Alien archaeology and other mysteries: Breaking News, Theories and Tinfoil Hattery

[Hanerib]

The way I see it, all Thargoid technology has biological components and could be considered "alive". Thus all products of Thargoid civilization we are countering, such as scavengers, interceptors and ground bases could be considered species, that are in symbiotic relationship with Thargoids. Like ants do with some species of mushrooms. As such their species could be an amalgamate of biological evolution and technological advancement, meaning they are fully adapted to their technology. Perhaps to the point that there might not be an "end-user" for their products, if ignoring other sources for thargoid lore all their bases and ships seem awfully empty. In comparison, humans are more or less biologically adapted to using handtools and clothes. Humans can also differentiate between instrumental value and intrisic value, which thargoids could totally lack.

This is something that could explain the nature of their hyperspace capabilities. I don't think they even can go very far without planting barnacles before, making travelling very slow. Yet they can spend weeks in witchspace and jump into instances. Maybe they don't do exploring, but make systems with capability to support their vessels part of their ecosystem.

For Thargoids inventing and applying of new technology could be a matter of evolution, which is then tested for its survivability. But they cannot adapt and thus reinvent themselves, explaining their apparent incapabilities and internal schisms and warfare.

Further topics for study: Philosophy of science, Value theory, Convergent evolution, Emergence.

 

[Toffmeister]

The way I see it, all Thargoid technology has biological components and could be considered "alive". Thus all products of Thargoid civilization we are countering, such as scavengers, interceptors and ground bases could be considered species, that are in symbiotic relationship with Thargoids. Like ants do with some species of mushrooms. As such their species could be an amalgamate of biological evolution and technological advancement, meaning they are fully adapted to their technology. Perhaps to the point that there might not be an "end-user" for their products, if ignoring other sources for thargoid lore all their bases and ships seem awfully empty. In comparison, humans are more or less biologically adapted to using handtools and clothes. Humans can also differentiate between instrumental value and intrisic value, which thargoids could totally lack.

This is something that could explain the nature of their hyperspace capabilities. I don't think they even can go very far without planting barnacles before, making travelling very slow. Yet they can spend weeks in witchspace and jump into instances. Maybe they don't do exploring, but make systems with capability to support their vessels part of their ecosystem.

For Thargoids inventing and applying of new technology could be a matter of evolution, which is then tested for its survivability. But they cannot adapt and thus reinvent themselves, explaining their apparent incapabilities and internal schisms and warfare.

Further topics for study: Philosophy of science, Value theory, Convergent evolution, Emergence.

Think Bees. The Thargoids are Bees. They pollinate/cross pollinate space Flora to get the desired results. I think that's what they did at the Barnacle sites with that beam.

The space flora we have encountered so far Mounds/Pumpkins/Brain trees and barnacles must have SOME way of propagating across the void, and some way of pollinating, that's where the Thargoids step in, they take a "cutting" and plant said cutting in the appropriate place, then cross pollinate to produce the desired result. The artefacts are the same as the Earth bees "Dance" showing where and how far certain resources are. The Thargoid ship finds an artefact out in the void, signals it, and the artefact "Dances electronically" to give directions etc.

I'm sure they are more sophisticated than I've made out here, but intrinsically they are a far advanced space Bee. Everyone keeps alluding to ants and hive minds, but there is more than one kind of hive insect.

 

[Thatchinho]

Just reporting a new record for proximity of Braintrees to Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3: 92.8 ly. This time on Synuefe IH-T d4-14 A 4 a, about 8 ly closer than the previous set.

 

[Finlad1]

Has anybody noticed the 2 vents inside the thargoid central chamber? They are on the ceiling and are circular with 4 flanges. Almost biological valve looking. If you use the camera suite to view inside, beyond the flange is a tube and a dead end.
It looks like it has been designed to spawn something inside and then drop it down. Any ideas on this?

 

[Louis Calvert]

Think Bees. The Thargoids are Bees. They pollinate/cross pollinate space Flora to get the desired results. I think that's what they did at the Barnacle sites with that beam.

