PvP Why PvP is not popular in Elite Dangerous?

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I'm sure all of that means something to you. But, it really has no bearing on how the game actually works.

I think it was rather a reference to the trolls coming to this thread using their alt accounts.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Well, if the game were to change, then my advice would change. As it stands, if you or the other guy, were to catch that evil doer 99 out of 100 times, without filling buckets yourself, he'll beat you. With the proper application of the game's rules, not some fantasy version, you too could find success.

Einstein once said:"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." Can you see an application for this in your game views?
W

Yeah doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results is the BGS and Powerplay. Actually expecting people to come out of their holes and play the game it was meant to be played.

You know they balance the game around PVP. If they balanced it around PVE we would have some crazy over powered weapons like diablo.

But we dont. We have balanced gameplay meant for player vs player interactions. And all that has been removed because of what I and many other people have been trying to tell you people for a long time.

Even Sandro said it during live streams. Powerplay was meant to be a consensual PVP program.

But instead it has nothing to do with any of it. And now we have player factions too.

Go to colonia, Look at the BGS numbers, you can go out there for months. And never see the guys on the bounty boards. No one is engineering their ships because they arent needed with the current meta of the BGS.

All you need to do is Engineered a FSD. A naked ship full of cargo racks or passenger missions.

Trust me, they want people to fight.

When they built this game, they didnt see other player groups using those modes for objectives like this. The game has evolved from when we first started playing it.

And the Beyond changes are headed in the right direction.

I can promise you. They wont make this same mistake twice.

The last thing devs want is a split community like we have now. They have the chance to fix all this with the Beyond changes.

And if they dont. They are only shooting themselves in the foot not making those changes for the better. And giving PVP its place in Elite Dangerous.

Because right now all we have is Salt. Or consensual meet ups for PVP. There is no "organic" PVP. And if it does happen, people will just logout and continue their task against the people they are fighting against in solo and private modes.

People around here want to know why PVP is not popular. Is because you can opt out of it. And yet they still continue to balance the game around it.

Like seriously take a step back and think.


Crime and punishment came from Open only.

Engineers Balancing came from Open only.

5+ years of Hotel California with Absolute silence and the thread left open to discuss. If there was nothing to discuss. It would have never existed in the first place and they would have spoke up about it.

Its reaaaaaallly simple to read between the lines here.

Especially with Fleets coming too.

So the definition of insanity. You are absolutely right. Except you have the wrong person you're aiming that sentence at.

 

[AbsinthSvK]

This is completly what i think:

Couterpoint: Creating three different modes fragments the player base, for a multiplayer game FDev should be doing everything they can to get players playing together, and working together.

The whole idea of "Community Goals" is laughable when the community is so fragmented. If FDev wants to go this fragmentation route forever, At minimum FDev should make a PvE option. But I would rather they just put in a PVP on/off toggle, eliminated rebuy for PVP, or any other method that brought people back into Open any playing together.

And then of course there are the "Solo Mode Aces" who never leave solo mode, then boast about their flying skill and/or complain about money exploits. But those people are really only a forum annoyance, not a game play annoyance.

game modes are well made, interesting and fascinating how they made them. But huge downside is how this make already huge galaxy even more empty. And this is completely wrong from my point of view.
Dont tell me they cant make up some coexistence game mode. It does not immediately mean seal-clubbing or blocking or kos. Also i dont think they put some significant amount of work in pvp (or they put with bad results). Fundamental principles are broken from beginning.

I know this game and forum are owned by hardcore solo believers, old people, hate grinders, but refuse to change pvp interaction system? Rly? You dont want system full of people? And see whats going on in galaxy not only from galnet? Come on!

 

[Mohrgan]

Yeah doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results is the BGS and Powerplay. Actually expecting people to come out of their holes and play the game it was meant to be played.

You know they balance the game around PVP. If they balanced it around PVE we would have some crazy over powered weapons like diablo.

But we dont. We have balanced gameplay meant for player vs player interactions. And all that has been removed because of what I and many other people have been trying to tell you people for a long time.

Even Sandro said it during live streams. Powerplay was meant to be a consensual PVP program.

But instead it has nothing to do with any of it. And now we have player factions too.

Go to colonia, Look at the BGS numbers, you can go out there for months. And never see the guys on the bounty boards. No one is engineering their ships because they arent needed with the current meta of the BGS.

