“Station-legs" to be a fully developed standalone product? [discuss]

[RamirezKurita]

Sorry but it sounds utterly pants and a waste or resources adding in a whole load of other features to try to justify it. I would prefer they spent that dev time on making getting out of your seat a much better experience.

Basically,I just don't see the need in it.

Oh, I quite agree that spacelegs don't really belong in the game, or at very least not as any near or mid term goal. If they want to look into them 6-7 years from now, I'd probably be more okay with it, but I feel that there's so much that needs to be done in the game at the moment to worry about creating a spinoff.

However, making EliteFeet a complete spinoff would be a great way of raising the funds and encouraging actual content for it. If they can sell it as a standalone expansion for ED, then it will be worth their time as they can then charge full-game prices as long as they offer full-game content. Trying to release EliteFeet as a little walk around station/ship minigame to add an extra timesink to the game as a DLC would be an insult to us as players, a waste of a concept as well as an overall waste of Dev resources (doing first person stuff would basically require the creation of an entirely new game in terms of physics and asses, even for basic movement around stations).

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Oh, I quite agree that spacelegs don't really belong in the game, or at very least not as any near or mid term goal. If they want to look into them 6-7 years from now, I'd probably be more okay with it, but I feel that there's so much that needs to be done in the game at the moment to worry about creating a spinoff.

However, making EliteFeet a complete spinoff would be a great way of raising the funds and encouraging actual content for it. If they can sell it as a standalone expansion for ED, then it will be worth their time as they can then charge full-game prices as long as they offer full-game content. Trying to release EliteFeet as a little walk around station/ship minigame to add an extra timesink to the game as a DLC would be an insult to us as players, a waste of a concept as well as an overall waste of Dev resources (doing first person stuff would basically require the creation of an entirely new game in terms of physics and asses, even for basic movement around stations).

You misunderstand. I think it would be a great addition to the game, but as long as it is done well. I also see no reason for a spin off as I can see it being be a paid for expansion anyway.

But as to actual spin of games with a story line etc, a bit like squadron 42 for SC, that could become a possibility when they have put everything in place to create these spin-off games. They could release them as add-ons for the main game even and you could engage in these "storys" using all of the game instead of just stations. But only after they have fleshed out the whole game including space legs, atmospheric planets and so on.

That to me sounds like a far better idea.

 

[Cosmo]

Oh, I quite agree that spacelegs don't really belong in the game, or at very least not as any near or mid term goal. If they want to look into them 6-7 years from now, I'd probably be more okay with it, but I feel that there's so much that needs to be done in the game at the moment to worry about creating a spinoff.

Space legs does belong in Elite Dangerous, because it's part of the original vision for Elite and part of the roadmap. It's been more than 3 years and to me space legs is becoming overdue. I can understand that they want to focus on getting the core game features right during 2018. So by 2019 we need some major additional features like space legs in order to expand the customer base and attract more players who are holding off, because they prefer to be a Person in space, rather than just a ship.

Trying to release EliteFeet as a little walk around station/ship minigame to add an extra timesink to the game as a DLC would be an insult to us as players, a waste of a concept as well as an overall waste of Dev resources (doing first person stuff would basically require the creation of an entirely new game in terms of physics and asses, even for basic movement around stations).

It does not require the creation of an entirely new game. For example they could already replace the SRV with a player model, then we could walk around on planets and see the true scale with full immersion. Now we're always stuck in a cockpit and on a chair. This is why many people chose Star Citizen over Elite Dangerous, because that does offer first person EVA total immersion.

The Space Legs DLC should come with enough emergent gameplay features to keep people entertained. More stuff would be released overtime.

You misunderstand. I think it would be a great addition to the game, but as long as it is done well. I also see no reason for a spin off as I can see it being be a paid for expansion anyway.

But as to actual spin of games with a story line etc, a bit like squadron 42 for SC, that could become a possibility when they have put everything in place to create these spin-off games. They could release them as add-ons for the main game even and you could engage in these "storys" using all of the game instead of just stations. But only after they have fleshed out the whole game including space legs, atmospheric planets and so on.

That to me sounds like a far better idea.

Seconded. It's easier and faster to release story-driven expansions like Squadron 42 after they've implemented the necessary space legs features that are part of previous DLC.

 

[Boff'in]

But there are TWO expansions Frontier Talked about.

