3.0 offers absolutely no protection against big player ships griefing small player ships

[Deleted member 115407]

You wouldn't describe

OK, I'll give you some rational gameplay explanations....

* I'm in an unwanted ship, unaligned to any power carrying no cargo leaving a station in High Security System...I'm attacked by another Player on leaving the slot

Killing you in this circumstance contributes to negative influence and increase chance of lockdown for the controlling faction. If I'm willing to lose or risk a rebuy over that, then you bet I'll take the opportunity.

Not to mention that it might encourage you to "take your business elsewhere", thus helping to stabilize my BGS.

* I'm in an unwanted ship, unaligned to any power carrying no cargo at a Navigation Beacon...I'm rammed by another player with no warning

lol - if yyou were to respawn at the nav, and were it to happen over and over and over, then maybe. Otherwise it just is what it is.

* I'm in an unwanted ship, unaligned to any power carrying no cargo in transit in a high traffic, high security system...I'm interdicted by another player and destroyed quickly by Engineered weapons with special effects before having the opportunity to high wake out

This last one is weak. The issue you have here is not that you were killed, just that you were killed by engineered weapons. Take out the "Engineered" part and we're back to scenarios 1 & 2. Besides, every player has access to the engineers and, more importantly, every player has early access to the engineers that provide upgrades for defensive modules. And now that 3.0 has dropped, players have no excuse not to avail themselves of those upgrades and to completely max them out.

 

[Crank Larson]

Isn't this slightly disingenuous...we've all been attacked by NPCs with NO warning...
But how many have been attacked by NPCs with no warning when not wanted, carrying a bounty, aligned to a powerplay faction, running a mission or carrying cargo?

What are you doing in game if you are not doing any of those things?! Your question is more disingenuous than my answer.

 

[jasonbirder]

shooting other players isnt griefing, it is the game

Why would you shoot a player who wasn't carrying Cargo (Piracy) carrying a bounty (Bounty Hunting) aligned to another faction (Powerplay) or a member of an opposed Player Faction?
What part of the game is that?

 

[Crank Larson]

Why would you shoot a player who wasn't carrying Cargo (Piracy) carrying a bounty (Bounty Hunting) aligned to another faction (Powerplay) or a member of an opposed Player Faction?

Because they asked if I wanted to. And I said yes.

Though generally, I wouldn't. I don't expect others to act the same way as me, though.

What part of the game is that?

The part where you encounter someone else with different ideas to your own...

 

[jasonbirder]

What are you doing in game if you are not doing any of those things?! Your question is more disingenuous than my answer

Relocating between systems...sightseeing, investigating lore related systems/sights maybe

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Why would you shoot a player who wasn't carrying Cargo (Piracy) carrying a bounty (Bounty Hunting) aligned to another faction (Powerplay) or a member of an opposed Player Faction?
What part of the game is that?

Driving people out of your space is a good reason.

 

[StiTch]

Why would you shoot a player who wasn't carrying Cargo (Piracy) carrying a bounty (Bounty Hunting) aligned to another faction (Powerplay) or a member of an opposed Player Faction?
What part of the game is that?

It's a part you don't like. However, it is a part, and very intentional:
https://www.elitedangerous.com/en/gameplay/

"...or just hunt other CMDRs"

It is not just allowed but advertised. What is NOT accepted, and is "true" griefing per se, is harassment - e.g. bullying or continually harassing another player for out-of-game motivations.

"Blaze your own trail" applies to CMDRs that just like watching things explode every bit as much as players that enjoy mindless hauling. If you don't like that, you know where the Solo Mode button is.

 

[Eldragon]

This last one is weak. The issue you have here is not that you were killed, just that you were killed by engineered weapons. Take out the "Engineered" part and we're back to scenarios 1 & 2. Besides, every player has access to the engineers and, more importantly, every player has early access to the engineers that provide upgrades for defensive modules. And now that 3.0 has dropped, players have no excuse not to avail themselves of those upgrades and to completely max them out.

I think you are really underestimating the grind wall engineers requires; then powerplay modules are time gated as well.

On top of all that, the game does not offer a good means of practicing PVP in a consensual environment. Fighting NPCs is nothing like fighting players. Partially due to AI weaknesses, partially due to engineering metagame. So the PVP Murderman is going to get a lot more experience at killing than your average player.

A G5 Engineered ship versus an unengineered ship is baby seal clubbing. A G5 Engineered ship versus a G1-2 ship is is puppy kicking. After G3 it turns into a contest.

If FDev wants Elite to be dangerous fine, but telling people to "Engineer or Get Out" is going to cause people to cry about the engineer grind, or stick to solo/private mode. Which is a shame, this game shines when players work together.

 

[jasonbirder]

The part where you encounter someone else with different ideas to your own...

Ahh yes, emergent gameplay of course...

 

[Crank Larson]

On top of all that, the game does not offer a good means of practicing PVP in a consensual environment.

Yes, it does. There's a whole arena dedicated to just that.

Ahh yes, emergent gameplay of course...

Well, you can obviously call it what you like. I just put it down to meeting other people...

 

[Eldragon]

Yes, it does. There's a whole arena dedicated to just that.

Lol.

 

[Jukelo]

The station didn't attack them (outside the no fire zone?) but the NPC police did and were promptly slaughtered. Besides, if things got too rough for the campers, they would just low wake out and come back 2 minutes later all good.

