The combat focus of the game

[gooddoc]

I'm combat-oriented but I'd love Sandro to introduce a shield nerf....then STOP! Just STOP!!

I think there are simply far too many permutations/combinations of weapons/effects & counters. Some complexity is great, but imo the current state of this game has created a '...wood for the trees' (or the clichéd 'rock/paper/scissors') situation...certainly for a casual player like myself. Factor in the Thargoid weaponry & yet more weps in 3.0 & urgghhh, I'm done!

Maybe players with more time to devote to this, such as StiTch, Morbad & Truesilver feel differently!

#nomoreeffingweaponsplease

Not a chance!!

Now that FD have got ED running on both the XBox & PS4, to cater for the majority of their pewpewers, there will be EVEN MORE stuff to blast at things that both move & don't move.

Sadly that's the modern day gaming industry for you......still at least the graphics are better than't owden days!

 

[[VR] Enexemander]

I look at it from the flight sim perspective. Our ships are capable of amazing feats of agility. Aside from combat, how does the game show this off?

That's why I don't mind the combat focus. Exploring is flying in supercruise and pointing your ship at things. Trading is docking. Mining at least has some orientation complexity. I don't think I would have stuck with the game if I wasn't constantly improving as a pilot.

 

[CMDR Carbo]

I look at it from the flight sim perspective. Our ships are capable of amazing feats of agility. Aside from combat, how does the game show this off?

That's why I don't mind the combat focus. Exploring is flying in supercruise and pointing your ship at things. Trading is docking. Mining at least has some orientation complexity. I don't think I would have stuck with the game if I wasn't constantly improving as a pilot.

That's is more because exploration is under-developed and dull, and basically hasnen't been touched in years. If they had spent as much time to improving exploration and flesh out the universe as they did for combat, it could be much more adventurous, dangerous and interesting.

I mean it's years into the game and we can still play bumper cars with black holes.

There are no anomalies or other dangerous things is space. No collapsing systems or unstable objects.

Asteroid fields you have to select on the map and fly to. They have basically no function in game other than spam the target selection side-screen.

The whole galaxy is basically very dull and harmless in ED, because they didn't improve it like combat or PvP.
I mean even in the first wing commander game that I can remember flying around was more dangerous environment wise that in ED.

 

[Mengy]

That's is more because exploration is under-developed and dull, and basically hasnen't been touched in years. If they had spent as much time to improving exploration and flesh out the universe as they did for combat, it could be much more adventurous, dangerous and interesting.

I mean it's years into the game and we can still play bumper cars with black holes.

There are no anomalies or other dangerous things is space. No collapsing systems or unstable objects.

Asteroid fields you have to select on the map and fly to. They have basically no function in game other than spam the target selection side-screen.

The whole galaxy is basically very dull and harmless in ED, because they didn't improve it like combat or PvP.
I mean even in the first wing commander game that I can remember flying around was more dangerous environment wise that in ED.

Precisely. Combat is so good in Elite simply because it's gotten the lions share of development time. Exploration is bare bones because it hasn't, NOT because it is inherently bad.

 

[[VR] Enexemander]

That's is more because exploration is under-developed and dull, and basically hasnen't been touched in years. If they had spent as much time to improving exploration and flesh out the universe as they did for combat, it could be much more adventurous, dangerous and interesting.

I mean it's years into the game and we can still play bumper cars with black holes.

There are no anomalies or other dangerous things is space. No collapsing systems or unstable objects.

Asteroid fields you have to select on the map and fly to. They have basically no function in game other than spam the target selection side-screen.

The whole galaxy is basically very dull and harmless in ED, because they didn't improve it like combat or PvP.
I mean even in the first wing commander game that I can remember flying around was more dangerous environment wise that in ED.

That's a good point. Imagine landing on unstable planets, or destroyed planets (like Krypton). Exploration in ruins could be nail biting endeavors with an SRV trying to get through long and complicated collapsing tunnels filled with alien traps where you have to retrieve something, or scan ancient alien "art". Man, that would be great. And they wouldn't need to add any functionality to the SRV. Just a great place to have an experience in it.

