Flashbacks of being taught to kill...

On the contrary, killers is our default state, and civilisation is an illusion. Denying our true nature will make us psychotic eventually.

Nope, afraid that's just wrong. In fact humans find it very hard to kill other humans other than in the heat of the moment. A major part of all military training is to teach you to be able to kill someone for no other reason than that you were told to. The very few who don't need that training tend to be the ones who get filtered into special forces.

Human may be irrational, petty, selfish and ignorant sometimes but only a very few people can kill without compunction or personal motive.
 
On the contrary, killers is our default state, and civilisation is an illusion. Denying our true nature will make us psychotic eventually.

Evidence for this, please? As a medic with extensive experience in psychiatry, I beg to differ. There is no body of published work to state either that civilisation isn't real, or that, as you imply, not killing people would cause us to become 'psychotic'. Even if killing was our true nature, denying it wouldn't induce psychosis. Depression, maybe, but a delusional state, no.
 
To kill, you must choose not to care or be motivated enough by passion. In a game this follows similar trajectories of conscious for those of us that have had too much experience with these sort of things. Companion is the way forward many of us find to deal with our own baggage.

It's a shame this isn't as much of a viable option in games these days, and an untapped potential.

A fun game and all that. Context, my fellow Commanders. That is what we need, and other options.

There is much in here that makes sense, but on the other hand, this is a game, and if you want to get into metaphysics, the problem where you draw the boundary between what is OK in real life and what is OK on screen. In real life, I don't fly around in 120m credits worth of heavily armed spaceship, I don't break the laws of physics on a daily basis, and I never kill anyone. So Elite has to be judged on a different set of rules, because it is not real. No killings happen in the game, no-one flies faster than the speed of light, and no-one (except Frontier) makes any money from it. All we do is keep ourselves amused—playing.

But even if the trading side of Elite has been buffed in the patch, it still doesn't offer the chance to stay out of trouble, because computer-controlled pirates don't have morals. It means that Elite offers no escape from pew pew unless you build a fast ship and get good at avoiding interdictions, which both can be done. On the other hand there are quite a few games around today where no killing is involved.
 
It's the use of our rational faculty that sets us apart from the animals, if it's rational to kill then so be it, the problem with this game is that killing is fun but isn't supported by rational in game reasons to do so.
 
I was generalizing. There are some exceptions of course. What is it that you're looking for and what do you expect to find? There have been a number of related studies for what they're worth and what value people place in them. People generally have to be motivated to kill others. It doesn't come naturally. What is or isn't natural is somewhat subjective, I suppose.

Either way, it isn't the typical state of being and interacting with others. Most would much rather avoid mortal conflict in general if given a viable opportunity.

Hi WR3ND. You’ve instigated an interesting thread, if a somewhat unusual one for a game, so anything that I say is said respectfully. :)

The topic of the manifestations of cruelty and violence in childhood is still very taboo. I think a lot of children go through a period of experimentation, where they begin to investigate what “life” means, what “death” means and the extent of their power over other living things. Deliberately squashing an insect for example is often accompanied by a disturbing fascination. This behaviour seems to be pretty natural and innate, but is usually followed by a sense of the profundity of their actions and even a degree of guilt, or else their behaviour is corrected by social messages.

Of course, you're also correct in saying that a violent, destructive environment will profoundly influence the individuals within it. I just think that we should be wary of idealising things, even children.

My main point is that we shouldn’t be absolutist, and that we have a shared inheritance of violence and constructive social instincts. Of course, the two are not necessary in opposition either. A society will often define itself in relation to what it is not, and “outsiders” can be subjected to all of the violence that its members refrain from venting on each other. We see this tendency in action all around us.

You’ve raised interesting questions about how games might explore more weighty subjects though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_game
 
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You aren't killing if people have escape pods. Unless of course you shoot the escape pods. But I came for the bounty on your ship, not for your life, so I'll the cops pick you up and put you in a prison cell, while I do my job as an occasional bounty hunter.
 
You aren't killing if people have escape pods. Unless of course you shoot the escape pods. But I came for the bounty on your ship, not for your life, so I'll the cops pick you up and put you in a prison cell, while I do my job as an occasional bounty hunter.

Well, sort of. It's a bit of contrived fiction to fit the meta of the game and respawns. As I recall, even David Braben has talked about losing ships to other players as being "killed" in the game. Six of one and a half dozen of the other. Put some chocolate syrup on it and call it a sundae.
 
There is no body of published work to state either that civilisation isn't real

he didn't say not real, but an illusion, and indeed it is. civilization has real consequences but is made of mere stories and fantasies. e.g. god, the common good, human rights are all fantasies our civilization has built upon, but are arbitrary assertions which have no relation whatsoever to natural life or reality.

other than that i could show you tons of published work stating that the human soul exists, or even that that of females weights half that of males, or springs into bodily existence some hours later. it's part of the pile of nonsense our civilization has grown out of. and it shows! :D
 
Jenner, Robert, this has gone even beyond MY level of topic veer.

I need more fish sandwiches to survive threads like this. :(
 
There actually seems to be a natural aversion to killing. The phenomenon of soldiers firing over the enemy rather than at them in wartime was the subject of serious analysis by the Pentagon, and even led to changes in how soldiers are trained to dehumanize the enemy.

If there is no deep rooted enemy, everyone else is a potential friend.

Man is by nature inclined to scare others, and only kill their true enemies.

That is why it is important for the Evil Globalists of the world to trick us into thinking that there are enemies, where there is, in reality, none.
 
Train martial arts and see the best that humans can be. Best people on Earth.

That's been my experience as well. Some egos here and there, but I guess that's to be expecting anywhere, really. Most though seem surprisingly humble and kind. Maybe that comes with confidence and stability for some. Haven't been in that scene for quite a while now myself.

Cheers.
 
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