nuff said. outside pvp, ship balance is only relevant for some degrees of ocd.
Ship Balance - why do you care?
- Thread starter JohnRoberts
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nuff said. outside pvp, ship balance is only relevant for some degrees of ocd.
"all ships are of some use to some not insignificant number of players" now there's a sentence!
Yes, its probably quirky.
What I mean:
If we talk about balance, lets think about how to measure it.
How to measure balance in a complex game, which is not only about combat between two(or more) parties?
For me the easiest is to count how many players are using a particular ship?
Are the numbers equally distributed? Then we have perfect balance.
If not, what can we do to the ships which are less used to make them more attractive?
This would be of benefit for all and would not harm anybody's play style.
Still too quirky? Still to much PvP implied?
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I like this perspective of "Balance" meaning "Diversity".
That's why I liked it. I got your meaning.
There's no such thing as too quirky in my book
OP: people asking for balance of a feature or mechanic that does not affect them are doing it to validate their own existence. It's unfortunate, and leads to all sorts of sillyness. The current PC movement for instance, is a reflection of this trait. If you've ever watched the film Donnie Darko, we're talking about the sort of temperament excuded by the Mum who fronts that ridiculous girl group "Sparkle Motion". "I seriously doubt your commitment to Elite: Dangerous!".
Popularity can be a good initial estimator of balance, but popularity also factors in all sorts of meta variables that are nothing to do with balance that would have to be accounted for. For example, we will likely always see more Cobras than what balance would dictate due to their iconic nature. Other ships might end up being more or less popular than their power would suggest because of their appearance, engine sound, cockpit or RP reasons.
For myself it's less about balance and more about consistency of the fleet design. For the most part the ships in Elite are well balanced against each other, they all have their pros and cons, their uses. But there are a few outliers which make no sense at all. The Asp Scout is the least flown ship for example, and for good reasons.
With regards to the Anaconda, it's design does not fit in with the rest of the ships. It's hull mass is far too low for what it is, and this is the root of what breaks it with regards to consistency. The ship is too good, it excels in nearly every aspect of the game, because of this more people fly it than any other ship. It makes the ships that ARE balanced well underwhelming by comparison.
That is why I care. A balanced fleet equals a wide variety of ships chosen for roles, and an OP ship equals a lot of other ships going ignored. Why add any more ships to the game if they'll never be able to compete with the one OP ship?
With regards to the Anaconda, it's design does not fit in with the rest of the ships. It's hull mass is far too low for what it is, and this is the root of what breaks it with regards to consistency. The ship is too good, it excels in nearly every aspect of the game, because of this more people fly it than any other ship. It makes the ships that ARE balanced well underwhelming by comparison.
That is why I care. A balanced fleet equals a wide variety of ships chosen for roles, and an OP ship equals a lot of other ships going ignored. Why add any more ships to the game if they'll never be able to compete with the one OP ship?
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Did you read the replies? I'm sure what you say is true of some people, but I don't accept that this is a community of interfering busybodies intent on ruining other people's fun.
I see what your are getting at but I think there is an additional step - the combat loadout is better at combat, but currently by too much compared to the trader. And vice versa. Bring them closer (reduce the effect of defensive hitpoint buffing modules) to get better PvP interactions. The Pirate & trader are roughly on a par, they both have to fit non-defensive modules for their goal. The bounty hunter, CZ/PvP combat ship has too much of an advantage currently. It's right that they should have the upper hand, but not by so much imo.
Having read all of the posts so far it is obvious to me that no-one has defined exactly what they mean by "balance", or at least not a definition that is acceptable to everyone else.
I submit that "balance" is different for each player and therefore meaningless to others.
However, to answer the OP. I don't. Care, that is.
I submit that "balance" is different for each player and therefore meaningless to others.
However, to answer the OP. I don't. Care, that is.
Ship "balance" is part preference, but mostly it only comes into play for PVP. These arguments ALWAYS come up in games that mix both PVE and PVP. They are never resolved.
I don’t want balanced ships. I want ships that haul massive amounts of cargo but are have lousy jump range for long distance. I want ships that have great jump range but less cargo capacity.
Fdev gave me what I wanted when they fixed the Type 9 cargo capacity.