The space flora we have encountered so far Mounds/Pumpkins/Brain trees and barnacles must have SOME way of propagating across the void, and some way of pollinating, that's where the Thargoids step in, they take a "cutting" and plant said cutting in the appropriate place, then cross pollinate to produce the desired result. The artefacts are the same as the Earth bees "Dance" showing where and how far certain resources are. The Thargoid ship finds an artefact out in the void, signals it, and the artefact "Dances electronically" to give directions etc.

I'm sure they are more sophisticated than I've made out here, but intrinsically they are a far advanced space Bee. Everyone keeps alluding to ants and hive minds, but there is more than one kind of hive insect.

That's a pretty interesting idea. I like the 'pollination' concept and the 'dance' communication, very cool idea indeed! I wonder if it's possible to work the Brantrees into this too, since they seem to cross the void too, and they appear near Guardian sites, and we know there's some link between Guardians and Thargoids...

I cannot now, however, help thinking of Thargoids as having a fluffy yellow 'coat', it sort of makes them a bit less menacing.

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

Did the empty POI at Ross 446 1 ever get fixed? I know FD acknowledged the bug reports but not heard anything since.

same with the Caucuma LP (also reported & acknowledged) that gives a pointless message as there is no encrypted message in any of the local news posts for it to unlock.

 

[Toffmeister]

That's a pretty interesting idea. I like the 'pollination' concept and the 'dance' communication, very cool idea indeed! I wonder if it's possible to work the Brantrees into this too, since they seem to cross the void too, and they appear near Guardian sites, and we know there's some link between Guardians and Thargoids...

I cannot now, however, help thinking of Thargoids as having a fluffy yellow 'coat', it sort of makes them a bit less menacing.

Ok now look at the Guardians...who were/are basically a warlike,xenophobic,semi automated (AI) bunch of religious nutters, but people seem to think that if we can find them we can ally and defeat the Thargoids...which is a bit like thinking you can make friend with Daleks. Personally I suspect Fdev are laughing at us because we have picked the wrong fight.

Still, even if the Thargoids were friendly, there's still so many players would want to "Bag thamselves one of them thar ayleeans". So we are stuffed either way.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

Reading the latest CG description:

"The Federation has launched an initiative to develop autonomous military hardware with which to fight the Thargoids."

This suggests AI, which as far as I remember is a 'forbidden' technology. I wonder what this will mean down the road.

 

[Vasious]

Reading the latest CG description:

"The Federation has launched an initiative to develop autonomous military hardware with which to fight the Thargoids."

This suggests AI, which as far as I remember is a 'forbidden' technology. I wonder what this will mean down the road.

Machine Intelligence is forbidden, autonomous technology isn't.
Skimmers as an example, as are limpets, as well Achilles Robotics, and the cargo loading drones in the novels (which may be a product of Achilles Robotics)

 

[fieval]

Wasn't there some talk of Sirius Corp developing autonomous armed probes at an earlier stage in the game?

Wonder where they went ?

Was posted in Galnet - 07 OCT 3302, but nothing since ?

 

[M. Volgrand]

Wasn't there some talk of Sirius Corp developing autonomous armed probes at an earlier stage in the game?

Wonder where they went ?

Was posted in Galnet - 07 OCT 3302, but nothing since ?

Yeah, found it:

spokesperson for the Sirius Corporation has revealed that the mega-corporation has deployed hundreds of deep-space probes and signalling technologies throughout the galaxy.

The spokesperson said: "Sending pilots into the void is fraught with danger. These probes can go further and faster than a human pilot, at much reduced cost and with, I daresay, more reliability. We've been working closely with the Mars High Astrocartography department on the probes' design."

"Human pilots are interested in sightseeing, chasing myths and 'making their mark' on the galactic stage. They get sidetracked. Our probes are immune to such distractions. At present, galactic exploration is conducted in a sporadic and improvisational way. Soon we will have far better coverage of the galaxy."

One independent pilot, who opted to remain anonymous, said: "There's something odd about this. I'd hazard a guess these probes have self-defence capabilities. I'll be giving them a wide berth."

