Poor communication = frustration

[CaptainSodom]

So I decided to try my Sidewinder's fighting capability after I got to 20k credits. Bought a Beam Laser and a Rail Gun, and went looking for trouble. I found it, but not the type I was looking for.

First, I found an unidentified target, and got off SC to find what it was. A pirate was being attacked by police. I thought this is perfect, safe way to test out my guns. Deploy hardpoints. All systems go down, even life support, and I'm floating helplessly in space breathing from an oxygen tank. All this for no apparent reason.

First I thought I got hit by an alpha strike, but after quite a bit of tinkering and a restart, I figured that the rail gun draws too much energy. So I turned it off, and now hardpoint deployment didn't take the entire ship offline. Lesson learned.

At the next unidentified target I hit paydirt: found gold canisters, and quickly scooped them up. Headed to the nearest station extrapolating gold prices from 2014 to whatever year it is. Was granted docking permission.

As I was just about to enter the station, an NPC Anaconda emerged with its Rubenesque hips, blocking my route. I hit negative thrust immediately, and then I'm not entirely sure what happened. I might have bumped the station and/or the Anaconda, but all I know is that the station attacked me, and within about 1.5 seconds spread me and my gold dust on the windshield of the Anaconda. For no apparent reason.

Even Judge Dredd gives you a warning. [truly amazing movie, btw, perfectly captures the nihilism of the comic]

To add insult to injury, I got a fine. For no apparent reason.

I respawn, and don't have enough credits to pay insurance. Insurance premiums are not listed anywhere in the game AFAIK, so I couldn't have known. Nor are insurance schemes in general explained, or knowledge of them shared until you actually die.

So I had to abandon ship and its modules. That was 20k in weaps and only Thargoids know how much in gold. Don't tell me! Several hours of grinding down the drain.

I get into my complementary Sidewinder and 1000 credits. Pick up a mission to kill three ships in Eranin. Off we go again.

I kill two with my stock Sidey, and get a token reward for them. Then I attack a third. After I pop him, I get a bounty on my head! I'm guessing it was not a pirate. Shooting at an innocent is not a crime, but killing them is. Partly my fault for not checking their status, and assuming that everyone is fair game. But some kind of warning about their status and that I am committing a crime in the five minutes it took me to shoot it down would have been nice.

The final straw was picking up some hydrogen tanks floating in space. Next time I was scanned by the police I was fined for stolen goods. For no apparent reason.

None of the above incidents were explained in any shape or form within the game, and my conclusions are mainly educated guesses based on browsing forum posts. If I was a n00b who picked up the game forums unseen - I bet the majority of incoming players -, I would have probably quit the game in disgust.

I netted out around 25k negative credits in about two hours, and have about 14k in bounties on me - 12k of which is another funny story -, and a Wanted status. Back to grinding trade routes it is.

I'm well aware it's beta. And I'm fine with difficulty. But poor communication is just frustrating, and needs to be improved upon in future builds.

Suggestions:

• Add a log telling what happened, and why, when you are being attacked
• Tell players before they commit a capital crime before they are creamed whenever possible
• Flotsam and jetsam should be free-for-all, or at least a dialogue warning about their illegal status should pop up
• Insurance system should be explained when buying ships and mods, and your current insurance cost should be readily available before you die
• Better explanation of power draws of different modules, and why your ship goes offline

 

[RCKJD]

As I was just about to enter the station, an NPC Anaconda emerged with its Rubenesque hips, blocking my route. I hit negative thrust immediately, and then I'm not entirely sure what happened. I might have bumped the station and/or the Anaconda, but all I know is that the station attacked me, and within about 1.5 seconds spread me and my gold dust on the windshield of the Anaconda. For no apparent reason.

To add insult to injury, I got a fine. For no apparent reason.

Nope, the reason was: "illegal salvage operation" with stolen cargo (the gold) in your hold. They scanned you, saw you had stolen goods in the cargo and since they can't know whether you found them just floating in the void or found them floating in the void after you murdered the original owner they decided to blow you up.
Seen Firefly? Remember the "illegal salvage" operation in the pilot and the Serenity barely escaping the Alliance cruiser? Yep, just like that.

