Starting To Seriously Lose Faith

There is a lot left to be desired but there is also a lot good things in this game. When I keep thinking of uninstalling and putting my time to better use, I usually go to Alec's "Best of the Forum" thread and look at some stuff there. Usually this is enough to bring me back to still believe in this game. And that's quite an achievement after nearly three years of playing it.

Take this youtube that shows some of the beauty, right from Alec's recomendations. Since it's the last part of a series, maybe it's not helping depression, but it's really well made I think. So if you don't know Draven Darken yet, it's worth the time.

[video=youtube;OeQph34ygi8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1291&v=OeQph34ygi8[/video]
 
Progress bars and unlocks.
Scavenger hunting for mats where 1000 hours in game gives no real advantage over your first hour. PvP has some skills but the ground rules keep changing and changing.
Epic events are scripted bystander set pieces where you arrive a day late and a dollar short- a witness to the aftermath.
But people are still dedicated so FDev better come through.

I mean setting the station repair unlock so high? Making the mat. Trader Bingo board ratios so unfavourable-1200 to 1?
Scouring the planets surface in a buggy looking for a mineral that appears 1.5% of the time randomly. Where was that in the Kickstarter?
 
OP... I will hold off on the fact that you haven't actually said very much of anything specific regarding faults / suggestions in your post, and if I were a Dev I'd likely not find it particularly useful.

I've been around here since day one and I don't even dare to look at how many hours I've logged! I've been through times where I wondered where the game was going... back in the day it seemed like a sim. Then consoles got added and it seemed to shift to cater for a more pew pew style audience (no criticism intended), but failed to really deliver what a modern generation expect of a game (I'm old).

We had things like power play which satisfied the board game enthusiasts amongst us (not me) but again wasn't done as well as it could've been.

CQC was a great idea that was poorly implemented and multi crew lacks so much depth that it feels like they actually don't care much about it over in Cambridge. It is a mechanic, not a finished product. The saddest remark I ever heard was that they won't add to it if it isn't very popular to start with! Build a half completed mechanic then abandon it because no one likes it is a strange way to implement new features! Anyway...

I could go on ... over the four years there have been so many blunders from Frontier because they over extended in so many directions without doing any of it to AAA game standards. It's a shame but it's true. (In my not so humble opinion)

So why I am still here? One thing they got spectacularly right from day one-

VR baby!

As much as I loved playing Elite growing up, Elite dangerous wouldn't have kept my attention for more than a few months without VR. I can't overstate this enough! I tried recently to play back again in 2D and there was just no way it was going to hold my interest after playing in VR.

When they first released the Alpha it came with immediate DK1 support and I've watched the game develop alongside the technology happily over the course of DK2, Vive and CV1. The experience never gets old! I fly a ship through space! Simple. It's enough. It's been enough since Alpha with only a handful of systems and features. For me everything since Alpha has been a case of ... uh more stuff, great! If I liked it cool, if not, well who cares - I'm still flying a spaceship!

I guess my point is that VR IS the game for me and ED is still the sim that I always wanted. Anything else is just a bonus :)

Yes vr and the stellar Forge are top flight.
Now eliminate progress bars and unlock gameplay replacing it with Player directed cooperative gameplay, player initiated not just wing missions. Multicrew seemed so promising then the spirit was sucked out by devaluing the non pilot rewards, with no mention of SRV usage, it became a frill.
Sharing assets between players, multiple character slots, those are real changes not just endlessly re skinning the same game mechanics.
Not that I should be walking FDev’s dog. There’s been enough helpful posts already, we need to force their hand a bit. Elite is unfinished business and after an IPO it seems other projects will steal Dev. Resources/ profits.
Bloody Dinos
 
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The KS was the thing that got this game into production (although it wasn't what funded it) but I've often wondered if that's what has held this game back.
The devs are constantly trying to pander to 2 sets of people, those of us who wanted a new version of the classic elite and those who want a full blown MMO with all the trimmings. Instead we got something in the middle.
The horse has already bolted i fear on ED, not in terms of its longevity or sales but in terms of its design philosophy. Things are too set in stone to change now to push the game one way or the other.
I think these debates will rage on until they close the servers down, the game that could have been .......... (the what it could have been depends on what camp you are in)
 