Source: https://community.elitedangerous.com/en/galnet/uid/57f76fc89657ba7153edfc13

This new really seems related to the announcement made by Felicia Winters.

I have written an open letter to Zachary Hudson and Felicia Winters. Please read it and, if you agree, share it too! https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...son-and-Felicia-Winters?p=6418496#post6418496

 

[M. Volgrand]

Machine Intelligence is forbidden, autonomous technology isn't.
Skimmers as an example, as are limpets, as well Achilles Robotics, and the cargo loading drones in the novels (which may be a product of Achilles Robotics)

The word "Autonomous" is very ambiguous. The Sentry Skimmers can just fly a set location and engaged hostiles, their AI is very limited, as are cargo drones and so. However, developping new "Autonomous Military Hardware" invites to think in something way more advanced and able to engage against the Thargoids. And we must remember that the Thargoids are actually a threat even for the most skilled pilots in the galaxy.

Creating an "autonomous drone" able to operate in space (calculating trajectories, etc) and actively engaging an enemy is surely related to a more advanced form of AI.

 

[M. Volgrand]

I'm sure not I am the first who bring this up, in fact the bases were found before 2.4, but something just shocked me. Sorry if this was discussed before.
I collected some materials, and messed around with my collection, when I read the Thargoid carapace description. I am sure i also read this when we first found the Scavengers, but somehow I missed it. Maybe too much was the information in one time.

So: Creatures
I'm not native English, but for me the 'creature' means living thing. Pls correct me if this is wrong, and can be a non living thing also.
From description "..allowing the creatures to survive.." So we have a clear in game statement, the Scavengers are Living being? Till now, i was sure those are some manufactured stupid drones, like the Skimmers.
I mean, still can be manufactured, but bio-engineered creatures, like for example cloned spiders. But to be honest, with those spiraling tail driving, Scavengers doesn't look like some "living being"
On the other hand, Braben stated, they making the Thargoids really alien. Could be the Scavengers not manufactured drones, but some really living? Like we used Leeches for medical purposes. Thargoids using some alien creatures for cleaning/repairing/feeding their bases/barnacles.

Spoiler

https://i.imgur.com/6dfRJn5.png

Edit: Or like we can make Computers, and AI, Thargoids can make, bio-engineer some living creatures, but those are nothing more than like a calculator with only one functionality.

I do believe that this is a very interesting phylosophical question. They actually act like human drones: They have very fixed set of actions and pre-programmed jobs (cleaning dirt, spitting it around, and engaging hostiles). However hey do lack of what we could understand as "empathy", as they will simply hover over the remains of their dead comrades without even paying attention to them, apparently.

The question is: The fact that they are "built" with organic materials does make the Thargoid Drones any different from an sentry Skimmer?

 

[Rubbernuke]

Wasn't there some talk of Sirius Corp developing autonomous armed probes at an earlier stage in the game?

Wonder where they went ?

Was posted in Galnet - 07 OCT 3302, but nothing since ?

Those are the listening posts you now find.

 

[Louis Calvert]

The word "Autonomous" is very ambiguous. The Sentry Skimmers can just fly a set location and engaged hostiles, their AI is very limited, as are cargo drones and so. However, developping new "Autonomous Military Hardware" invites to think in something way more advanced and able to engage against the Thargoids. And we must remember that the Thargoids are actually a threat even for the most skilled pilots in the galaxy.

Creating an "autonomous drone" able to operate in space (calculating trajectories, etc) and actively engaging an enemy is surely related to a more advanced form of AI.

I agree, there's actually an abandoned base somewhere (can't find the link right now) where they seem to be trying to develop smarter skimmer drones and they go crazy and kill everyone. It seems that in ED whenever you approaching "thinking machine" stage Smart-AI seems to go a bit Skynet!

