Newcomer / Intro Instant death in 3.0

[Mad Parrot]

can you please list all the important parameters?

1. whats minor faction are you taking the mission from
2. whats are the BGS statuses involved
3. rank of the mission, payout
4. did your own combat rank change in the meantime?
etc...

I'm taking the mission from Lembava Gold State Industries
I went to 23 Arietis 2, currently boom. My state is cordial with the locals.
The mission rank was Pioneer, payout 627696 CR. The task was to collect 4 commercial canisters.
My ship was an Alliance Chieftain, 5A shields, 4A shield cell bank.
I was effectively killed about two seconds after "you are under attack" by a swarm of ships. My shields went down almost instantly from multiple hits.
My combat rank did not change; it's mostly harmless. My explorer rank is Pioneer, same as the mission.

Edited to add: I went back and tried again (like an idiot....). As soon as I locked onto the first canister and launched a collection limpet, 4 red triangles appeared and fired upon me. As soon as they appeared I started to run and barely got away in a badly damaged ship with no shields. Now one ship I'd take on... but four?!

 

[Deleted member 115407]

I'm taking the mission from Lembava Gold State Industries
I went to 23 Arietis 2, currently boom. My state is cordial with the locals.
The mission rank was Pioneer, payout 627696 CR. The task was to collect 4 commercial canisters.
My ship was an Alliance Chieftain, 5A shields, 4A shield cell bank.
I was effectively killed about two seconds after "you are under attack" by a swarm of ships. My shields went down almost instantly from multiple hits.
My combat rank did not change; it's mostly harmless. My explorer rank is Pioneer, same as the mission.

Edited to add: I went back and tried again (like an idiot....). As soon as I locked onto the first canister and launched a collection limpet, 4 red triangles appeared and fired upon me. As soon as they appeared I started to run and barely got away in a badly damaged ship with no shields. Now one ship I'd take on... but four?!

Again, it's an ambush scenario.

If your 5A shield is going down almost instantly, then you aren't running full pips to shields. You should be.

NPCs love gimbals and turrets. Make sure you pop chaff as soon as they start shooting. And make use of that SCB. What are your utilities? Try 2 x A Boosters, 1 Chaff, and 2 Heat sink (pop it with the SCB).

Keep practicing. If I could do it in a Cobra Mk IV with a 4A Shield and no engineering, you can do it in a Chieftan with 5A shields, a bank, and some chaff.

Practice target-popping those limpets. As soon as you've collected wake out. High wake if you have to, you won't be mass-locked.

Come on, OP. You can do it.

 

[Ka_Tor]

i use my Python with a modest 717MJ shield for salvaging black box missions. Current tactic used was just staying in place while my limpets collected the targeted salvage while simultaneously taking incoming fire from uninvited guests. Even though the screen display shook and my analog controller vibrated vigorously, i never came close to any real danger and never had to use a SCB. FSD activated the moment the last limpet dropped off it's booty.

Your case sounds like the salvaged missions may have been beefed up a bit. Looking forward to testing it out.

 

[Mad Parrot]

Again, it's an ambush scenario.

If your 5A shield is going down almost instantly, then you aren't running full pips to shields. You should be.

NPCs love gimbals and turrets. Make sure you pop chaff as soon as they start shooting. And make use of that SCB. What are your utilities? Try 2 x A Boosters, 1 Chaff, and 2 Heat sink (pop it with the SCB).

Keep practicing. If I could do it in a Cobra Mk IV with a 4A Shield and no engineering, you can do it in a Chieftan with 5A shields, a bank, and some chaff.

Practice target-popping those limpets. As soon as you've collected wake out. High wake if you have to, you won't be mass-locked.

Come on, OP. You can do it.

I did have 4 pips to shields, popped chaff the instant they appeared and still the shields fell in less than 2 seconds. So yes, the salvage missions have been beefed up "a bit..." !!

 

[Deleted member 115407]

I did have 4 pips to shields, popped chaff the instant they appeared and still the shields fell in less than 2 seconds. So yes, the salvage missions have been beefed up "a bit..." !!

Crazy. I'll have to test some

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

chieftain is a new COMBAT focused ship.
you know, npcs are partially generated based on what ship you have. (dunno for sure regarding missions, but in general thats the consens)

this may not be perfectly balanced yet.

 

[Mad Parrot]

chieftain is a new COMBAT focused ship.
you know, npcs are partially generated based on what ship you have. (dunno for sure regarding missions, but in general thats the consens)

this may not be perfectly balanced yet.

I've tried the missions using a Sidewinder, Cobra III and Asp Explorer. In each case I got attacked (and usually killed) very quickly.