- Walking around Ships (which I call space legs)
- Walking around Stations (which I call station legs or Elite Dangeorus : Mercenary)

 

[Dommarraa]

I genuinely hope they never listen to people like you who don't respect others who do want space legs and extravehicular gameplay in Elite Dangerous.

That comment, "pal", is bang out of order. I expressed my opinion in a polite manner, and showed NO disrespect for any alternative opinion.

 

[Myspace Kaitsu80]

Support to OP from me.

 

[B1rdy]

Space legs does belong in Elite Dangerous, because it's part of the original vision for Elite and part of the roadmap. It's been more than 3 years and to me space legs is becoming overdue. I can understand that they want to focus on getting the core game features right during 2018. So by 2019 we need some major additional features like space legs in order to expand the customer base and attract more players who are holding off, because they prefer to be a Person in space, rather than just a ship.

Since the release of Horizons, which is more than three years ago, we are still waiting for being able to land on lava planets. And you expect "space legs" next year?[uhh] We are also waiting for game play on other planet types as well.

It does not require the creation of an entirely new game. For example they could already replace the SRV with a player model, then we could walk around on planets and see the true scale with full immersion.

Think this through, what really happens if you simply exchange the current SRV game mechanics with FPS/ "on foot" game mechanics? Do you really think it is fun walking a mile from your ship to a base on a barren planet? That is maybe great immersion for the first time, but after that what it will be another tedious and unchallenging game loop.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Since the release of Horizons, which is more than three years ago, we are still waiting for being able to land on lava planets. And you expect "space legs" next year?[uhh] We are also waiting for game play on other planet types as well.

I agree. I would be very surprised if Elite feet comes out next year. We are still waiting on basic atmospheric planets (which maybe coming at the end of this year).

Think this through, what really happens if you simply exchange the current SRV game mechanics with FPS/ "on foot" game mechanics? Do you really think it is fun walking a mile from your ship to a base on a barren planet? That is maybe great immersion for the first time, but after that what it will be another tedious and unchallenging game loop.

Again, I have to agree. Adding Elite feet without any gameplay would be a whole waste of resources. It needs compelling gameplay to go with it otherwise it will be Multicrew all over again. A pointless feature that doesn't add much to the game.

 

[John Xenir]

So how about we gather some ideas on what meaningful things space legs can be employed to?
I'm really curious as to what possible activities this could/should/would open.

Here are a few of mine:
ON-BOARD:
1) in-ship system repairs (life support sounds like one of those supposedly accessible from the inside-only);
2) EVA repairs;
3) transitioning to/from SRV/LSF;
4) SRV/LSF repairs?

STATIONS:
1) station interactions: mission accepting, commodity trading and all that stuff we do from cockpits;
2) social areas (is there actually a need for this? I don't think so, but it's possible);
3) switching ships.

PLANETARY:
(Here the possibilities are much wider due to different surface missions etc.)
1) Mission interactions (as wide as missions currently);
2) Engaging with surface installation interiors (influenced by mission type);
3) Exploration-related activities (actually using drill instead of laser-blasting chunks? New mining activities?)

Come on people, let's try thinking of something meaningful, maybe that'll help FDev push space legs forward sooner if we do half the job

 

[Arioch]

Spoiler

So how about we gather some ideas on what meaningful things space legs can be employed to?
I'm really curious as to what possible activities this could/should/would open.

Here are a few of mine:
ON-BOARD:
1) in-ship system repairs (life support sounds like one of those supposedly accessible from the inside-only);
2) EVA repairs;
3) transitioning to/from SRV/LSF;
4) SRV/LSF repairs?

STATIONS:
1) station interactions: mission accepting, commodity trading and all that stuff we do from cockpits;
2) social areas (is there actually a need for this? I don't think so, but it's possible);
3) switching ships.

PLANETARY:
(Here the possibilities are much wider due to different surface missions etc.)
1) Mission interactions (as wide as missions currently);
2) Engaging with surface installation interiors (influenced by mission type);
3) Exploration-related activities (actually using drill instead of laser-blasting chunks? New mining activities?)

Come on people, let's try thinking of something meaningful, maybe that'll help FDev push space legs forward sooner if we do half the job

With your Stations ideas, I'd want FDev to take a leaf from Mount&Blade Warband's book - keep the ability to do it all from menus, but if you do take a wander then you might get some easter eggs.