 

[Xenith]

Nope, the reason was: "illegal salvage operation" with stolen cargo (the gold) in your hold. They scanned you, saw you had stolen goods in the cargo and since they can't know whether you found them just floating in the void or found them floating in the void after you murdered the original owner they decided to blow you up.
Seen Firefly? Remember the "illegal salvage" operation in the pilot and the Serenity barely escaping the Alliance cruiser? Yep, just like that.

But no explanation, nor any warnings given. That is the point.

 

[CaptainSodom]

Nope, the reason was: "illegal salvage operation" with stolen cargo (the gold) in your hold. They scanned you, saw you had stolen goods in the cargo and since they can't know whether you found them just floating in the void or found them floating in the void after you murdered the original owner they decided to blow you up.

Ah, thanks.

But no explanation, nor any warnings given. That is the point.

This. I got blasted meters away from the station entrance, and there were no warnings, no explanation.

At least the second time with hydrogen tanks which "fell off a hauler" I only got a bounty on my head.

 

[scrufferpops]

Yes the game can be quite unforgiving, to be sure. :/

 

[Xenith]

Yes the game can be quite unforgiving, to be sure. :/

Unforgiving is fine, in the right circumstances, and with proper explanation.

 

[Slawkenbergius]

Yep. I agree that there needs to be work on how the game communicates itself.

Some things it's cool to learn without being taught. Some things it's just off-putting. Frontier will need to find that balance as they move towards general release.

 

[CaptainSodom]

Yep. I agree that there needs to be work on how the game communicates itself.

Some things it's cool to learn without being taught. Some things it's just off-putting. Frontier will need to find that balance as they move towards general release.

That is a very good point, and agree 100%.

I really like how they don't explain what is the best way to dock your ship or approach your destination in supercruise, for example, so you're forced to find it out by trial and error. That's how we learned games back in the old days.

But having unexplained things just happen to you, which clearly occur because you did something but don't know what, that's just frustrating. It lacks the opportunity to learn from your mistakes, which does happen when you are learning how to dock.

 

[Vandaahl]

Good constructive post. I guess the Alpha and Premium Beta lot got a head start, while for the Beta's its a pretty steep learning curve indeed. I can only say, ask on this board as much as possible and as soon as possible (before it becomes frustrating ). There will always be someone there to clear things up.

 

[CaptainSodom]

Good constructive post. I guess the Alpha and Premium Beta lot got a head start, while for the Beta's its a pretty steep learning curve indeed. I can only say, ask on this board as much as possible and as soon as possible (before it becomes frustrating ). There will always be someone there to clear things up.

I'm actually not that frustrated - third time I lost all my savings, first two were funny tragic accidents -, and I'm glad my post comes off as constructive rather than ranting, which I tried to avoid.

One of the implicit points about my post was that forums are not an answer, though. Forum dwellers are a small subset of any game's playerbase - Dwarf Fortress being the probable exception -, and relying on forum messages to reach players will not be enough after launch. It's fine during beta.

The design goal should be that the in-game UI must give enough explanation and clues for the average player to get a good understanding of what's going on.

 

[Vandaahl]

Forum dwellers are a small subset of any game's playerbase - Dwarf Fortress being the probable exception -, and relying on forum messages to reach players will not be enough after launch. It's fine during beta.

True and true. The rules of this world aren't concrete yet.

When Elite went to market back in the 80's, most other games were just sold as a music cassette. Elite was sold in packages that would just pop open due to all the content it was trying to keep together. A star map, a manual a key layout and what not. I guess the problem will be thoroughly dealt with before launch

 

[Cdr. Setesh Jaeger]

You should get a warning that you are being scanned. If that was the case then you need to be aware of your cargo and when entering a station other than in an anarchy system with stolen goods, you need to get in and docked as quickly as possible to avoid any scans.

However, if you were in the mail slot when the Anaconda decided to come through and you stopped and backed up, then it is possible you got a loitering/trespassing warning (which are much less pronounced) and then failed to adhere quickly enough in which case they blasted you to dust.

Two things I read in the DDA, not all stations will be equal. You can already start to see this as the exteriors being different, and some have the new fancy interiors with more advanced docking UI's. They also mention that some stations won't have rotation correction but more importantly, some stations will have mandatory scans before you can enter. This will be important to keep in mind when holding stolen goods.