 

[Tony H.]

Totally agree with OP.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

If they don't continually throw bigger and bigger bones for the pew-pew jockies to beat each other over the head with, the forums flood with posts about how Frontier doesn't care, how the game is dying, how Harmless, Shieldless Type-6's log out instead of blowing up, how when-I-was-a-multi-million-penny-backer-I-was-promised-everything-and-whaa posts, and they're just plain sick of hearing it, kind of like the rest of us, but they can actually do things about it. We just have to endure it. It's like being stuck on a 16 hour flight, next to someone's bratty kid that won't shut up - we all know it just need put over someone's knee and administered a little discipline.

 

[Han Zulu]

Speaking as a combat player, even I feel they made too much of a deliberate effort to cater to pew-pew: combat would have done excellently for half the content FD have given it, but for that content to be well conceived. What we have is effectively multiple seasons spent on developing imbalance (engineering) and a handful of gimmicks. I don't think I've seen a single multi-crewed vessel out in the wild and I know I've not used it.

Agree. Nothing is wrong with combat, multiplayer, and all these things, but somehow they've gone a bit too fast and too far without making each increment actually count and be balanced. It's been too much focus on features and bells-n-whistles instead of implementing a single thing with high quality. Now, in their defense, so many voices with so many wills and wants shouting from the player group doesn't help. Probably difficult to implement a single update while a large group complains the other 52 things haven't been touched yet.

The thing is though, I'm learning patience with this game. Good things come in time, essentially, so even if there's been a lot of combat specific features done, this year seems to fix it. We'll see.

And I think combat will be more fun when there's more to do and more fun to have with all other things as well. If trading becomes a more interesting game play, perhaps there will be more traders to pirate?

 

[Han Zulu]

I'm combat-oriented but I'd love Sandro to introduce a shield nerf....then STOP! Just STOP!!

I think there are simply far too many permutations/combinations of weapons/effects & counters. Some complexity is great, but imo the current state of this game has created a '...wood for the trees' (or the clichéd 'rock/paper/scissors') situation...certainly for a casual player like myself. Factor in the Thargoid weaponry & yet more weps in 3.0 & urgghhh, I'm done!

I thought about that too. The complex engineering mechanics probably have caused more damage to PvP than anything else. It's more a game of grinding to mats and min-maxing the build and then pew-pew for a bit. It's a competition for most impressive gears instead of most impressive skills.

Maybe there will be a chance to make something out of the squadrons later this year, where PvP can be incorporated in larger groups.

 

[Sylveria]

Agree. Nothing is wrong with combat, multiplayer, and all these things, but somehow they've gone a bit too fast and too far without making each increment actually count and be balanced. It's been too much focus on features and bells-n-whistles instead of implementing a single thing with high quality. Now, in their defense, so many voices with so many wills and wants shouting from the player group doesn't help. Probably difficult to implement a single update while a large group complains the other 52 things haven't been touched yet.

The thing is though, I'm learning patience with this game. Good things come in time, essentially, so even if there's been a lot of combat specific features done, this year seems to fix it. We'll see.

And I think combat will be more fun when there's more to do and more fun to have with all other things as well. If trading becomes a more interesting game play, perhaps there will be more traders to pirate?

Methinks this is due to the "multipew is missing!" narrative being bandied about constantly. I have to agree completely that the way they've approached changes and additions to this game have not in any way been balanced at all. Combat has gotten the majority of the attention over the last few years, because of the whinging regarding multipew. C&P? Combat. Engineers? Combat. (although people will argue this till they're blue in the face, it has relatively little to do with anything outside of combat... except space travel, perhaps.)

Meanwhile, the rest of the players have been trying to remain engaged in the original content and what little was provided with Horizons. Yay, we get to land on planets. Now what? Oh, skimmers to shoot at. Combat again. Shooting rocks for materials for.... you guessed it, Combat.