All you need to do is Engineered a FSD. A naked ship full of cargo racks or passenger missions.

Trust me, they want people to fight.

When they built this game, they didnt see other player groups using those modes for objectives like this. The game has evolved from when we first started playing it.

And the Beyond changes are headed in the right direction.

I can promise you. They wont make this same mistake twice.

The last thing devs want is a split community like we have now. They have the chance to fix all this with the Beyond changes.

And if they dont. They are only shooting themselves in the foot not making those changes for the better. And giving PVP its place in Elite Dangerous.

Because right now all we have is Salt. Or consensual meet ups for PVP. There is no "organic" PVP. And if it does happen, people will just logout and continue their task against the people they are fighting against in solo and private modes.

People around here want to know why PVP is not popular. Is because you can opt out of it. And yet they still continue to balance the game around it.

Like seriously take a step back and think.


Crime and punishment came from Open only.

Engineers Balancing came from Open only.

5+ years of Hotel California with Absolute silence and the thread left open to discuss. If there was nothing to discuss. It would have never existed in the first place and they would have spoke up about it.

Its reaaaaaallly simple to read between the lines here.

Especially with Fleets coming too.

So the definition of insanity. You are absolutely right. Except you have the wrong person you're aiming that sentence at.

A fantasy scree at best. Kindly leave me off your "Quote" list.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

but it (that part of the game) DOES work..... you just dont like it.

it would be like if i went to the iracing forums and demanded a full single player campaign career as well as burnout style take downs.

both suggestions are not bad -per se- but i would get told something along the lines of "i am sorry but no", and no protestations from me saying the game is broken without them (for me without a single player campaign it IS an incomplete game) would change it.

if you have a round hole, buy a round peg, dont buy a square one, demand it is filed down to suit you and ruin it for everyone else who has a square hole!.

Its not just me, its a very very large part of the community.

you see here on these forums alone you guys think PVPers are the minority because of this echo chamber here.

But everywhere else including some mobius members that work the BGS even think its dumb, https://imgur.com/9ng522o

SO no, its not just me. Just this shallow pool of people on these forums. Everyone else has either left or doesnt want to come here. Because on Fdev forums PVP is a bad word. And the same 7-10 people show up anywhere this talk is mentioned. As a matter of fact we even have bingo cards to see who shows up lol.

A fantasy scree at best. Kindly leave me off your "Quote" list.

No where near fantasy. As I have actually experienced every bit of that. And im not the only one. Major player groups have reported this over and over. Not my fault you're in denial about it.

 

[Mohrgan]

No where near fantasy. As I have actually experienced every bit of that. And im not the only one. Major player groups have reported this over and over. Not my fault you're in denial about it.

What ever helps you sleep at night.....

 

[SpaceScania]

I bought Elite Dangerous because it offered other forms of gameplay like exploring, trading, and mining and allows me to play the game without focusing on combat. To me, Elite Dangerous is like Euro Truck Simulator in space. Instead of chrome and large diesel engines I like to tinker with frameshift drives and power distributors. PvP has zero appeal to me, and in fact, as I play Elite to relax and don’t enjoy aggressive gameplay I play exclusively in solo. I like games that allow me to build things, and the thing I build in Elite is my CMDR character and my fleet of hot rod ships! One day hopefully I’ll even be able to build my own base out in the black.

It’s great that Elite can appeal to different types of gamers. I see this as a huge strength of the game. I have no problem with those who want to engage in PvP in the other environments. However, please respect that some of us just want to play on our own. I don’t really care if others are angry that I like to play in solo, however, it does compel me to speak up so FD hears that many of us do appreciate having that mode available very much!

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

you see here on these forums alone you guys think PVPers are the minority because of this echo chamber here.
.

that is your opinion... but the way i see it... do i trust your stats.... or one of the Frontier developers that the number of people who PvP in the game is a (albeit vocal) minority.


I choose to believe Frontier.
(which is not to say i do not support your play style.. just dont screw the game up for the rest of us)

oh and there is this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rOYhoFYIWmw#t=379

however it is clear FD were rather naive and so we got mobius PG which is MUCH closer to David Brabens vision which is a game where members of the pilots federation co-operate with each other.

 

[askavir]

you see here on these forums alone you guys think PVPers are the minority because of this echo chamber here.