The other thing I wanted to mention, was that there are plans to improve the way free floating cargo is marked making it possible to pick up cargo that doesn't instantly get marked as stolen.

 

[Distance]

The information is there but you have to realize one of the last things to be done for the game will be the manual. I strongly suggest you check out the design document which pretty much lists in detail every aspect of what the game will be at launch.

http://www.mediafire.com/?vide3a20jc8ntdt

Someone posted it on media fire. It's an essential read and if more people knew about it and read it there would be less Whinny posts on the forum and less people complaining and proposing stuff that's already being worked on (not aimed at you).

 

[CaptainSodom]

The information is there but you have to realize one of the last things to be done for the game will be the manual. I strongly suggest you check out the design document which pretty much lists in detail every aspect of what the game will be at launch.

http://www.mediafire.com/?vide3a20jc8ntdt

Someone posted it on media fire. It's an essential read and if more people knew about it and read it there would be less Whinny posts on the forum and less people complaining and proposing stuff that's already being worked on (not aimed at you).

An essential read? Are you seriously suggesting players to read a ONE HUNDRED AND FOURTEEN PAGE DOCUMENT before they play a game.

Get real.

You should get a warning that you are being scanned. If that was the case then you need to be aware of your cargo and when entering a station other than in an anarchy system with stolen goods, you need to get in and docked as quickly as possible to avoid any scans.

However, if you were in the mail slot when the Anaconda decided to come through and you stopped and backed up, then it is possible you got a loitering/trespassing warning (which are much less pronounced) and then failed to adhere quickly enough in which case they blasted you to dust.

I thought about the loitering thing, but I was at the entrance for literally a second before I got blasted with no warning, so I doubt that was the cause. I might have received a cargo scan warning, but was too busy avoiding the 'conda.

 

[Frobitz]

You should get a warning that you are being scanned. If that was the case then you need to be aware of your cargo and when entering a station other than in an anarchy system with stolen goods, you need to get in and docked as quickly as possible to avoid any scans.

This. If it was stolen cargo you would be very aware you were being scanned as your ship would visibly and audibly warn you, and would get a message from the ship or whatever doing the scanning, plus a bounty warning.

I know because it happened to me. Try watching around 2m20s onward in this video: http://youtu.be/h4mw8_ob6ok

 

[Distance]

Unfortunately that's how complex the game is. This isn't a jump in pew pew pew casual/aaa game. It will have masses of depth, beta hasn't even scratched the surface. Back in the day games had massive manuals, this is a game designed to be like an older game with masses of depth and thus it will require a massive learning curve. It's not called elite for nothing and you'll not be able to get an elite rating in combat, exploration, trading or diplomacy without a large time investment.

 

[CaptainSodom]

Unfortunately that's how complex the game is. This isn't a jump in pew pew pew casual/aaa game. It will have masses of depth, beta hasn't even scratched the surface. Back in the day games had massive manuals, this is a game designed to be like an older game with masses of depth and thus it will require a massive learning curve. It's not called elite for nothing and you'll not be able to get an elite rating in combat, exploration, trading or diplomacy without a large time investment.

I get all that. That's no excuse for the game to be abstruse about WTH is happening in situations I describe.

Besides, out-doing EVE in steepness of learning curve is not a design goal I would be proud of

 

[Distance]

Like I said though, it's not being intentionally obtuse, it's beta, it's unfinished and constantly changing hence why there are no instructions. Did you ever play minecraft? There's no manual persay but if you looked at the wiki I'm sure it's come out to more than 100 pages.
Everyone else here who knows things about the game learned the same way, sure it's frustrating at times but you've got to put effort in to learn if you want to make the best of the situation. You could make a new thread every time you need some thing explained to you and by the looks of it everyone is right now. Alternatively you could read the above manual (or the closest thing there's going to be to a manual until final release) and learn for your self the way others have
You'll progress a lot faster by knowing the game mechanics than stopping playing due to frustration and having to ask questions everytime you come up against an obstacle. You've cared enough to spend 50 quid on a beta and you owe it to your self to get the best out of that investment.

 

[CaptainSodom]

You could make a new thread every time you need some thing explained to you

You ask and you shall receive

And I spent more than the EUR equivalent of 50 quid, as I'm a KS backer.

 

[Distance]

Lol I've only been playing since beta, you should be answering my questions, but wait! I read the manual