Dealing with mission givers face-to-face might give you one-off missions or build up your rep quicker etc. giving you a reason to walk. I'd also be partial to Black Markets being off the menu and into a shady cantina on the Station concourse, with the possibility of Police sting operations like the fake dealers from Frontier Elite 2.

One thing I thought the other night while going "EVA" in the camera suite, flying around the station interior - having to tag a ship with a McGuffin as it was leaving the Station or having to do something that requires being on the exterior of the target ship, giving you a short time window to do the whatever-it-is before it exits the Station and enters SuperCruise, turning you into a warp bubble altered Cronenberg.

Planet photography missions from FE2 - instead of risky high-speed flybys and ensuing aerial brouhaha, a SRV and on-foot approach similar to scoping out villages in MGSV.

Edit: thinking further about how a Space Legs expansion might be bolted on to existing missions - assassinate an NPC as per normal, but with SL you could then EVA to any escape pods (or scoop them and deal with them in your hold) and do other stuff (hack fake attacker ID to frame someone, ensure real death, set them free for a price, etc).

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

So how about we gather some ideas on what meaningful things space legs can be employed to?
I'm really curious as to what possible activities this could/should/would open.

I will add on to yours.

Here are a few of:
ON-BOARD:
Change how repair limpets and the AFMU work and make them band aids instead so the repairs degrade over time. If you want permananet repairs you need to:-
1) in-ship system repairs (life support sounds like one of those supposedly accessible from the inside-only);
2) EVA repairs;

Also these:-
1) transitioning to/from SRV/LSF;
2) SRV/LSF repairs?

STATIONS:
1) station interactions: mission accepting, commodity trading and all that stuff we do from cockpits;
No point in having the same interaction in the ship that you get out of the ship. If you stay in your ship or don't get the elite feet update you get the mission board as it is now. If you get out of your ship and meet the people in question you can have a more meaningful interaction which could give you more option to the job. Need to make going into the station worthwhile.

Also add in mission destinations, black market contacts (more than one) and so forth.

2) social areas (is there actually a need for this? I don't think so, but it's possible);
Probably not needed, but could be added to fleet carriers. Maybe have bars where you can pick up hints about things.

3) switching ships.
Yes

PLANETARY:
(Here the possibilities are much wider due to different surface missions etc.)
1) Mission interactions (as wide as missions currently);
2) Engaging with surface installation interiors (influenced by mission type);
3) Exploration-related activities (actually using drill instead of laser-blasting chunks? New mining activities?)
Explore alien ruins, abandoned outposts instead of just scanning some datalinks outside the outpost

Come on people, let's try thinking of something meaningful, maybe that'll help FDev push space legs forward sooner if we do half the job

EVA to other ships for salvage. EVA to other ships to find a specific items for missions.

 

[John Streutker]

I don`t get, why people expect these days space games should for some reason include game mechanics from all genres? I have never seen anyone wanting to walk around the pit lane in Assetto Corsa and do RPG stuff. Has anyone ever wanted to fly a plane in The Division?
This request is especially interesting, because FDev doesn´t even get the space ship part right, a.k.a. the core mechanics.

You've never seen anyone wanting to walk the pit-lanes because in the past these mechanics were rare. Why not fly the plane in Division? (I've never played either of those games so I'm just speaking of possible vs. impossible, not from experience.) Nobody thought they were possible, or at least realistically hoped for. But Eve Online opened up a new world, for better or worse, with the pc/space side vs. console/fps side. People see that it is possible for a "space-sim" to be more than a "space-sim". It can be a "reality-sim". Why can't we hope for more?
As kids we all made a wishlist for Christmas (well, most of us) and when we only got some of those things we didn't hate our parents. There's nothing wrong with expressing a desire for "more", especially if you work out a plan to help design it.

 

[Magnum62666]

I wouldnt want it to be a seperate game, a paid expansion will be just fine. As far as what its used for they need to not make it another call of duty/battlefield, as that will just attract more who only care about killing. Im persoanlly lookking forward to one day being able to walk around my ship, interact with my systems,see my cargo, lounge in a customizeable captains cabin, go outside and repair stuff, repair stuff inside my ship, and walk around on some planets. I really dont care much for shooting "people" in this game. If I have the urge to do that ill just board my FDL and fire away.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

And I will continue the process

I will add on to yours.

