Why not let players play the way they want?

[BlackSpaceCowboy]

And as others keep telling you: you have the freedom to what you want, but choices have consequences.

You have the freedom to do what you want BUT...

What's wrong with more freedom? I'm not saying I want this kind of game because that's the kind of game I enjoy. I'm saying let everyone play the game the way they want. That way everyone can be happy.

If you want to try different roles, you're free to do that. If you want to stick with one role, you can do that too. Maybe all you want to do is explore. You can do that.

 

[jasonbarron]

That would be a workable bandaid. But really, we need proper bounty hunting.

I would take that, too, if you insist

 

[gooddoc]

I don't mind doing the different things that FD offer in the game. The only thing I don't do is pewpewing other ships, everything else I'll try.

I may not like it all, but then again I know for instance if I want to upgrade my modules I go to engineers. Iv already checked out which engineers I'm not going to, 'cos it means pewpew. So I know from what they offer in upgrades I'm not going to get for my ships.
I base what engineers I can use & what they offer, how many upgrades to do with my fleet.

Even with engineers, it's not that I'm going to be obtaining mats all the time for months, it's doing something different, for a short period of time. Then when I'm done I move on doing what I like best....exploring.

When engineering first came out, I'd finished with it after a week & didn't do any more engineering for more than 18 months. In no way do I think FD are forcing me to do something I don't want to do.

 

[Ian Skippy]

You have the freedom to do what you want BUT...

What's wrong with more freedom? I'm not saying I want this kind of game because that's the kind of game I enjoy. I'm saying let everyone play the game the way they want. That way everyone can be happy.

If you want to try different roles, you're free to do that. If you want to stick with one role, you can do that too. Maybe all you want to do is explore. You can do that.

You dont want more freedom. You can already play the way you want. You really should start by acknowledging this. What you want is not more freedom, but more diverse rewards for doing a minimum set of activities. That has nothing to do with freedom. Many people do stick with just exploration. Tons of people are like that. If you want to just shoot stuff, you can do that. Noone is forcing you to do anything.

Again, I am not saying you are wrong about what you want, it is an opinion as valid as any other. But you keep insisting on pretending its about freedom. ​It isnt.

 

[BlackSpaceCowboy]

Your basic rule is wrong.

You need to reward players for using the most efficient tactic available. That's what most people find fun. They want that the game recognises that they are good at something specific, therefore it's necessary that different professions and focus gives different rewards. It's really basic game design.
If you are playing a sorcerer you should be better at casting fireballs and if you want to be a fighter you will be good at using a sword. If you are playing a football game your goal keeper will be better at goal keeping than goal shooting. If you play a racing game and you chose a car with good acceleration it will probably not be the best car at top speeds. Do I need to go on?
If you want to brew a potion you should go in the woods and look for ingredients rather than slaying the next bandit hoping that he carries flowers for his loved one.

Can't you reward players for being better bounty hunters, miners, explorers and pirates? Can't they find efficient tactics in whatever role they choose?

When you talk about a sorcerer getting better at casting fireballs, you're talking more about a skill tree. I don't think there is a skill progression in this game.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Half Drow?

No no - if there's drow in the mix it would be a: female drow-elf rogue-mage assassin

#KnowYourDnDMeta

 

[Hellakitty]

Well that's the last time I spend five minutes script-writing for the forum.

Ungrateful set of you-know-what. [mad]

 

[Sylow]

I think that a good way to have our cake and eat it too would be to have ships drop a black box that we can scan for data, the more difficult and dangerous the ship, the more juicy the data. I've noticed that with Anaconda's since 3.0, the loot spawn table has been tweaked so that they usually yield 1x g5 manufactured material which makes farming them more interesting now.

.
So... if somebody plays a miner, should rocks also spawn datamined wake exceptions and chemical manipulators?
.
That being said, i agree that the whole "circle a station and scan wakes" is one of the most boring parts of gathering materials. Much data can be acquired by just selecting and scanning ships, which you do all the time as bounty hunter. So in my eyes you should not ask how can you avoid having to use the wake scanner. The question rather would be, what can be done to get the wake scanner into actual play and out of the current "only use it to get scan data" role.
.
Current wing assassination missions, which actually are closer to actual bounty hunting than RES-cruising are a start, but not good enough yet. So that's what would really need improvement: get more things into bounty hunting which would justify/require carrying and using a wake scanner.
.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

[Fade from black]

*scene shows a Bladerunner-esque interior, two cops are sat relaxed at a table playing cards and smoking cigarettes*

Cop 1 > Hey Bob, you noticed we got a new bounty hunter in town? Seems ta be pretty decent at it too. Flies a Fer-de-Lance.

Cop 2 > Noh Jim, I've been off duty for two weeks, what's his name?