The devs themselves have already posted on this forum that the only a small faction of the players take part in PvP. Which would always be a pretty obvious outcome, as only a looney would buy a space sim that proudly advertises a 400 billion star system galaxy to play and believe it would be some sort of PvP-focused arena combat game lol...

So if I must choose between believing in your "me-jority" claims and Frontier, I'll stick with Frontier's numbers.

But keep believing whatever makes you feel better.

 

[Theodrid]

you see here on these forums alone you guys think PVPers are the minority because of this echo chamber here.

Not even close, we think that because Frontier has said so, you may not like it, but that doesn't change the fact. As for your 'same 7-10 people' comment, well, it seems to be the same 4 or 5 from your minority interest group 90's, including yourself, what do you make of that?

 

[Mohrgan]

I bought Elite Dangerous because it offered other forms of gameplay like exploring, trading, and mining and allows me to play the game without focusing on combat. To me, Elite Dangerous is like Euro Truck Simulator in space. Instead of chrome and large diesel engines I like to tinker with frameshift drives and power distributors. PvP has zero appeal to me, and in fact, as I play Elite to relax and don’t enjoy aggressive gameplay I play exclusively in solo. I like games that allow me to build things, and the thing I build in Elite is my CMDR character and my fleet of hot rod ships! One day hopefully I’ll even be able to build my own base out in the black.

It’s great that Elite can appeal to different types of gamers. I see this as a huge strength of the game. I have no problem with those who want to engage in PvP in the other environments. However, please respect that some of us just want to play on our own. I don’t really care if others are angry that I like to play in solo, however, it does compel me to speak up so FD hears that many of us do appreciate having that mode available very much!

Nice post. Just a little acceptance is all that is needed. You play your game, and I'll play mine. That's the missing link here. Some peeps believe there are strict dogmatic approaches to game design. This game must be PvP, this game must be PvE. It readily apparent that in design, you can have both. The trouble comes with those that insist on the dogmatic approach. Play and let play. It can't get any easier than that.

 

[MarkAusten]

Well, better getting seal-clubbed in Eravate than playing solo for 5 years.

I would say the opposite. I'm a Soloist and proud of it and have been since the original Elite on the BBC B Micro. I would rather pull out my toenails with knackering tongs than play in Open.

Aren't we fortunate that Elite allows us to play the way we want?

 

[biot]

The recently deceased Dobbin doesn't seem to be responding to the usual method of physical exhortation.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

that is your opinion... but the way i see it... do i trust your stats.... or one of the Frontier developers that the number of people who PvP in the game is a (albeit vocal) minority.


I choose to believe Frontier.
(which is not to say i do not support your play style.. just dont screw the game up for the rest of us)

This is a hard one cause its already screwed up. And like we spoke about before. As long as you arent a part of a player faction. If you just want to play with NPC's that arent connected to a player faction or system. It wouldn't effect you at all.

All that needs to change is if players are involved with a system, or powerplay movement. Then you'd be fine. You're free to work NPC's outside of player owned systems.

Have as much fun as youd like.

But there has to be a way to give meaning to PVP besides what we have now. Because what we have now is way too toxic. Believe it or not. Lots of PVPers dont even want to play with BGS or Powerplay because of the toxicity that comes with it. There is no definition.

So we do our own thing, Away from everyone else. And just fight against each other in places like CG's or San Tu.

And if Organic PVP does happen. It usually ends with a combat log, or a bunch of name calling from the person that got attacked.

We DO NOT LIKE IT.

Frontier has created Wake scanners, Grom missiles, Scramble Specturm, hell they even balance ships and weapons for PVP. And continue to do it.

So yeah, I have high hopes for changes because of that. THEY WANT PVP TO HAPPEN. Organically with Powerplay and BGS. Not through what the players have created for themselves because of the Toxic "carebears" that are out there all because they were opposed when they are legitimately fighting against them.

Just like this guy, He knows what hes doing and he knows hes taking advantage of the system. [video=youtube;cnYXTh4TCVo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnYXTh4TCVo[/video]

You see the difference between me and everyone else is. The people I fight against. Fight the battle to make changes for Open play for me, We even got Mobius to admit the BGS is skewed. https://imgur.com/9ng522o

 

[Mohrgan]

that is your opinion... but the way i see it... do i trust your stats.... or one of the Frontier developers that the number of people who PvP in the game is a (albeit vocal) minority.


