Hardware & Technical Dell 990 Optiplex MT for EDH

[D.D.Hariman]

Just a heads up for those looking to stay away from WIN 10 and be able to do EDH on a budget.

I get nothing from this..

I just placed an order for one of these >>>> https://www.discountelectronics.com...iToZH8H-YQwkbXm5lgyAkTu8YFxX4uUIaAr6vEALw_wcB <<<

Out of the box with a stock power supply it will run a GTX 960 which would put it at 90% of recommended for Elite Dangerous Horizons.

But the case is big enough for a bigger PSU and GPU so you should be able to get to 100% no problem.

The same place has a bunch of the 990 in lesser versions of Win7.

 

[Caramel Clown]

Can't you just buy win7 anymore?

 

[Shadowdancer]

Be aware of two things:

① Windows 7 is not receiving the complete set of security updates any more at this point; if you intend to connect any machine still running it to the Internet, you must follow security bulletins and take measures beyond just installing updates, like manually disabling services, changing configurations, making damn sure some basic firewall block rules are in force, or installing update packages that are not part of automatic updates.

② Those office cases suck HARD at heat management! I've had them painfully hot to the touch (no, that's not an exaggeration!) after ten minutes of running not particularly demanding games. You cannot expect that system to keep within safe temperature limits when you load it for extended periods of time, they're made for the small spike in CPU temperature when you're opening an especially funky Excel spreadsheet and that's about it. If you want to use that stuff for games, transplant it into a new case (assuming you can even do that and Dell haven't gone ahead and used custom form factor everything).

 

[Caramel Clown]

Be aware of two things:

① Windows 7 is not receiving the complete set of security updates any more at this point; if you intend to connect any machine still running it to the Internet, you must follow security bulletins and take measures beyond just installing updates, like manually disabling services, changing configurations, making damn sure some basic firewall block rules are in force, or installing update packages that are not part of automatic updates.

② Those office cases suck HARD at heat management! I've had them painfully hot to the touch (no, that's not an exaggeration!) after ten minutes of running not particularly demanding games. You cannot expect that system to keep within safe temperature limits when you load it for extended periods of time, they're made for the small spike in CPU temperature when you're opening an especially funky Excel spreadsheet and that's about it. If you want to use that stuff for games, transplant it into a new case (assuming you can even do that and Dell haven't gone ahead and used custom form factor everything).

To add to this. Many of those may come with motherboards incapable of supporting even hardware mounted on it from manufacturer running under significant load. It's not rare to see downclocked parts from the factory. Just looking at specs...even for that dirt cheap it's a bunch of not very good parts. Slow memory, not exactly gaming grade CPU, and trust me - motherboard in this will be the cheapest pile of poopoo you could imagine. There is absolutely no way you can take advantage of 960 in that.

 

[Caramel Clown]

So, with 1Tb drive and 8Gb of SLOW DDR3 RAM it's 487.
For roughly same money you could put together this, and add 960 to that. It's 530 in CAD, because that's what it gives me by default here in Canada Just convert it to USD and compare, it's actually cheaper than that dumb dell box. It doesn't include win7, but it shouldn't be a problem finding one for cheap.
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/xQFdCb

 

[MickyG1982]

To add to this. Many of those may come with motherboards incapable of supporting even hardware mounted on it from manufacturer running under significant load. It's not rare to see downclocked parts from the factory. Just looking at specs...even for that dirt cheap it's a bunch of not very good parts. Slow memory, not exactly gaming grade CPU, and trust me - motherboard in this will be the cheapest pile of poopoo you could imagine. There is absolutely no way you can take advantage of 960 in that.

Some even go as far as having proprietary power connections for the PSU meaning that the only replacement is another dell one...

 

[Caramel Clown]

I've just glanced over specs for that i7 CPU, and it says PCIe 2.0 only...that means it won't even run anything like 960 at it's full speed, which requires PCIe 3.0 x16 lol. Forget about it

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I've just glanced over specs for that i7 CPU, and it says PCIe 2.0 only...that means it won't even run anything like 960 at it's full speed, which requires PCIe 3.0 x16 lol. Forget about it

I have a an i5 2500k so the best speeds i can get is at PCIe 2.0. For a 960 it is fine and the difference in speed will be like 1 fps. Even if I put in a 1080ti in my machine it still doesn't max out PCIe2 x16. I will lose 1-2fps and thats it.

 

[Caramel Clown]

I have a an i5 2500k so the best speeds i can get is at PCIe 2.0. For a 960 it is fine and the difference in speed will be like 1 fps. Even if I put in a 1080ti in my machine it still doesn't max out PCIe2 x16. I will lose 1-2fps and thats it.