Here are a few of:
ON-BOARD:
Change how repair limpets and the AFMU work and make them band aids instead so the repairs degrade over time.
I'm a starship pilot, not a theoretical physicist - why on Earth would I be better at fixing an FSD drive than an automated system?
If you want permananet repairs you need to:-
1) in-ship system repairs (life support sounds like one of those supposedly accessible from the inside-only);
2) EVA repairs;

Also these:-
1) transitioning to/from SRV/LSF;
2) SRV/LSF repairs?
This won't be any fun on a big ship - having to spend 5 minutes navigating corridors is NOT compelling gameplay

STATIONS:
1) station interactions: mission accepting, commodity trading and all that stuff we do from cockpits;
No point in having the same interaction in the ship that you get out of the ship. If you stay in your ship or don't get the elite feet update you get the mission board as it is now. If you get out of your ship and meet the people in question you can have a more meaningful interaction which could give you more option to the job. Need to make going into the station worthwhile.
Disagree. If people want to walk about that's up to them, but ithouldn't be forcing it on players by making it a better option

Also add in mission destinations, black market contacts (more than one) and so forth.

2) social areas (is there actually a need for this? I don't think so, but it's possible);
Probably not needed, but could be added to fleet carriers. Maybe have bars where you can pick up hints about things.
Agree that it's not needed except for fleet carriers.
Again, bars shouldn't give you anything that isn't available from other sources (local Galnet)

3) switching ships.
Yes
As long as it's optional

PLANETARY:
(Here the possibilities are much wider due to different surface missions etc.)
1) Mission interactions (as wide as missions currently);
2) Engaging with surface installation interiors (influenced by mission type);
3) Exploration-related activities (actually using drill instead of laser-blasting chunks? New mining activities?)
Explore alien ruins, abandoned outposts instead of just scanning some datalinks outside the outpost
I'd rather there were new mechanics, rather than simply the same mechanics as the SRV but in smaller spaces


EVA to other ships for salvage. EVA to other ships to find a specific items for missions.
This still runs the risk of being existing mechanics but in a smaller space. Maybe some kind of puzzles (think System Shock hacking or Skyrim lockpicking) to access areas, rather than just a select and hold a button down

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

And I will continue the process

I disagree with everything you said. It's like paying for horizons then giving everything we payed for to people who haven't. We have horizons, we have better options for mission, we have engineers etc. Maybe we should have given all that to vanilla ED as well even though we paid for it.

Madness. Of course Elite feet should give you more options to you then vanilla or horizons. Otherwise there would be no point in buying it.

 

[Daish]

Space legs would be great , however the game is not quite ready yet, Even though can't believe i'm saying it the game needs a lot of attention before legs come about for example:

1,Much MUCH Wreck sites in space and on planets to explore (right now they are just the base model plonked in space or planted in the ground, no real effort has been given them!! I'm sad to say
2, Integrating stations in space and planets to make it a place to walk about.
3, weapon fights though many players would like this I feel this could come a lot later once the legs are set up slowly and surely.

In short we are not quite ready for our space legs right now, because Elite space isn't there yet.

 

[askavir]

This won't be any fun on a big ship - having to spend 5 minutes navigating corridors is NOT compelling gameplay

The Cutter which is currently the largest ship in terms of size, has 192 meters from tip to tip.

Certainly you can walk 192 meters (worst case scenario) in far, far less than 5 minutes...

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

The Cutter which is currently the largest ship in terms of size, has 192 meters from tip to tip.

Certainly you can walk 192 meters (worst case scenario) in far, far less than 5 minutes...

Well 5 mins is something of an exaggeration, but 100m is a minute's walk assuming you're going directly, which isn't going to be the case inside a ship.
That'll get boring real quick.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I disagree with everything you said. It's like paying for horizons then giving everything we payed for to people who haven't. We have horizons, we have better options for mission, we have engineers etc. Maybe we should have given all that to vanilla ED as well even though we paid for it.

Madness. Of course Elite feet should give you more options to you then vanilla or horizons. Otherwise there would be no point in buying it.

Maybe I'm getting the wrong end of the stick here, but you seem to be arguing for extra stuff for spacelegs to justify having them, rather than providing a compelling reason for implementing them.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Maybe I'm getting the wrong end of the stick here, but you seem to be arguing for extra stuff for spacelegs to justify having them, rather than providing a compelling reason for implementing them.

Nope. It's giving compelling reasons to use them. Of course, you don't need to buy the expansion when/If it comes out. It will be optional. But if you want the options and gameplay that elite feet has, you need to pay for it.

But I don't expect it for at least 2-3 years as there is much more to sort out in the main game.