I agree op. I REALLY wanted to give fdev the benefit of the doubt when it came to knowing what they are doing, but after watching dev live-streams and comparing their view of the game with what it actually was it have become clear to me that they are suffering from a case of having their head stuck in their asp if you know what I mean. I remember at one point sandy said something along the lines of "the engineering system is generally a really good system but there are some areas where we could make it even better and that's what we are doing in beyond" as well as addressing the issue of powercreep by basically saying "I think a little bit of powercreep is ok because it's progression."

Another example is when everyone in beta told them that the new material drop rates were too low (boron, lead and rhenium) and they responded with "well they are set to be just as rare as the other materials so this isn't the case unless it's a bug" and refused to do any investigation of their own. Low and behold beyond was released and after mining over 1000 element fragments across 3-5 rings ranging from metal rich to icy to metalic, I have yet to find a single boron and have collected more cadmium (which is for all intents and purposes a g4 material due to engineering blueprints and rarity even though they brought it down to g3 to be inline with their crazy raw materiel trader) than rhenium. I have like 30 lead. By comparison I have maxed out my stores of all the other g1 materials multiple times. I submitted a bug report weeks ago and still haven't even gotten a response.

Yet another example is the whole material trader rates. Almost everyone in beta said that the rates for across category and up a grade were way to high, with myself and probably others going as far as to grind in the beta so we could engineer our ships just so that we could get an accurate feeling of how things would play out in the main game. They still dismissed all this feedback with one line during the livestream.

They are so slow to act on anything that negatively impacts player enjoyment in the game or hurts our progression. However I make a joke video about a novelty exploit and they remove an entire class of missions essentially removing mining from the game in terms of profit. The difference is staggering. They don't even acknowledge the existence of what they said was a bug because it wasn't reported as a bug and thus an entire group of materials are next to unobtainable outside of trading for them even though they had weeks to look into the issue, yet a tongue and cheek video with the phrase "clickbait but you'll click anyway" gets an entire source of income completely removed from the game because some people could have gotten too many credits.

Overall I get a sense that the devs are set in their ways and try to avoid admitting they made mistakes. Which really is a shame. The devs all seem like really nice people and seem pretty smart as well. If they were just able to admit that sometimes they do make mistakes, and major ones, the game would be so much the better for it. Honestly I think they would get a lot less hate if they DID admit that they accidentally screwed stuff up, because it's understandable. E:D is a MASSIVE project with HUGE ambitions and the team behind it aren't experts in MMO design. It's understandable if not expected that they are going to mess up and severely break things from time to time. What differentiates between their mistakes being just growth pains that come with the game maturing and major fundamental issues is the fact that they double down and decide to try to keep marching forward instead of taking a step back to take two steps forward.

Engineers is a great example of this, instead of using beyond as an opportunity to revamp the wholes system, to remove the rng and make engineering about side-grading instead of upgrades with minor downside, they would have been able to make a much better game. One where there isn't an insane power differential between engineered and stock ships, rather the engineered ships were just much more unique and colorful than stock ships. One where players don't spend hours getting unlucky rng rolls while grinding and end up making little to no progress. Instead they doubled down and we still have RNG HGEs and the possibility of getting next to nothing for a roll. (granted it's better than getting a roll which is worse, but I digress) Not to speak of the powercreep, with the best shields being nearly 8x as powerful as stock and weapons getting a 70% damage bonus. (Theoretically the best gamage increase you could get would be focused S1 burst lasers with inertial impacts which would deal over 3.3X the damage they normally do to heavily armored targets' hull. This is an extreme edge case though)

Many aspects fo the game seem stolen from a f2p model

I really wish someone would tell the devs that f2p games are literally design to be just boring enough to make the player feel the need to spend money to skip the grind in order to have fun. Maybe if they knew that they wouldn't be so surprised that exploits are so popular since they are just taking the place of currency and booster store that the devs have unwittingly designed the game around.