This is from MB himself:

“Part of the secret history of the universe is that AI (sentient machine) has been created on a few occasions and they’ve proven to be so dangerous that they’ve basically been banned. AI is one of the few things that the Alliance, independents, Empire and Federation will actively work together against to defeat if they have to. It’s not made public knowledge, because they don’t want people to be actively working on it, but things are kept behind the scenes to make sure such technology never develops. That doesn’t mean of course that it hasn’t. It is believed that maybe one or two have escaped into deep space, but who knows, maybe we should find out.” Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6z5...utu.be&t=8m31s

"It's not AI that's banned, but machine sentience. You can still have smart computers, but they're not allowed to be self-aware." "Self awareness is a different construct to intelligence. You can have a system making intelligent decisions without being self-aware, although finding a definition of self-awareness or intelligence that everyone agrees with is probably a bigger challenge" "Mimicking humans isn't a greatest test of intelligence in my opinion. Machine intelligence would be of a different order to human thinking." Source: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...Universe/page3

 

[Vasious]

Wasn't there some talk of Sirius Corp developing autonomous armed probes at an earlier stage in the game?

Wonder where they went ?

Was posted in Galnet - 07 OCT 3302, but nothing since ?

I thought they were FTL capable probes and a reference to the Nav Beacon like probes found on planet surfaces

 

[fieval]

Those are the listening posts you now find.

OK, Is that mentioned somewhere?
I must have missed it.

 

[Rubbernuke]

OK, Is that mentioned somewhere?
I must have missed it.

"spokesperson for the Sirius Corporation has revealed that the mega-corporation has deployed hundreds of deep-space probes and signalling technologies throughout the galaxy.

The spokesperson said: "Sending pilots into the void is fraught with danger. These probes can go further and faster than a human pilot, at much reduced cost and with, I daresay, more reliability. We've been working closely with the Mars High Astrocartography department on the probes' design."

"Human pilots are interested in sightseeing, chasing myths and 'making their mark' on the galactic stage. They get sidetracked. Our probes are immune to such distractions. At present, galactic exploration is conducted in a sporadic and improvisational way. Soon we will have far better coverage of the galaxy."

One independent pilot, who opted to remain anonymous, said: "There's something odd about this. I'd hazard a guess these probes have self-defence capabilities. I'll be giving them a wide berth."

I had always assumed it was the listening posts this referred to.

 

[Louis Calvert]

This is from the Raxxla thread, I'm reposting it here since it relates obliquely to Thargoids: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-Find-Raxxla?p=6425212&viewfull=1#post6425212

Full credit goes to MakahiGames for asking the question on Reddit and getting a reply from Drew Wagar that's pretty interesting: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/7x8gc9/is_raxxla_really_there/dugcjsm/

Raxxla : I was told, in person, by David Braben in 2014 that it was in the game and Frontier Devs knew where it was.

I was never part of any background lore that I was made aware of or read - so I personally don't know where it is.

My own guess is that it can't be that far out of the core worlds, as it was reachable by the far slower hyperdrive systems of the previous game periods (prior to the FSD).

"The Club" was a lore construct provided by Frontier that I used in the novel, thus I am not aware of the full scope of their powers.

All I can say is that the question regarding the 'Permit Locked' systems... is a very good question indeed.

The part that's potentially interesting to Thargoid Theorists might be the info that the The Club wasn't a creation of Drew for the novels, it was provided by Frontier themselves. That might mean that The Club are actually present (or a hidden presence) in many more parts of the game than we thought.

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

This is from the Raxxla thread, I'm reposting it here since it relates obliquely to Thargoids: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-Find-Raxxla?p=6425212&viewfull=1#post6425212

Full credit goes to MakahiGames for asking the question on Reddit and getting a reply from Drew Wagar that's pretty interesting: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/7x8gc9/is_raxxla_really_there/dugcjsm/



The part that's potentially interesting to Thargoid Theorists might be the info that the The Club wasn't a creation of Drew for the novels, it was provided by Frontier themselves. That might mean that The Club are actually present (or a hidden presence) in many more parts of the game than we thought.

That’s good to know, though I think the way the catering CG (after Salomé’s demise) was constructed (either to support it or to hinder it, with no way to get further information on the attendees & therefore membership of The Club) means that they are intended to remain only a background part of the storyline (at least for now).