Cop 1 > *Her*. Her name is Hellzorkettle. Or something like that. Anyway, we sent Bill out in the new Anaconda the other evening to help out. Came back and he'd not even fired a shot. Said she was melting them up like nobody's business.

[Cut to close up over Cop 2's shoulder, focus out of window. A giant space battle plays out in the far distance among an asteroid field. Pink plasma and laser beams glitter. A single, soundless explosion erupts]

Cop 2 > Okay, well if she wants to clean up the system, I can sit here all night playing cards. I'll teach you how to hustle properly one of these nights, Jimmy-boy. *laughs mockingly*

Cop 1 > Yeah sure, you still owe me those twelve hundred credits I lent you for putting that hole in the...... [interrupted by]

Cop 2 > Let's not go there, eh *chuckles nervously*

[long shot of the room as an awkward silence descends]

Cop 1 > Heyy, uhh. Bob. You remember that time we busted into the Sergeant's office and found those numbers under the whisky in his bottom drawer?

Cop 2 > Aw come on Jim, let's not **** about with this again, ok?

Cop 1 > No. I'm serious. That Fer-de-Lance could use a turn of speed, probably some bigger shields and some nice fat slugs in that huge multicannon. All we'd have to do is send a message from anonymous protocol from the terminal out in the hallway. No-one would know any different.

[close up of Bob's face as he struggles with the dilemma]

Cop 2 > Ok ok, y'know what. Let's give it a few days. If she's still alive and the crime stats tally up, we're on shift again on Wednesday night. If it means we get to sit here getting paid instead of risking our backsides out there, I'm in.

Cop 1 > I'm in.

Cop 2 > Ok, let me draft up a message through anonprot. We're doing what, Palin, Todd and the shields guy.. umm, Cheung?

Cop 1 > Yep, that's him. You still got the numbers in your book?

Cop 2 > Sure do, they're kinda my insurance blanket.

[long shot of the room as Cop 2 kicks his chair back and strolls over to the door, flicking through a notebook he takes out of the inside pocket of his jacket]

Cop 2 > Hey uhh, what was her name again? Hellokizmet?

Cop 1 > Yeah, something like that. Or Echopitty. Look it up on the station landing logs. It's the FDL with all the tack-on bits that the kids are putting on their ships these days. Must have more money than sense.

Cop 2 > *laughing* Don't they all Jim. Don't they all......

[And scene. Fade to black]

I liked it.

 

[SnowyNI]

It'll never happen, if we got to play how we wanted I'd be in offline mode right now and as happy as a blind pup in a hotdog factory!

 

[BlackSpaceCowboy]

What you want is not more freedom, but more diverse rewards for doing a minimum set of activities. That has nothing to do with freedom.

That's pretty much the definition of freedom. The carrot is just as coercive as the stick. When I reward my dog for obeying my command, I'm controlling him.

Would you enjoy the game less if gave you the freedom to play it the way you want and still progress (upgrade, unlock permits and gain access to ships)?

 

[babelfisch]

That's pretty much the definition of freedom. The carrot is just as coercive as the stick. When I reward my dog for obeying my command, I'm controlling him.

Would you enjoy the game less if gave you the freedom to play it the way you want and still progress (upgrade, unlock permits and gain access to ships)?

I actually did go exploring because the game asked me to. I would've never thought that I enjoy it but it was extremely fun and immersive. It was an awesome experience that I would've missed otherwise.

 

[babelfisch]

Can't you reward players for being better bounty hunters, miners, explorers and pirates? Can't they find efficient tactics in whatever role they choose?

Sure, why not. Reward them! But let's have more mining rewards for miners and more data rewards for hackers, because it wouldn't make any sense to find data buried inside an asteroid.
The game already doesn't make any sense most of the time, please don't make it worse.

 

[verminstar]

My role in the verse? I sincerely hope I dont have one as that might mean I gotta be responsible fer something...thats possibly not a wonderful idea...trust me on this.

Im a civilian pilot...an honest trader just tryin to make his way in the verse ^

 

[Blaize Meduenin]

Theres a very simple way to fix this issue:

Make material traders useful in ways other than just trading down in single specific chains.

IF sideways trades were say 2:1 not 6:1 changing any material for any other same grade within the same type would be fine
IF trading up was say 4:1 not 6:1 bulk lower grade materials trading up would be an option (but still slower than actually getting the higher tier materials direct)
FINALLY add to this cross type sideways trades allowing for example raw materials to be traded for data (this is where a 6:1 maybe ok)

With these 3 fixes any activity gives you some materials and the traders let those be traded to get any material you need, just not as efficiently.

No need for every activity having every drop, or any activity being as good at getting any upgrade as any other, just MORE options to play a game for enjoymnt instead of being forced to do things you dont enjoy.