How about adding a bit more engaging depth to the game so that it's not all about "shooting people in the face with lazorz", FD? You know, more scientific purpose? Expand Universal Cartographics data rewards to include extensive surface scans with an SRV? Potential life-forms? Terraforming?

Perhaps if some are incapable (or unwilling) to do the job- maybe it's time for new leadership. I'm sure there are quite a few within Frontier with some new concepts of how to really develop engaging content in this game that doesn't include "shoot stuff make it explode". Oh and before some start with the Elite "Dangerous" trope- there's much more to "danger" than getting shot at in spaceships- like the environment itself, for example. Gamma radiation. Micro-meteors. Lack of oxygen. Potentially threatening lifeforms. Etc.

I don't (and won't) pretend to be a game developer- but I do know there are conceptually more engaging ways to keep a player base in a game than just "pew-pew".

 

[John Xenir]

Good words, Sylveria.

I too was surprised to see there were no upgrades for - for example - fuel scoop besides being shielded or other exploration-wise useless treats.
No increased scooping capability.
Same goes for power plant / power distributor - nothing that could help purely reduce the weight to build ultra-light long-range jumping ships. Just weapon-, engine- and systems-oriented mods that sometimes may have actually dropped some weight reducing bonus. All effects seem to be rather combat-oriented, simply addressing different aspects of it.

That said, I'll see post-3.0 if there are some new special effects available, though the fuel scoop upgrade could be absolutely nice.
Still, can't remember anything like it in beta (not saying there wasn't, just don't remember).

 

[CMDR Pugwash]

I'm combat-oriented but I'd love Sandro to introduce a shield nerf....then STOP! Just STOP!!

I think there are simply far too many permutations/combinations of weapons/effects & counters. Some complexity is great, but imo the current state of this game has created a '...wood for the trees' (or the clichéd 'rock/paper/scissors') situation...certainly for a casual player like myself. Factor in the Thargoid weaponry & yet more weps in 3.0 & urgghhh, I'm done!

Maybe players with more time to devote to this, such as StiTch, Morbad & Truesilver feel differently!

#nomoreeffingweaponsplease

I used to like the simplicity of Elite. It was refreshing after the spreadsheet simulator that is EVE. Skill used to be the important factor in combat.

 

[PS4gamer]

Quite frankly I believe things like Trading, Exploring and Mining will forever get scraps from the table.
Frontier know that something like 95% of their new customers are pewpew kiddies who play trash like CoD and buy Elite to shoot things and cannot comprehend doing something non-violent. So most of their focus and resources goes into upgrades for those people.

True Elite fans who want to play and enjoy the full spectum of experiences in-game have to put up with this decision.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

Shooting rocks for materials for....

Limpets!

 

[Mohrgan]

I wonder if it is possible to discuss game issues like these without angry labels, and insults? I just wonder....

 

[Han Zulu]

Methinks this is due to the "multipew is missing!" narrative being bandied about constantly. I have to agree completely that the way they've approached changes and additions to this game have not in any way been balanced at all. Combat has gotten the majority of the attention over the last few years, because of the whinging regarding multipew. C&P? Combat. Engineers? Combat. (although people will argue this till they're blue in the face, it has relatively little to do with anything outside of combat... except space travel, perhaps.)

Part of it is also that those who wants combat and PvP aren't really happy with the implementations they're getting, and maybe they're the largest group of players, I wouldn't know.

Meanwhile, the rest of the players have been trying to remain engaged in the original content and what little was provided with Horizons. Yay, we get to land on planets. Now what? Oh, skimmers to shoot at. Combat again. Shooting rocks for materials for.... you guessed it, Combat.

Exactly. Why don't we have an exploration SRV that instead of shooting rocks would have a "stone cruncher" builtin. So you pick up the whole rock into cargo, and the extractor crunches it to core elements and you get a high yield output of materials. Shooting rocks is probably the worst and most inefficient way of extracting things. It's like cooking an egg sunny side up by throwing it into a nuclear reactor.

And it took my a long while to realize that the shield on the SRV only protects you from weapons, projectiles and lasers, but not... rocks.