Seriously, secondary, hard to obtain currency that can't be traded for with the main currency(mats), progression determined by rng, and long grinds to unlock content are not designed to increase player enjoyment. They are specifically designed to impede it so that players will want to buy boosters, currency and grindwall bypasses.

Imagine if fdev sold a booster that doubled the amount of materials you collected for an hour, so that instead of getting 3 per drop you would get 6. Or a "Palin research bundle" that unlocked and autorepped pailin and gave the player 30 CIF, 30 pharmaceutical isolators, and 30 cadmium. Or a buy-able "premium rolls" booster that doubled the progress you made on your next 10 engineering rolls.

All those silly cash grabs fit right into the economy of E:D and honestly the whole system makes more sense WITH them than without them because they atleast explain why the game is the way it is.
 
I think they are getting better. In my opinion every update after 2.0 was about five steps backwards and one step forward. I feel 3.0 is about 5 steps forward and only one step backwards. It looks like they might be getting the picture now.
 
I think a lot of people need to take a break from this game for at least a couple of months. Take some time, go outside. Maybe your perspective will have changed if you don't play everyday / week / month. I for one am very happy with the game and can't wait to see what comes next. (and this is coming from a person that has been playing since beta)
 
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I'm starting to seriously lose faith in FDev's ability to capitalize on this game's potential. <snip> I want my optimism back.


Indeed. I just came to realise in answering another thread that my expectations over the current design approach are now close to zero, without meaningful changes being made.

It does make me feel resigned to never getting a return on engagement or even my money's worth.

I just hope that ED has years ahead of it. Within which time some real talent can be brought in, to fix the weirdness.
 
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I think a lot of people need to take a break from this game for at least a couple of months. Take some time, go outside. Maybe your perspective will have changed if you don't play everyday / week / month. I for one am very happy with the game and can't wait to see what comes next.

You may be right, but I would argue that if you find yourself needing a 2-3 month long vacation from a past time then you should probably just find another past time. :p
 
I think part of the problem is that sometimes you just "lose the rhythm" of the game and updates tend to provoke that.

It's not quite the same thing as "burn-out".
It's more that you get comfortable doing stuff that you enjoy and then, when things change around, you end up looking around for new stuff to do and, in the process, lose the things that did entertain you.

I currently feel a bit like that.
There are things that flat-out irritate me about the new stuff but none of it is a show-stopper and none of it is actually preventing me from doing the stuff I was planning to do but it does distract me.

It's just a case of regaining your perspective and getting back to the stuff you enjoy rather than worrying about anything else.
 
I remember posting the exact same thought. The ships and universe are really great. But the missions and game mechanics are like a bad free-to-play MMO. It does feel like two completely different companies.

Did FDev outsource the creation of the engines and ships?

The USS system for example is terrible and has been there forever. It should be that USS show up on a panel. You should see a distress call or signs of wreckage radiation on your panel and decide if you want to investigate. There should be hundreds of potential scenarios in the USS. But the way it works is they fly by so fast you don't have time or the information to take a look. And if you do investigate there's no variety or worthwhile reward for taking the time.


That would be very good and finally fun, but at some point, someone decided that it would not be in that way and now that person is averse to any change, even if to finally make the game fun.
 
It could be because I'm struggling with depression right now (or it honestly could be a contributing factor to said depression), it's "kind of a big deal" for someone's opinion to shift as dramatically as mine has.

This sounds like a strong disclosure right here. If you are depressed IRL, any game will at best only mask the symptoms and delay resolving it. Please, reach out to those who can help you, and use whatever tricks you have learned in the past to deal with it. The game will still be here when you feel better, and you will enjoy it more when you do.

Good luck, Commander.
 
