Rares... Is it time these got some love?

[Muetdhiver]

Rares definitely need a facelift. The idea is neat, it was very cool in 1.0 as it was a well paying
trading mechanics that pushed traders on known routes and waypoints.

Here is what I see :

• Base allocation should be 50% higher.
• Allocation should double upon friendly, triple at allied.
• System state should not drop the quantity lower that one time base allocation. (But possibly increase it)
• There should be buckyball race style long distance delivery missions : generate missions to a few specific stations on the rare routes. Record the time used by players to deliver. Then have a reward that depends on your position on the leaderboard.
• There should be illegal rare goods long distance smuggling missions.
• There should be rare traders NPC's to pirate along the classical rare goods trade loops and stations.
• Engineer commodities should be remade into rare like goods that increase in value with distance.

At the time (1.0), making 2M for a trade loop was a great payout. Now (soon 3.0), it looks like pocket change.

There is a nice opportunity to have rare goods buckyball style delivery missions and having an other activity that
gather traders in known locations (neat for pirates ^^).

 

[signal11th]

Nah need to be left alone before the Frontier Liberation Squad come on here bleating about who someone makes 10cr more than someone else and we should only be allow to carry one tonne at a time in a week with no board switching.

 

[Susanna]

600k wasn't bad back in the days... nowadays most commanders wouldn't even consider to move a finger let alone their entire ship for that.

LoL... No, they wouldn't. But my perspective isn't typical of most players I suspect.

 

[Susanna]

This is all part of Frontier's methodology of obsoleting content; and the consequences when people demand things to be hit with the bat. They get hit once, and that's it. Dead. Which is why the "be careful what you ask for" cautionary reminder, is still very true, and still very ignored.

The greater problem, is the inherent lack of a consistent approach to rares, missions and a really anything at all by Frontier; the 'flavour of the month' addition of content is matched to an excessive result to, essentially, compel players to engage with it. Frontier introduces a thing, it has a hysterically distorted payout; which is then obsoleted when it's suddenly not intended (despite being intentionally added, with an intentional payout range).

All of this; missions, rares, really anything at all, is the consequence of Frontier, even 3 years on, still being fundamentally disconnected from the player experience.

edit: that about covers it; none of this should be a surprise at this point. I try to be constructive with dialog w/r to frontier, but it's becoming clear there is a real pattern of disconnect and the same thing happens over and over again.

Repped. It feels like fdev are often pulling in multiple and opposite directions at once.

 

[Muetdhiver]

Repped. It feels like fdev are often pulling in multiple and opposite directions at once.

Either that, or a lack of an eagle view oversight person for mission and activities payout balance.

 

[Susanna]

Rares definitely need a facelift. The idea is neat, it was very cool in 1.0 as it was a well paying
trading mechanics that pushed traders on known routes and waypoints.

Here is what I see :

• Base allocation should be 50% higher.
• Allocation should double upon friendly, triple at allied.
• System state should not drop the quantity lower that one time base allocation. (But possibly increase it)
• There should be buckyball race style long distance delivery missions : generate missions to a few specific stations on the rare routes. Record the time used by players to deliver. Then have a reward that depends on your position on the leaderboard.
• There should be illegal rare goods long distance smuggling missions.
• There should be rare traders NPC's to pirate along the classical rare goods trade loops and stations.
• Engineer commodities should be remade into rare like goods that increase in value with distance.

At the time (1.0), making 2M for a trade loop was a great payout. Now (soon 3.0), it looks like pocket change.

There is a nice opportunity to have rare goods buckyball style delivery missions and having an other activity that
gather traders in known locations (neat for pirates ^^).

Yes, all of these game mechanics would add flavour to the game. Presently, these opportunities are just ignored! Long distance smuggling of high value rares could be a fun thing to engage in. At the moment, it wouldn't be worth the effort. I think your suggested value increases, with reputation increases is a good way of bringing rares back to the game again.

 

[Susanna]

Either that, or a lack of an eagle view oversight person for mission and activities payout balance.

FDev do seem to suffer from a lack of foresight and forward planning, a piece-meal approach to things. There have been many examples over the years! Take the AX missiles fiasco for example. Fdev must have spent the best part of a year preparing for 2.4. Yet they didn't foresee the mass Thargoid Ganking fest that happened within days of their release within the game, resulting in the almost immediate nerfing of the missiles only days after the CG completed. It's as if they are in their own little bubble universe and are suddenly surprised by player agency that they haven't factored for...

 

[askavir]

I would love to see rares reborn, but I wouldn't touch the amounts, as that would only turn rare trading into normal trading.

My favorite solution would be to keep to current amounts, but remove the profit increase cap from ~160ly, and see it increased much, much further (to 1000ly or heck even more).

This would provide gameplay for traders who prefer the long haul over A <-> B, as traders would have a choice to either spend much more time collecting rares and travelling for a single large payment, over milking the same short route over and over. It would make hauling stuff into distant locations "a thing", while at the same time keeping the rares "rare", and different from regular commodities.

Also, it could be done in any sized ship. Either use a T-9 and collect rares from the entire bubble and cart them off to the California Nebula, or just fill a Cobra and cart rares into the Witch Head faster.

 

[Quantis Trap]

I'm not once who usually argues for making more money in the game, but rares don't have a mode switching exploit or anyother negative about them. I totally agree that they should get a buff.

Here's some ideas which come to my mind:
1) The available supply of each rare should be at least doubled and still be upped by a percentage during boom conditions etc.
2) Rares value should increase over a distance of 300 LY or more instead of the 160 LY or so.
3) An increase of maybe up to 100 times the original price for each unit depending on distance might be good. The artificial cap of around 17k cr on every rare has always seemed silly to me.
4) Selling rares to black markets in places where they are illegal should get you as much as 200 times the original price depending on distance.
5) Almost every rare should be illegal somewhere.
6) They should maybe add Thargoid rares. Thargoid meat anyone?