Just take a moment to think on that concept, a game that is made for enjoyment! wow inconceivable right...

 

[Chrystoph]

Do you feel the game, as it is, allows you to remain immersed in your role? Do your actions feel convincing and believable based on your role?

There is a foundational flaw in your [rhetorical] question in that you presume that I am playing a role. At different times, I prefer to do different things in the game.

That being the case, your argument is... incorrect.

 

[babelfisch]

Theres a very simple way to fix this issue:

Make material traders useful in ways other than just trading down in single specific chains.

IF sideways trades were say 2:1 not 6:1 changing any material for any other same grade within the same type would be fine
IF trading up was say 4:1 not 6:1 bulk lower grade materials trading up would be an option (but still slower than actually getting the higher tier materials direct)
FINALLY add to this cross type sideways trades allowing for example raw materials to be traded for data (this is where a 6:1 maybe ok)

With these 3 fixes any activity gives you some materials and the traders let those be traded to get any material you need, just not as efficiently.

No need for every activity having every drop, or any activity being as good at getting any upgrade as any other, just MORE options to play a game for enjoymnt instead of being forced to do things you dont enjoy.

Just take a moment to think on that concept, a game that is made for enjoyment! wow inconceivable right...

Sounds reasonable.

 

[KellyR]

I would love if it were a simulator. But I'm pretty sure that in 3304 you can just buy arsenic like you can do today. In real life you don't go mining the raw materials you need to upgrade your car's exhaust system. And I doubt we would reintroduce bartering in 3304.

I think it would be great if it did stick to being a simulator. And that's essentially what I'm advocating.

In real life, you don't have to be a gold prospector to obtain gold. You can be a doctor and earn money and convert that money into gold. I'm just suggesting that whatever role you take in the game, you should be able to convert your experience in that role into upgrades you want.

Arsenic is rather hard to come by in the quantities you would need. At least for a private citizen. But I do agree about some of the other materials; iron, selenium, vanadium and such. As for gold, you can purchase that at the commodity market of most extraction stations; no need to mine it. Gold ore, though. I don't believe private citizens in the United States can get their hands on that except through illegal means (or mining).

Look. Bottom line is this is a game and it's not perfect. But the original elite was the same way. There was no way you could update your ship to what they called and Iron A** by just bounty hunting or mining or piracy in the original game. It required trading as well.

 

[krylite]

The game currently is more of a sim rather than an rpg where you get exp points or skill points to allocate into something. It's more like FSX where your own skill in flying and controlling the vehicle controls the outcome rather than have some rpg assumed skilled aspect. That said, for rpg experience aspects, I think it would be a neat idea if some type of it came with spacelegs as addon gameplay to the current game, but primarily spacelegs oriented. Where npc crew could have particular roles to help as multicrew (quasi autopilot for example) or "away missions" and AI scripted tasks, if they ever get to that.

As for materials such as arsenic, I think in ED lore these elements you have to mine for are for whatever reason, maybe something to do with interstellar commerce, are not as common or tradeable on the commodities market list. And actually it's not that big a deal as you only need to find arsenic on an occasional basis and not constantly for the engineers. FDev has also alleviated the search with Beyond's material traders and I think I recall arsenic occasionally offered as mission rewards in the past and the current mission board seems to offer more batches of materials recently. So maybe instead of suggesting a major game change which would certainly affect major aspects of current ED gameplay for everyone, FDev could just be reminded that missions could offer more engineer rare materials as rewards.

I did a bunch of assassination missions in the last half year as a 'freelancer' for particular type factions to influence the bgs/powerplay, and I never really felt I had to go out of my way constantly to be a miner, explorer, etc. Even for dropped materials and tech materials, it's really just the same as picking/scooping up "loot" leftover from a defeated opponent same as many other mmo's or games. As for explorers, it's nice in the current system where one can get materials for repairs for the afms out in deep space where there is no societal infrastructure for trading and one can just terrain mine for the materials in the simulated freedom of Horizons. So overall, imo I'm fine with the current system the way it is.

 

[Leadfoot]

My CMDR is a half-elf fighter mage with dual handed specialization.

Wow, you found a way to combine vanilla with beige.

Can mine be an Orc wizard? He's too big to fit into the ship-launched fighter but he can fly that type 10 into other ships and make the impact turn into a rainbow of pretty sparkles.

When you talk about a sorcerer getting better at casting fireballs, you're talking more about a skill tree. I don't think there is a skill progression in this game.

In my third run through Morrowind as a mage, I spent an entire evening in a small room located in the Mage's Guild (to re-charge mana at an altar), shooting one fireball after the other at a wall. This was simply to .... OMG .... I just realized: I was GRINDING back then!!!

OMG, will this GRIND in video games ever end???? <falls to the floor sobbing>