I know this is a somewhat pointless thread, but guess I'm just feeling like getting it off my chest: I'm starting to seriously lose faith in FDev's ability to capitalize on this game's potential. 3.0 had a lot of good changes, but every patch just makes me suspect more and more that FDev doesn't understand what makes the good parts of their game good, how people play their game, or generally how to make a fun game. It almost feels like one person / team designed the first part of the game, then handed it off to a completely different set of people- people that fail to realize what made that original stuff good. Makes me think of the Miata NC model: people loved the NA and NB models for their agility, simplicity, and fantastic road feel. When Mazda made the NC model, they made the car a good bit bigger, a good bit heavier, and a hell of a lot nicer inside. By itself it's not necessarily a bad car, but focused on entirely the wrong things. It was not terribly popular because it sacrificed the things that made a Miata a Miata. It lost its soul, and instead became a mediocre example of an already-heavily-populate "niche". And none of this is even touching on FDev's apparent difficulties with QC and testing.

I realize a lot of you are thinking, "Who the hell are you, and why on Earth should I care what you think?" I''m just another player, but I am a devout fan of the Elite series. I've played countless hours since the beta, and spent far more hours thinking about the game / experimenting with different mechanics, trying some come up with suggestions to various challenges, and generally trying to improve the game. It could be because I'm struggling with depression right now (or it honestly could be a contributing factor to said depression), it's "kind of a big deal" for someone's opinion to shift as dramatically as mine has. I don't really know what I expect as far as replies to this thread go, but... I guess I just hope to have my mind changed in the future. I want to have hope again. I want to believe FDev will make this game as great as it can be. I want my optimism back.

I know who you are, and so should anyone who 'frequent's these forums. Your posts are always factually accurate, usually with supporting data, I already recognise you as one of the few who knows what they're talking about in mechanical terms. No need to dsiclaim next time you wanna make a point, we who are like you, value your contributions.

I agree, for what it's worth, it's very disconcerting that knee jerks follow knee jerks, QA does not improve, communication has been better this year, but still incoherent and ambiguous.

People like making credits, taking away (even exploity) methods to achieve this is often going to be received as a gut punch, which puts more complainers on the forums, which lowers the quality of posts, which sets the overall mood.
 
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There's a lot of things wrong with this game, but there are also a lot of things right with it.

Biggest problem is that Frontier don't really seem to understand what players enjoy about the game, or how they actually play it. But that is starting to change, and season 3 is attempting to fix it.

There's a lot of good stuff coming this year, hopefully it will be worth the wait.

Main thing for the meantime is for Frontier to get a grip on the broken and poorly implemented game mechanics.
But also, part of the problem is that the community is so divided on what they actually want. At any given time, we seem to have half the community loudly demanding one thing and the other half loudly demanding the opposite (at least on the forums, etc). And a lot of people seem completely unwilling to accept any compromises. It's a bit of a poisoned chalice. I certainly think it will be difficult to please everyone.

That said, certain aspects of development have been frustratingly slow and FDev have made some odd and poorly considered decisions. And I think there is no question that certain elements of the game are a bit grindy or underdeveloped. So I can understand why people are concerned and frustrated. Still, it doesn't justify the often nasty and toxic rhetoric on these forums.
 
Experience taught me to keep faith and gaming strictly seperated...and that's not anything specifically ED related.
A pair of open eyes, and the willingness to accept (and act on) what you're seeing, are much better tools when it comes to gaming these days.
 
I made three decisions with this game that I regard as key to the longevity of it

1) I got a life time package - I look at each release and think nice or no, not for me and look to the next release.
2) Buy a HOTAS - Amazing difference to the game - control is so intuitive and just a pleasure
3) Bought a Rift - Super awesome, it is just a pleasure to put the head set on and set out on one more mission into the black.

I am also very grateful for the world I have in real life which makes me remember that ED is a game, a hobby to be enjoyed in the precious minutes in a week that I can give to it

I can sit down with my headset on pull back on the joy stick and slide the throttle forward and savour the game for what it is and not worry about my credits per hour, how many missions I have stacked.

Have fun
 
Biggest problem IMO is FD reacting to social media outrage (here) in the same way Politicos and Corporations do to twitter storms online.

There’s what a handful of really vocal posters here who seem to have FD on a string? But there’s 1000’s players who probably don’t even know this forum exists, have no idea about exploit A B or C but just end up baffled and upset when the game they were playing disappears overnight (literally in some cases).

Meh.
 
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