How about adding a bit more engaging depth to the game so that it's not all about "shooting people in the face with lazorz", FD? You know, more scientific purpose? Expand Universal Cartographics data rewards to include extensive surface scans with an SRV? Potential life-forms? Terraforming?

Yup. I want my SLF to have a artifact scanner to find alien structures on remote planets anywhere in the galaxy, not just the Cannon sought out and mapped Guardian ruins. It would be nice to find something myself for once, and not just read about other people's findings. When all the guardian sites are found, there are no more sites to find. So... that part of the game play is over. It would be cool to find other, strange looking ruins 30,000 ly from home.

Perhaps if some are incapable (or unwilling) to do the job- maybe it's time for new leadership. I'm sure there are quite a few within Frontier with some new concepts of how to really develop engaging content in this game that doesn't include "shoot stuff make it explode". Oh and before some start with the Elite "Dangerous" trope- there's much more to "danger" than getting shot at in spaceships- like the environment itself, for example. Gamma radiation. Micro-meteors. Lack of oxygen. Potentially threatening lifeforms. Etc.

Yeah. In a way, it's actually a bit of No Man's Sky babysitting with the exclusion zone around stars and black holes. How about a hardcore mode where you would get destroyed if you enter, with some cool visuals of destruction of your ship.

I don't (and won't) pretend to be a game developer- but I do know there are conceptually more engaging ways to keep a player base in a game than just "pew-pew".

+1000

I'm not much of a combat player. Have a hard time with FPS games for instance, unless it's a campaign. PvP I'm hopeless. Tried CQC, not that good. It's just not my forte. So trading, mining, missions, and exploration, are the tools of my trade.

 

[Mengy]

Frontier know that something like 95% of their new customers are pewpew kiddies who play trash like CoD and buy Elite to shoot things and cannot comprehend doing something non-violent. So most of their focus and resources goes into upgrades for those people.

I know this is the popular reasoning for Frontier’s combat development focus, but I am not sure it’s the reality. On other forums and media on the net I see a rather large population of non-combat players, and most Elite polls show it at more of a 50/50 split between combat and non-combat. Honestly everyone I know in real life who plays the game does so in a mostly non-combat fashion, with very occasional PvE.

It might more be the case that combat content is more marketable, more flashy from an advertising point of view. Seeing how Frontier was always wanting to release console versions, maybe they just wanted to appeal to the “sit on the couch and shoot at things” crowd. However, you need only look to the large sales of games like Kerbal Space Program and No Man’s Sky to see that there is a big audience for space exploration and non-combat gameplay.

Elite has something no other game has: a virtual full size Milky Way. That alone could draw in lots of players, if only they would develop content for the galaxy like they do for blowing stuff up. Hopefully Beyond takes a few very large steps towards doing so. The patch tomorrow is a good first step, now they just need to follow through and keep walking!!!

 

[Achilles7]

I wonder if it is possible to discuss game issues like these without angry labels, and insults? I just wonder....

Did someone call? Oh 'without...'

Sorry, I'll be off then!

 

[Valorin]

I wonder if it is possible to discuss game issues like these without angry labels, and insults? I just wonder....

Apart from a few posts this thread is refreshingly on topic and civilized. I like that actually. Criticism is pretty important I think, but the way it's delivered is more important.
Bashing developers is not only stupid but also respectless in my opinion. So, yes, I would love to see more tools and mechanics that are not combat focused and would love to see more ways to interact with the galaxy simulation apart from shooting at it.

No, I wouldn't in any way discredit the great work the development team did and does. Just to be clear.

 

[Mike Reacher]

I suspect a big part of this may be FD's philosophy of only focusing on features and parts of the game that people actually use. The same reason they stopped developing Powerplay and CQC.

I suspect that combat armed explorers and traders who kill all interdicters (hence combat) are treated by FD as combat lovers.

I have never initiated combat (I lied! I did about 3 assasination missions and about 4 CGs) but because I am deadly FD thinks I love combat.