I choose to believe Frontier.
(which is not to say i do not support your play style.. just dont screw the game up for the rest of us)

oh and there is this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rOYhoFYIWmw#t=379

however it is clear FD were rather naive and so we got mobius PG which is MUCH closer to David Brabens vision which is a game where members of the pilots federation co-operate with each other.

I always count on someone to bring along the facts. I can't keep track of all these bits of info. It'll bounce right off though. Thanks for trying.

 

[znôrt]

Nice post. Just a little acceptance is all that is needed. You play your game, and I'll play mine. That's the missing link here. Some peeps believe there are strict dogmatic approaches to game design. This game must be PvP, this game must be PvE. It readily apparent that in design, you can have both. The trouble comes with those that insist on the dogmatic approach. Play and let play. It can't get any easier than that.

i don't really see "this must be pvp" much around here?

what i see is "hey, frontier, your idea of pvp sucks balls, either get it right or get it off your marketing crap". or variations of that.

on the other side, furibund pve'rs and soloists crying out and making noise is frequent, practically on every single thread that legitimately raises issues with pvp in the game.

i'm a soloist myself in elite, and i'm absolute pvp lover. should tell something ...

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

The devs themselves have already posted on this forum that the only a small faction of the players take part in PvP. Which would always be a pretty obvious outcome, as only a looney would buy a space sim that proudly advertises a 400 billion star system galaxy to play and believe it would be some sort of PvP-focused arena combat game lol...

So if I must choose between believing in your "me-jority" claims and Frontier, I'll stick with Frontier's numbers.

But keep believing whatever makes you feel better.

There is a reason for that. Watch PVP blossom after the 3.0 changes and the level playing field. Everyone will have the same chance. No more excuses.

 

[Mohrgan]

This is a hard one cause its already screwed up. And like we spoke about before. As long as you arent a part of a player faction. If you just want to play with NPC's that arent connected to a player faction or system. It wouldn't effect you at all.

All that needs to change is if players are involved with a system, or powerplay movement. Then you'd be fine. You're free to work NPC's outside of player owned systems.

Have as much fun as youd like.

But there has to be a way to give meaning to PVP besides what we have now. Because what we have now is way too toxic. Believe it or not. Lots of PVPers dont even want to play with BGS or Powerplay because of the toxicity that comes with it. There is no definition.

So we do our own thing, Away from everyone else. And just fight against each other in places like CG's or San Tu.

And if Organic PVP does happen. It usually ends with a combat log, or a bunch of name calling from the person that got attacked.

We DO NOT LIKE IT.

Frontier has created Wake scanners, Grom missiles, Scramble Specturm, hell they even balance ships and weapons for PVP. And continue to do it.

So yeah, I have high hopes for changes because of that. THEY WANT PVP TO HAPPEN. Organically with Powerplay and BGS. Not through what the players have created for themselves because of the Toxic "carebears" that are out there all because they were opposed when they are legitimately fighting against them.

Just like this guy, He knows what hes doing and he knows hes taking advantage of the system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnYXTh4TCVo

You see the difference between me and everyone else is. The people I fight against. Fight the battle to make changes for Open play for me, We even got Mobius to admit the BGS is skewed. https://imgur.com/9ng522o

That post deserves this Lol, whole heartedly. Especially the taunt video. You might have made that yourself, to create a bogey man. Funny though, very funny.

 

[AbsinthSvK]

that is your opinion... but the way i see it... do i trust your stats.... or one of the Frontier developers that the number of people who PvP in the game is a (albeit vocal) minority.

yea because pvp are broken. why to play? When devs dont support it, then it die.

That "minority" can rise from ashes when they put some effort. But no! because nobody play it. See it? Mind-blowing circle.

I see the formula. They make something unfinished and blame players they dont play it. Pathetic. What about fix open and then count players?

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

I always count on someone to bring along the facts. I can't keep track of all these bits of info. It'll bounce right off though. Thanks for trying.

Yeah and you know what else he says in that.

"WE DONT WANT A PVE AND PVP SERVER"

GUESS WHAT WE HAVE.

A PVE AND PVP SERVER.

Good lord people. use your gimballed ears.