 

[Mrjupp]

I would like the distance cap and diminishing returns removed. Imagine delivering a load of rares to Colonia with uncapped prices. Imagine the Pirates waiting for the rare trade commodities being shipped to a station in Colonia, thinking pay day has come early.

If you really want to see rares have true value, then remove the price cap on distance.

 

[Quantis Trap]

I would like the distance cap and diminishing returns removed. Imagine delivering a load of rares to Colonia with uncapped prices. Imagine the Pirates waiting for the rare trade commodities being shipped to a station in Colonia, thinking pay day has come early.

If you really want to see rares have true value, then remove the price cap on distance.

I think completely uncapping the prices in a bit unrealistic, but over 500LY is reasonable.

 

[Quantis Trap]

Rares definitely need a facelift. The idea is neat, it was very cool in 1.0 as it was a well paying
trading mechanics that pushed traders on known routes and waypoints.

Here is what I see :

• Base allocation should be 50% higher.
• Allocation should double upon friendly, triple at allied.
• System state should not drop the quantity lower that one time base allocation. (But possibly increase it)
• There should be buckyball race style long distance delivery missions : generate missions to a few specific stations on the rare routes. Record the time used by players to deliver. Then have a reward that depends on your position on the leaderboard.
• There should be illegal rare goods long distance smuggling missions.
• There should be rare traders NPC's to pirate along the classical rare goods trade loops and stations.
• Engineer commodities should be remade into rare like goods that increase in value with distance.

At the time (1.0), making 2M for a trade loop was a great payout. Now (soon 3.0), it looks like pocket change.

There is a nice opportunity to have rare goods buckyball style delivery missions and having an other activity that
gather traders in known locations (neat for pirates ^^).

Sorry I missed your ideas before giving mine. Your Ideas are a bit more creative, but I see we had a couple of the same thoughts. +rep

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

600k wasn't bad back in the days... nowadays most commanders wouldn't even consider to move a finger let alone their entire ship for that.

arguably the problem with that is not with the rares

FWIW for the mega hauler ships i would like to see rares type limts put on the most pofitable commodities at a station - unless you deliver their most in demand commodities too. this would encourage the massive haulers to trade in more than just the top 5% money makers and it sort of makes sense too as if everyone is buying their products but no one bringing in their materials (as in manufacture materials not space magic materials) then the production chain would fail quickly.

as a carrot to this stick imo the difference in price of the "cheap" stuff from high supply to high demand should be bumped significantly (so that even cheap commodities can still turn a tidy profitO that way the big haulers will develop actual trade loops going through multiple different system types.

people new to the game in smaller ships would still get probably enough for them if a rares like system was put in for those NOT supplying in demand products.

 

[Muetdhiver]

Sorry I missed your ideas before giving mine. Your Ideas are a bit more creative, but I see we had a couple of the same thoughts. +rep

^^ I see that I'm not the only one loving the rares trading. (and piracy XD)

IMO for FD these rare goods are ripe with easy gains for low amount of work gameplay Wise. I hope they will get some love in 3.x

 

[Susanna]

I'm not once who usually argues for making more money in the game, but rares don't have a mode switching exploit or anyother negative about them. I totally agree that they should get a buff.

Here's some ideas which come to my mind:
1) The available supply of each rare should be at least doubled and still be upped by a percentage during boom conditions etc.
2) Rares value should increase over a distance of 300 LY or more instead of the 160 LY or so.
3) An increase of maybe up to 100 times the original price for each unit depending on distance might be good. The artificial cap of around 17k cr on every rare has always seemed silly to me.
4) Selling rares to black markets in places where they are illegal should get you as much as 200 times the original price depending on distance.
5) Almost every rare should be illegal somewhere.
6) They should maybe add Thargoid rares. Thargoid meat anyone?

Great post. Repped.

 

[JesusOnEez]

I always saw rares as an early game money making tactic. It's quite easy to get a Hauler in the early game and then run a rares route that runs through Lave, Leesti, Zaonce through to Altair Witchhaul and a few others. There's a map on google images that still works. Once you've got 'x' amount of money, larger ships, ranked up for better missions, then rares lose their usefulness as straight trading will earn you more dosh per time spent.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Two Words:

Rare Cheese

One more word:

Now.

 

[Dagwit]

When I started the game in the second half of 2016 rares trading was the way for starting players who weren't focused on combat to make money quickly. I remember using the map from this thread:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/223321-Rares-Trading-Metro-Map

and several spreadsheets to plan my routes. It was great. Took me all over the bubble and allowed me to work my way through a Hauler, an Adder, a Cobra, a T-6 and finally an AspX. I was kind of sad when I got my T-7 and could carry enough cargo that short-haul trading earned more per hour.

Now, of course, the Road to Riches offers a starting player ten times the hourly rate once he's made enough to spring for a DSS.

It would take a heck of a buff to enable rares trading to compete with that.

 

[CMDR Dragonclau]

It would be fun if you could pirate rares from NPCs in the same system and they were worth good money in black markets.

 

[wigwam12]

I’m a fan of rares but they could do with some imagination.
I enjoyed doing that 72 hop rare route and it got me enough to buy ships through to my current Asp.
I could just potter around, doing some missions, picking up some rares, seeing different places.
But there isn’t much “rare “ about them.
A few are in permit locked systems which is good as it promotes working for the permit but as you all say the 17k/t just doesn’t justify that effort.
They should be in far flung places and then worth the effort.
Heck Meta Alloys at 88k/t and the need to find and harvest them - ow THATS a rare good

I’m not a fan of the current credit grind race though and the size of the road to riches trek makes me weep looking at it.