It doesn't max out because 2500k is a bottleneck in this case You can max out 2.0, especially with something as ridiculous as 1080ti.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

It doesn't max out because 2500k is a bottleneck in this case You can max out 2.0, especially with something as ridiculous as 1080ti.

No the 1080ti still doesn't max out PCIe 2.0 yet. The next set of GPU's may do though.

While my CPU does mean I lose some FPS it has nothing to do with PCIe 3.0.

Look at these articles:

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2773-intel-i5-2500k-revisit-benchmark-for-2017/page-3

With an overclock my i5 2500k will out do an i5 3550k (not overclocked) which does use PCIe 3.0.


And if you look at the i7 2600k benchmarks you will see it does even better, especially when overclocked:

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2867-intel-i7-2600k-2017-benchmark-vs-7700k-1700-more/page-3

Here is something interesting for you. This is with a 1080 and not a 1080ti. The CPU will slow things down, sure but not with a 960/970 GPU. I doubt the CPU will bottleneck that at all or the use of PCIe 2.0 x 16.

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2488-pci-e-3-x8-vs-x16-performance-impact-on-gpus
PCIe 3.0 x 8 is slower then PCIe 2.0 x 16.

As you can see from this even the 1080 isn't bottlenecked by PCIe 2.0 x 16 and it is doubtful that a 1080ti is.

 

[Caramel Clown]

No the 1080ti still doesn't max out PCIe 2.0 yet. The next set of GPU's may do though.

While my CPU does mean I lose some FPS it has nothing to do with PCIe 3.0.

Look at these articles:

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2773-intel-i5-2500k-revisit-benchmark-for-2017/page-3

With an overclock my i5 2500k will out do an i5 3550k (not overclocked) which does use PCIe 3.0.


And if you look at the i7 2600k benchmarks you will see it does even better, especially when overclocked:

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2867-intel-i7-2600k-2017-benchmark-vs-7700k-1700-more/page-3

Here is something interesting for you. This is with a 1080 and not a 1080ti. The CPU will slow things down, sure but not with a 960/970 GPU. I doubt the CPU will bottleneck that at all or the use of PCIe 2.0 x 16.

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2488-pci-e-3-x8-vs-x16-performance-impact-on-gpus
PCIe 3.0 x 8 is slower then PCIe 2.0 x 16.

As you can see from this even the 1080 isn't bottlenecked by PCIe 2.0 x 16 and it is doubtful that a 1080ti is.

You can't overclock CPU from this Dell office box, it's not unlocked
Also, single core performance while important - not everything for gaming. Clock or not clock - 2500k is old.
Interestingly, I'm still on 2500k as well for at least few more weeks before new system is in place. It's clocked to 4.3Ghz, and even at that frequency it's pretty much a match for equally old GPU - 680. No amount of overclocking will help it to perform well with modern high power GPUs. 960 might be ok though, it's pretty old by now too.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

You can't overclock CPU from this Dell office box, it's not unlocked
Also, single core performance while important - not everything for gaming. Clock or not clock - 2500k is old.
Interestingly, I'm still on 2500k as well for at least few more weeks before new system is in place. It's clocked to 4.3Ghz, and even at that frequency it's pretty much a match for equally old GPU - 680. No amount of overclocking will help it to perform well with modern high power GPUs. 960 might be ok though, it's pretty old by now too.

That I do know. But the 960 should be fine with it. I have an AMD fury (which is far more powerful then the 960) and it doesn't seem to be bottlenecked with my i5 2500k at 4.2ghz. They are still very good processors. When not in VR, in space I get about 100-200 fps. In VR I still get 90fps (settings are a mixture of medium and high) most of the time.

I am also looking at getting a new system in, but I think I will wait for the new ryzen parts to come out. The Ryzen 2600 which should be here in april.

 

[Caramel Clown]

That I do know. But the 960 should be fine with it. I have an AMD fury (which is far more powerful then the 960) and it doesn't seem to be bottlenecked with my i5 2500k at 4.2ghz. They are still very good processors. When not in VR, in space I get about 100-200 fps. In VR I still get 90fps (settings are a mixture of medium and high) most of the time.

I am also looking at getting a new system in, but I think I will wait for the new ryzen parts to come out. The Ryzen 2600 which should be here in april.

There's a chance new gen of GPUs cam come out by then as well, at least from Nvidia. That's a rumor right now. It would make some sense though, 1080Ti is pretty much 1 year old by now. On Nvidia's timeline it's time for new GPU family.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

There's a chance new gen of GPUs cam come out by then as well, at least from Nvidia. That's a rumor right now. It would make some sense though, 1080Ti is pretty much 1 year old by now. On Nvidia's timeline it's time for new GPU family.

Yep, I have heard conflicting rumours. Some say Volta will be coming and others saying that nothing is coming till next year.

 

[D.D.Hariman]

Looks like some people didn't bother to go look at the specs.