 

[Dallas Sukerkin]

I am experiencing the same problem ... within fifteen seconds of popping the cargo scoop I am reduced to floating splinters of radioactive debris by wings of four ships ... even trying to run doesn't help (I escaped once out of six or seven of these that I tried (that's just escaped, not succeeded )).

I know some of the hardcore e-peen wavers will be overjoyed with the difficulty ramp-up but players like me (who are not L33t p1lotz and who actually work for a living rather than play Elite 24/7) are likely just going to walk away and find a game where there is fun rather than frustration and annoyance to be found.

Hopefully there will be a meaningful response by the Dev team on this ... but given that they released it as it is (seemingly not properly play tested) I fear it would be unwise to hold my breath.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

I know some of the hardcore e-peen wavers will be overjoyed with the difficulty ramp-up but players like me (who are not L33t p1lotz and who actually work for a living rather than play Elite 24/7) are likely just going to walk away and find a game where there is fun rather than frustration and annoyance to be found.

Are those players here, in the thread above? I'm sure those "L33T p1lotz who don't work for a living and play Elite 24/7" could just as easily over-generalize you as a whiney carebear who is incapable of basic survival. That is if those folks were here in this thread, of course.

Now that that's been said.

Perhaps one of the two of you (Dallas and OP) should post a video for us so we can make an assessment of exactly what is happening and if we see anything that looks like a bug. It's very difficult to make useful assessments from second-hand verbal accounts, especially when it comes to mechanics that involve weapons, shields, and pip management.

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

I've tried the missions using a Sidewinder, Cobra III and Asp Explorer. In each case I got attacked (and usually killed) very quickly.

ok, then thats out of the way
maybe i will try one too when i come back with the material for my GGaus that is actually a Railgun...

 

[Dallas Sukerkin]

:chuckles: Exactly the sort of reply that I expected. It's almost as if there is no other mode of interacting on internet fora :back of hand to forehead in the fashion of a fainting damsel from days gone by:.

In my freely admitted uselessness, I sincerely bow before your Elite-ness. Thank you for your time and the thoughts behind your words; I am well aware that I belong in the Sandpit with the rest of the n00bz and, indeed, do not yet even know enough to know what I don't know.

As an addendum, please note that it isn't just the two of us. Having seen other such complaints that match my own, horrifying, experience, I was merely backing up the first-person-report of the OP so that he knows that he is not alone in facing a dramatic change in difficulty from routine to impossible. As noted even instantly running with shields at max garners you nought as you are dead before the Frameshift drive counter expires. Others report that adding Chaff in to the defensive mix doesn't help in the escape either.

I'll submit a bug report and see what falls out of the tree.

Meantime, I shall try an experiment and take a 'new' salvage mission and see if it is a 'template' mix-up brought about because the missions I am being decimated on were in my list before the update.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

In my freely admitted uselessness, I sincerely bow before your Elite-ness. Thank you for your time and the thoughts behind your words

Alright, then. Now we can talk as long as you're bending the knee. And you're welcome!

Seriously, you're the one who's on a high horse here. I'm trying to help OP by asking questions, offering advice, and encouraging him. I suggested posting a video because, as the old adage goes, a picture is worth a thousand words.

It's entirely possible that there is some bug that is causing the NPCs in these instances to be extremely overpowered. If that is so, it would be great to help identify it. It's also possible that the "dead in 2 seconds" scenarios are not as described, and are instead the result of a hazy, frustrated memory and something going wrong on the users' end. Either way, asking for more and more information is the only way we're going to get to the bottom of it.

 

[Bartacus]

Hey guys, I'm noticing the exact same thing, but ONLY since the Beyond update. Prior to that, I'd NEVER get outright attacked without someone taunting me with a message like "your previous employer has a message: die" or something similar. I AM a complete noob, and am utterly useless in combat. I can admit this, but Beyond REALLY altered something here. Salvage missions are now impossible for me in my Viper MK4. I can *barely* escape sometimes, but I die within 20 seconds if I don't escape. Was there any notes in the Beyond change log about more random NPC attacks? They used to scan me, and if cargo hold was empty, they'd leave me alone. Now it's death without even a taunt first. I'm not wanted, good rep with federation and empire, etc. Not sure what's causing this, other than a Beyond change to make salvage WAY harder. It's rather disheartening. 6 murders against an UN-engineered Viper MK4, and usually there's at *least* a FDR and 5 others, sometimes even a 'Conda.

I wonder if Frontier nerfed salvage missions on purpose. That would be odd, since they aren't exactly an exploitable money-maker.

 

[Dallas Sukerkin]

Either way, asking for more and more information is the only way we're going to get to the bottom of it.

Righty ho ... tried a 'new' salvage mission and all went as normal. For a moment thought that that was it then - just clear the mission log of ones I picked up before the update and all will be well.

