a self punishment.

There is the certain segment of the community that see themselves as being "hardcore", and the more grindy, punishing, and obtuse the game is, the more hardcore they feel.

These players see people quitting in frustration as a feature, the quitters having proven to be unworthy of the hardcore trials that Elite puts upon them.

Their eventual goal to sit alone upon a pile of ash; being the last hardcore player left if the game. With no one around to listen to their cries that the servers are shutting down from lack of funding, because there is no one left to listen.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

There is the certain segment of the community that see themselves as being "hardcore", and the more grindy, punishing, and obtuse the game is, the more hardcore they feel.

These players see people quitting in frustration as a feature, the quitters having proven to be unworthy of the hardcore trials that Elite puts upon them.

Their eventual goal to sit alone upon a pile of ash; being the last hardcore player left if the game. With no one around to listen to their cries that the servers are shutting down from lack of funding, because there is no one left to listen.

Fortunatly, that looks like it won't be happening anytime soon. As to who these "hardcore" players are, I have no idea.

 

[Funny]

Fortunatly, that looks like it won't be happening anytime soon. As to who these "hardcore" players are, I have no idea.

See some of the responses in this thread?

To those nay-sayers, grind is never entirely self-imposed. It is always partially or entirely the fault of the game design. Grind can be fun too. However, a lot of things that sren’t fun by nature have been put forward in the past as necessities to obtain something. Claiming they can simply ignore that Simply reinforces their point, since you’re basically claiming that the content has no real reason to exist in the first place.

I don’t think grind will be too much of an issue going forward if things like the megaship gameplay are good indicators of this game’s future. I don’t, however, think it will never be an issue again, nor would I dare claim that it isn’t an issue in live or even 3.0. But, it has lessened a lot, and the activities you can do (to progress) have been expanded upon and made more fun to do.

Anyway, summary: you should always design the game to have the most efficient ways to do things also be the most fun ways. If you fail on that, you get situations where people will go to the forums complaining ^-^

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

See some of the responses in this thread?

To those nay-sayers, grind is never entirely self-imposed. It is always partially or entirely the fault of the game design. Grind can be fun too. However, a lot of things that sren’t fun by nature have been put forward in the past as necessities to obtain something. Claiming they can simply ignore that Simply reinforces their point, since you’re basically claiming that the content has no real reason to exist in the first place.

I don’t think grind will be too much of an issue going forward if things like the megaship gameplay are good indicators of this game’s future. I don’t, however, think it will never be an issue again, nor would I dare claim that it isn’t an issue in live or even 3.0. But, it has lessened a lot, and the activities you can do (to progress) have been expanded upon and made more fun to do.

Anyway, summary: you should always design the game to have the most efficient ways to do things also be the most fun ways. If you fail on that, you get situations where people will go to the forums complaining ^-^

Whether you need to grind or not is all down to the type of game you play and how you go about that gameplay. I have opened up most of the enginners to rank 5 without having to grind for anything. The only one I did was the mining unlock, and I will never mine again unless it becomes much more exciting with the new mechanics to come.

But the others I unlocked without even having to try, I didn't really have to go out of my way to do so. With this game, you don't need top of the range ships, a cobra will do pretty much everything well, you don't need to fully unlock and god roll every module on your ship. None of it is needed to play the game. In my view ED is all about choice, you choose whether to unlock those engineers, you choose to only concentrate on PvP and not bother with the rest of the gameplay or don't want to do it.

You choose to grind out stuff doing the same thing repeatedly to get one thing. That is a choice. It is not like LOTRO where you have no choice but to grind through missions to unlock the next part of the game.

Engineered modules do not unlock other areas of the game world. It's all about choice with ED. Nothing forces you to grind but your own choices and what you want to achieve in the game. We have tools, but how we use those tools is down to us.

As to this thread, I really see no hardcore players.

 

[bigity]

What's fun to some is grind to others. Picking up mats because I come across them playing the game? Great. Some people prefer to get them all at once and be done with it.

It would help if limpets worked a little better, or some were built into every ship.

 

[Vorxian]

perspective helps answer questions.

If you knock a 500g packet of rice crispies all over your kitchen floor, it might be fun picking up each and every one individually for say, the first 50.. but after that, you'll soon start to shovel arm fulls in the bin... because it's quicker, and picking up each and every one individually wastes time, isn't fun, and serves to stand in the way of what you want to be doing. No one wants to voluntarily do something that takes 200x longer, when there's a quicker alternative. Fun is as subjective as doing something properly and unnecessarily.

Maybe if the actual task of collecting them was an engaging, and fun and unique experience, folks may put up with it for the first batch.. but after that... once you have seen it and been there, doing the same old... gets old. It's just a blocker at that point which people just need to get over.

 

[Funny]

What's fun to some is grind to others. Picking up mats because I come across them playing the game? Great. Some people prefer to get them all at once and be done with it.

It would help if limpets worked a little better, or some were built into every ship.

I keep seeing this argument, but it isn’t entirely true. You still need to sacrifice combat potential to get mats during combat, and most people will never find G5 raw mats during their gameplay. I’m an explorer, so I kinda have the opposite issue where I’ll won’t find any manufactured mats a lot of the time.

 

[DanTheMan]

I've been here since Beta and it is grindy and rather shallow. But I'm ok with it mostly.
PP and engineers you can keep they are just extra layers of grind (IMHO).
I can play ED as much as I really want to as I am retired, but I no longer want to because PP & Engineers are (to me at least) a big waste of time and a total grind-fest.
So, I just do the bits I like. There is no gun to my head forcing me to participate (thankfully).

Lots more ED to come I hope, but I also hope it ceases reliance on false "grinds" for "stuff". Just make everything buy-able with in-game credits (not pay-to-win).

 

[Karunamon]

I've been here since Beta and it is grindy and rather shallow. But I'm ok with it mostly.
PP and engineers you can keep they are just extra layers of grind (IMHO).
I can play ED as much as I really want to as I am retired, but I no longer want to because PP & Engineers are (to me at least) a big waste of time and a total grind-fest.
So, I just do the bits I like. There is no gun to my head forcing me to participate (thankfully).

Lots more ED to come I hope, but I also hope it ceases reliance on false "grinds" for "stuff". Just make everything buy-able with in-game credits (not pay-to-win).

This is why I stay the hell out of open. No desire to become someone else's content (unless I'm feeling particularly devious every now and then where I'll hop in a Cobra3 and interdict known gankers around CGs repeatedly, or menu logging when someone interdicts me).

There's just no fun surrounding engineers right now, just lots of doing the same thing over and over and over again for a payoff. At least that payoff is soon to be always positive, which is a massive improvement from the roulette wheel it is now.

 

[d8veh]

Grinding isn't necessary. I just pay someone $50 to do the community goal for me, and I get top 10 commanders and a 30 mil bonus while I go down the pub every night and fishing at the weekends. That method has other advantages too. I spent a lot of money on my twin joysticks and I haven't yet had to press a single button, which means that when I'm bored with the game. I can sell them as new and get a good price for them.

 

[Drelthar]

This is a problem with the game, not the people doing it.

Can't be -that- hard to store someone's progress of artifact pickup.