I want ships to be specialized to a specific task and ships that are generally okay at everything. I want to be able to make those choices. The top dps ship should not also be the top tank or the top cargo hauler or the longest jump range or the most elegant.
Please keep the diversity. It makes the game more interesting.
Fdev gave me what I wanted when they fixed the Type 9 cargo capacity.
I want ships to be specialized to a specific task and ships that are generally okay at everything. I want to be able to make those choices. The top dps ship should not also be the top tank or the top cargo hauler or the longest jump range or the most elegant.
Please keep the diversity. It makes the game more interesting.
go ask game company with balancing experience then. Its complex? Yes. Each game has different options? Yes.
There is no-one in this forum to tell you how to balance this game, because then he must know all statistics and numbers in game and have plenty of information about xyz modifications.
But, its pretty obvious some ships are out of line. You dont need to know all information, but you can see it. And then, devs should come in and fix it.
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aka balanced ships
The white army is OP, though.
Why? Why is it necessary to have balanced ships? Besides, the ships may be balanced as far as FDev is concerned. We don't know what their definition is either. What you deem to be "out of balance" may not be to anyone else including FDev.
If ship builds and engineers were sidegrades rather than upgrades I'd agree, but FD didn't go down that road, unfortunately.
So basically, you want balanced ships where all the advantages are countered by disadvantages? Balanced doesn't mean everything is the same, what it means is that everything has the same potential output - even if the method by which it expresses the output is different.
[haha] Coffee everywhere...
...and exactly the way I tend to think, too!
Lots of reasons. Ferinstance, I don't have a single 'Conda, even 'though I could afford a fleet of them and have about 1.3billion credits worth of ships scattered around the bubble. The 'Conda is magnificent, enjoy it if you like, fly something else with a wee bit more character if you don't.
Gotta disagree about the logic there, mate. Irl there are any number of amazing vehicles and tools that are just head and shoulders above their competitors, for no particular reason- or, perhaps, a raft of them.
Are you a Brit? Take the iconic British Merlin engined fighters of WW2. There's a world of difference between Hurricanes, Spitfires, Kittyhawks and Mustangs, even although they look almost identical on paper- three ton aluminium prop planes sharing the same engine. How about swords? We think we know what the secret of a Damascus blade was today, but those swords were lighter, sharper and stronger than anything forged before the late 20th century. Or firearms? An Armalite is lighter, longer ranged and more accurate than a Kalashnikov, but most people would be hard pressed to come up with a reason for why that happens to be.
From an immersion point of view I expect- heck, I absolutely demand- some things in game to have that same inexplicable 'x factor'. It can be justified or rationalised by factors not presented to the player, such as more expensive materials and construction methods. I imagine Lakons to be the equivalent of tramp steamers- all riveted boiler plate and coal bunkers- where Faulcon deLacy build welded, turbine powered motor yachts. Ok, cheesy metaphor, but utilitarian kit is often very different to more expensive alternatives.
Ain't that the truth!
Look guys, the Anaconda is available to anyone with the credits to buy one. If you think that it's the best ship in the game, as op as a main battle tank at the Battle of Meggido, you're free to fly one. If you refuse because it's too op, then that's fine as well. There are loads of other ships to chose. Let's not nerf all the things just because you don't agree with some design choices. There'll always be a 'best' ship, try not to get hung up on it.
I don't see any other way of looking at it. Elite is not a combat game. It's a game with different occupations which take different activities.
The questions I ask myself when buying/outfitting all have to do with balance. I just set off on a 25KLY trip ... before that I sat at Jameson considering the options.
Do I take the Conda? It has excellent range, but poor cockpit visibility and poor SC handling. Nah.
The Asp? Best all around exploration ship going by the numbers, but it's looks will never sit well with me. Nah.
The T-6? Has the best looks in the game (yes it does!) and it (shut up! yes it does!) has decent cockpit visibility and adequate range. Hmmmm
Hmm ...I heard something about the T-7. Lets see what's what. Excellent visibility, adequate range, and it's blokish looks worries the T-6. T-7 it is.
These are all balancing questions. Weighing the good vs the bad. And when you're outfitting to go mining or smuggling or trading or combat, you have other requirements. Even depends upon the mood you're in.
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