Tried another new one (ranked for Mostly Harmless) ... long trip out to Maher Prime ... found the salvage and dropped out of Frameshift ... opened cargo scoop ... headed for the first Black Box ... a Wing swooped in, stripped my shields instantly, and, before the countdown for my Drive was over, had hit me with all sorts of weaponry (including missiles that introduced some sort of Hazardous Substance inside my ship) ... boom!

So it seems things are such that a 'casual' like me just can't cope with even a salvage run.

 

[777Driver]

Righty ho ... tried a 'new' salvage mission and all went as normal. For a moment thought that that was it then - just clear the mission log of ones I picked up before the update and all will be well.

Tried another new one (ranked for Mostly Harmless) ... long trip out to Maher Prime ... found the salvage and dropped out of Frameshift ... opened cargo scoop ... headed for the first Black Box ... a Wing swooped in, stripped my shields instantly, and, before the countdown for my Drive was over, had hit me with all sorts of weaponry (including missiles that introduced some sort of Hazardous Substance inside my ship) ... boom!

So it seems things are such that a 'casual' like me just can't cope with even a salvage run.

Would be good to see a video of what is happening. These 'striped my shields in seconds' stories normally turn out to be pretty clear cut.

 

[Gizoux]

I don't do well in single combat against multiple opponents but the mission I took was rated Surveyor and gave me a Cobra and a Vulture as opponents each time. Luckily for me there were other boats in the system to help. I would consider that fair enough.

 

[Dallas Sukerkin]

If someone would care to tell me how to do that, I'd be glad to oblige - at the moment I've had enough of being blown up and seeing my Next Ship fund that it's taken me two months to build up being whittled away. If this were a toaster I had bought, would be demanding my money back from the manufacturer.

For now I shall go back to playing games that don't make my life more miserable than it needs to be and keep my eye on the news for a 'fix'. If the fix is "Learn to Play" then I guess I am out of luck, as the reason I settled on salvage as a way of earning in-game credits is that it meant I didn't have to fight a whole lot and if I got attacked then running away worked perfectly fine :lol:. Maybe mining or trading instead?

One last point ... just tried a 'stealth' approach of sitting there in Silent Running before the Wing shows up - no difference in that they detected me within seconds and opened fire and that was it. I had hoped they would fly by and I could get on with it but it was not to be.

 

[777Driver]

If someone would care to tell me how to do that, I'd be glad to oblige - at the moment I've had enough of being blown up and seeing my Next Ship fund that it's taken me two months to build up being whittled away. If this were a toaster I had bought, would be demanding my money back from the manufacturer.

For now I shall go back to playing games that don't make my life more miserable than it needs to be and keep my eye on the news for a 'fix'. If the fix is "Learn to Play" then I guess I am out of luck, as the reason I settled on salvage as a way of earning in-game credits is that it meant I didn't have to fight a whole lot and if I got attacked then running away worked perfectly fine :lol:. Maybe mining or trading instead?

If you wanna wing up let me know (PM me) I could hold back and check out the situation. Kinda hard to believe it is bad as you say. Only way to find out is to see a video, or be there in person and try and help if it goes south. Are you on PC?

Bottom line is this, they shouldn't be dumbing down the AI and missions any further, they already held back NPC's to help out new players. If these missions require some tactics and thinking, then that is a good thing, so far all I am hearing is guy's dropping out, going straight for the cargo.

 

[Bartacus]

If you wanna wing up let me know (PM me) I could hold back and check out the situation. Kinda hard to believe it is bad as you say. Only way to find out is to see a video, or be there in person and try and help if it goes south. Are you on PC?

Bottom line is this, they shouldn't be dumbing down the AI and missions any further, they already held back NPC's to help out new players. If these missions require some tactics and thinking, then that is a good thing, so far all I am hearing is guy's dropping out, going straight for the cargo.

I'm finding it REALLY that bad, and that's coming from a noob who's bread and butter has been these salvage missions! BUT I did notice ONE thing that may or may not help the OP: the mission I was having these attack issues with was a WARTIME black box salvage mission. The rare artwork salvage missions still seem to be ok. I've read the Beyond change log (twice) and see no mention of them changing these missions. I abandoned the wartime black box salvage mission that was giving me the headache, after FIVE attempts. Twice I got destroyed before I could enable the FSD, and I escaped the other 3 times (thanks to A rated boost and a shield booster), but with very little hull left (3% in one). Something appears to have changed BIG time, with no mention in the change log. It really does make for a frustrating time, especially for us chickens who stink at combat.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Would be good to see a video of what is happening. These 'striped my shields in seconds' stories normally turn out to be pretty clear cut.

Hazardous substance? Caustic missiles? This is getting juicy. I definitely want to see some video now!

I'll try to run some in an in modded ship and see if I get the same result.