Intel Quad Core i7-2600 3.4Ghz CPU (Turbo Boost up to 3.8Ghz)
4GB DDR3 Memory
160 SATA Drive

I will be having the OS cloned to a 1T drive in a few days.

Regarding the OS.. The looks like the Win10 Fanboys are hard at work putting out false info about WIN7.

"Mainstream support mainly refers to free phone and online support, as well as non-security updates, which is offered for five years after the release of an OS or two years after its successor hits the market. Microsoft won't end security updates for your Windows 7 PC until Jan. 14, 2020."

That said,, MS has been doing a lot of stuff that actually makes WIN 7 less secure by sending out "security updates" that actually put into WIN 7 all the same back doors that MS put into WIN10. Fortunately, there is a dedicated community out there watching what MS puts out and flagging the fake security updates.

The first thing I did when I got the machine was clean out the fake security updates and make a restore point. I have added a DVD writer and when the 1 T is in it I will make a complete System Image before I load anything else on it.

I have done some additional research and decided that I will be hunting for a GTX 1050 (75 watts) instead of the GTX 960 (120 Watts) When I talked to Dell about my 790 they told me the 265 WATT GOLD PSU (the same as in the 990) would carry the 120 watts no problem but that my 790 DT case wouldn't hold the GTX 960 so I put in a GTX 745 OEM card.


http://www.game-debate.com/games/in...ual+4GB&ram=8&checkSubmit=#systemrequirements


If I am hitting the RECOMMENDED SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS,, I am not sure why there is doubt that the game will be very playable for many, many years. VR makes me nauseous. Hopefully long enough that Frontier will release it on LINUX so I never have to run anything from MS with all it's back doors and forced updates.

 

[MickyG1982]

You would be better off hunting down the 1050Ti as opposed to the regular 1050 if you have the power to spare. it pretty much matches the 960 in most respects + has an extra 2Gb VRAM to play with, removing most of the LOD problems at 1080p.

It's worth noting that ED will max out 2GB VRAM on my GTX 960 on Ultra at 720p This means that you will have to make some significant compromises with the settings at 1080p on a vanilla 1050 that you wouldn't have to make with the 1050ti. The 1050Ti is also in the 75W category so if your PSU can run the vanilla card it will certainly run the Ti.

 

[D.D.Hariman]

You would be better off hunting down the 1050Ti as opposed to the regular 1050 if you have the power to spare. it pretty much matches the 960 in most respects + has an extra 2Gb VRAM to play with, removing most of the LOD problems at 1080p.

It's worth noting that ED will max out 2GB VRAM on my GTX 960 on Ultra at 720p This means that you will have to make some significant compromises with the settings at 1080p on a vanilla 1050 that you wouldn't have to make with the 1050ti. The 1050Ti is also in the 75W category so if your PSU can run the vanilla card it will certainly run the Ti.

I agree. I inadvertently left the ti off the 1050 in the post, but in the Game Debate analysis I used the 1050 ti with dual fans. I have even seen some of the 1050ti with some apparently extras but they appear to only be useful if you have some kind of super wham-o-dine monitor which I don't have. But, interestingly, some of those with the extra stuff are listed at lower prices than the ASUS 1050 ti dual I used in the analysis.

In any case, at present it looks like I am going to be able to put together a game machine that exceeds the EDH recommended specs for about $600.00 US since I got my 990 MT for an internet special of $215.00 US.

That will leave me with the 790 DT and the 745 OEM that I can replace my Dell Dimension E310 running Linux Mint (Give yourself a big laugh and look up the specs on that.) for general computing and my business stuff. Might even be able to hook it up to a decent display and have a home video system.

As for "compromise". I live in a rural area and I will always have to compromise simply because of available data speeds.

 

[Linkard]

I have a TV pc box . It's a HP/Compaq 8200 elite SFF with an I5 2400 I bought for peanuts .. I stuffed 16 gb ram and a 1050ti in it and removed all 12v gadgets from it like the CD/DVD burner and the 12v 3.5" drive .. replaced them with 2 2.5" 5v ssd's and pow.. It runs everything ..

 

[D.D.Hariman]

There a bunch of different versions of the 1050 so I started plugging them into the Game Debate analyzer and this one produced the best result.

ASUS GeForce GTX 1050 Ti DUAL 0TI-O4G OC Edition Graphics Card - 4 GB GDDR5 - 128-bit - 1341 MHz

Came in at about 115% of RECOMMENDED.

Game Debate doesn't have a way for me to put in the CPU TURBO to 3.8 so I don't know what that will do..

 

[Shadowdancer]

You would be better off hunting down the 1050Ti as opposed to the regular 1050 if you have the power to spare.

There is no power to spare. With the slightest permanent load on the GPU, the system will heat up, the PSU will derate, and then it will just shut down