Whether the station fights back isn't dependent on the no fire zone. If you shoot anything, even a wanted ship inside the NFZ of a policed station you'll get a fine (for putting the station and traffic around it in danger) but as the target is wanted the station wont return fire on you. In the same vein, shooting at a clean target outside (or from outside) the no fire zone is still a crime in policed space, and the station will return fire. If it did not, that was a bug or some form of exploit (at some point there were issues with torps and SLFs around stations, it could also be one of the ships in the wind taking the aggro for the rest at the very edge of the station's lethal range).

Thanks for proving my point that all this git gud advice is crap. The only real way to avoid getting killed by a PvP ship is to fly a PvP ship.

Keep in mind you brought up the absolute worst case scenario: that is sitting deep inside the mass lock zone of a CG station, in one of the least survivable ships in the game, with a wing of big ships waiting for you outside and no wing of your own. All the git gud guides in the world can't help you here. At this point you can't realy make the determination that you need a PvP ship to survive either considering you're stacking the odds against you to such an extent.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

I think you are really underestimating the grind wall engineers requires; then powerplay modules are time gated as well.

On top of all that, the game does not offer a good means of practicing PVP in a consensual environment. Fighting NPCs is nothing like fighting players. Partially due to AI weaknesses, partially due to engineering metagame. So the PVP Murderman is going to get a lot more experience at killing than your average player.

A G5 Engineered ship versus an unengineered ship is baby seal clubbing. A G5 Engineered ship versus a G1-2 ship is is puppy kicking. After G3 it turns into a contest.

If FDev wants Elite to be dangerous fine, but telling people to "Engineer or Get Out" is going to cause people to cry about the engineer grind, or stick to solo/private mode. Which is a shame, this game shines when players work together.

Four engineers. Four engineers for...

G5 Distributor
G5 Shields
G3 Boosters
G5 Armor

Dweller - 5 Black Markets
Cheung - 50 Markets
Blaster - 15 bounty vouchers
Jene - 500 Ore

No permits... no reps... no ranks.

I'm not saying everyone has to be capable offensively. Yes, that takes time. I'm saying it's well within every player's grasp to be capable defensively. Almost as if FD designed it the way

 

[Truesilver]

You wouldn't describe
* I'm in an unwanted ship, unaligned to any power carrying no cargo leaving a station in High Security System...I'm attacked by another Player on leaving the slot
* I'm in an unwanted ship, unaligned to any power carrying no cargo at a Navigation Beacon...I'm rammed by another player with no warning
* I'm in an unwanted ship, unaligned to any power carrying no cargo in transit in a high traffic, high security system...I'm interdicted by another player and destroyed quickly by Engineered weapons with special effects before having the opportunity to high wake out
As griefing?

You're describing 'murder'. Perhaps in the case of a ship piloted by a member of the Pilots Federation, equipped with an infallible escape pod, more accurately 'property destruction' ... unless they have an NPC SLF pilot on board, in which case at present it's definitely murder.

But either way, as others have said, it's not 'griefing' unless targeted at the individual, persistent against the individual, or both.

Why would you shoot a player who wasn't carrying Cargo (Piracy) carrying a bounty (Bounty Hunting) aligned to another faction (Powerplay) or a member of an opposed Player Faction?

I would not shoot that player.

However I presume the motivation of those that do so is ... 'entertainment'.

Perhaps the one motivation that everyone who logs in, shares?

 

[Lyrae Cursorius]

I don't usually take part in these discussions. But that's definitely a problem in "PvP" communities. I've been playing World of Warcraft for over 13 years on a pvp server. Ganking is pvp. Non-consensual pvp is STILL pvp. Everything Sandro said is correct in ANY pvp game. Watch your surroundings. Know where your enemies are. Know what your enemies are doing. The difference in this game is that there are no "sides." Therefore, you have to be aware of what every single player is doing around you.

Does it suck for a new player? Absolutely. But we all made it through it didn't we?

Or, to quote Dark Souls: "This isn't about death. [...] This is about what you learn from death."

 

[Eldragon]

Four engineers. Four engineers for...

G5 Distributor
G5 Shields
G3 Boosters
G5 Armor

Dweller - 5 Black Markets
Cheung - 50 Markets
Blaster - 15 bounty vouchers
Jene - 500 Ore

No permits... no reps... no ranks.

I'm not saying everyone has to be capable offensively. Yes, that takes time. I'm saying it's well within every player's grasp to be capable defensively. Almost as if FD designed it the way

You missed Palin and the Dirty Drive 5. If someone wants to be defensive and run away, being fast is kind of a requirement.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

Why would you shoot a player who wasn't carrying Cargo (Piracy) carrying a bounty (Bounty Hunting) aligned to another faction (Powerplay) or a member of an opposed Player Faction?
What part of the game is that?

Because I can

 

[Suvi Anwar]

wow. Just, wow.

The number of CMDRs in this thread that deserve the following award is just amazing.

Spoiler

It's pretty obvious that the players in the OP are not veteran players who know everything there is to know about dealing with the roadrash known as Humanity.
It took me 3 or 4 deaths to lose my naivety when I first started playing, Now I just avoid the roadrash by playing in Mobius.

Many of the comments coming from some of the usual suspects appear to be nothing more than taunting. I suppose it would be a waste of time and energy to ask supposed adults to act like adults? Indeed...

 

[Deleted member 115407]

You missed Palin and the Dirty Drive 5. If someone wants to be defensive and run away, being fast is kind of a requirement.

If you need them Farseer will get you DD3s. DD3s will be fine.

 

[sovapid]

Besides, every player has access to the engineers and, more importantly, every player has early access to the engineers that provide upgrades for defensive modules. And now that 3.0 has dropped, players have no excuse not to avail themselves of those upgrades and to completely max them out.

Well, except for non-Horizons players. RIP those poor guys and gals.