Live and let live?

[Stealthie]

Oh jeez, I've just had the misfortune to click on that 'treatise on blahblah whatever' link.

Not a parody. Not one tiny bit a parody.

https://i.imgur.com/7wIokrj.gif

And posting that means I went back and read it too.

The whole thing is fundamentally flawed in that it relies on the assertion that gold-rushes are exploits.
This is a fallacy.

The game IS obviously intended to be capable of generating these situations.
If it wasn't, they wouldn't happen because the code wouldn't have been created which makes them happen.

If FDev subsequently decide that the thing they programmed is "overpowered" and nerf it, that's up to them but it doesn't make it an exploit.

Now, if you're mode-flipping to stack missions or using the hyperspace exploit to halve journey times for passenger missions, I'll argue with you all day about the legitimacy of your actions.
If, OTOH, you're just taking advantage of things the game was programmed to do, suggesting that's an "exploit" is utter cobblers.

Now you'll have to excuse me while I go and "exploit" the prevalence of Potato Radios at HGEs in LHS 20. [where is it]

*EDIT*

On that note, doncha just hate it when this happens?

Spoiler

 

[Laste]

Where is this post/rep ratio? As far as i was concerned someone giving you rep was just a digital pat on your back and meaningless in the grand scheme of things in the forum.
I certainly didn't think it was actually being recorded somewhere on a stat board.

 

[Hellakitty]

AKA- "Spam whine threads every 5 minutes about the latest hot topic and take offense to every post ever written making a response to it".

Or the even more popular "Respond with five words only" posts.

One could even say that I actually earned it by being a contributing member to the forums instead of a helpless troll given my low count.

And the reason my Rep might be low is because I have actually noticed I only get Rep when I post memes, get sarcastic, or go full on pimphand. So every bit of rep I earned was ether because I reenforced someone's beliefs or was just being silly.

Nether of which is easy for me because my humor is abnormal so not everyone finds it's funny and I don't hand out free compliments to be nice.

Frankly I'm happy with it. It reflects a genuine effort to be a member of this community rather then some rapidly inflated puffed up pandering to the audience.

I think the only thing you puff up for and pander to is your massive ego.

 

[Adhock]

The whole thing is fundamentally flawed in that it relies on the assertion that gold-rushes are exploits.
This is a fallacy.

*rolls eyes*

And this is why I hate TL: DRs.

I wrote out an entire paragraph on the definition of "Exploit" and why it applies to Gold Rushes.

You didn't even read it did you? You just glossed over it like everyone else.

For God's sake I even wrote out in the Conclusion paragraph that if Frontier publicly endorsed and embraced it instead of "removing unintended gameplay" THEN it wouldn't be an Exploit.

 

[Stealthie]

*rolls eyes*

And this is why I hate TL: DRs.

I wrote out an entire paragraph on the definition of "Exploit" and why it applies to Gold Rushes.

You didn't even read it did you? You just glossed over it like everyone else.

For God's sake I even wrote out in the Conclusion paragraph that if Frontier publicly endorsed and embraced it instead of "removing unintended gameplay" THEN it wouldn't be an Exploit.

I provided a concise synopsis of your premise.

It's wrong.

Hey, that's even more concise!

 

[Adhock]

I provided a concise synopsis of your premise.

It's wrong.

Hey, that's even more concise!

So how would you define "exploit" then?

 

[Stealthie]

So how would you define "exploit" then?

I have no issue with your definition of "exploit".

The problem is that you're wrong to suggest that gold rushes fit that definition.

 

[voidwalker]

The Zero fighter was the most maneuverable of it's time and able to easily outmaneuver anything the US had.

Looks like someone doesn't know their aviation history very well...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_F6F_Hellcat

 

[Laste]

You have to admit when you use the term, conclusion paragraph, for a post, in a game forum, that the majority of forum users saw that large post and went meh... not gonna read it.
Or they went, wow, this one thinks highly of his own opinion.
So when you ask people if they read it or just glossed over it, the answer is probably, no ,they didn't read it, myself included.

 

[voidwalker]

*rolls eyes*

And this is why I hate TL: DRs.

I wrote out an entire paragraph on the definition of "Exploit" and why it applies to Gold Rushes.

You didn't even read it did you? You just glossed over it like everyone else.

For God's sake I even wrote out in the Conclusion paragraph that if Frontier publicly endorsed and embraced it instead of "removing unintended gameplay" THEN it wouldn't be an Exploit.

The increased rank rate that is now possible is an intended feature, and a side-effect of having reward options for missions. If you're talking about easy credit exploits, they are unintended, and the 'nerfs' are simply balancing them to be more in line with other ways of making money. The purpose of this is to be inclusive. As I explained above, if one thing is making substantially more money than something else with less effort, people will flock to that. People will also feel like they have to flock to that instead of doing what they actually want to do.

Rank is different. Rank never should have been a wall to progress, because credits already are. As someone who actually did the grinding back in the day, for both Imperial and Federation ranks, I say get rid of the rank grind entirely. Just because we had to do it doesn't mean everyone else should have to go through it.

The problem is that you're wrong to suggest that gold rushes fit that definition.

The credit ones do, for reasons I've explained above.

 

[master_xean]

For the purposes of elite dangerous an "exploit" is when someone else can get something that I already have.

 

[Stealthie]

The credit ones do, for reasons I've explained above.

I disagree.

They programmed the code to allow these things to happen. Thus, not unintended.
Unlikely, sure. Unexpectedly profitable, possible. Not unintended though.

As I say, if FDev decide to nerf them because they're unexpectedly profitable, that's their prerogative but I don't consider them "exploits".

 

[EXIT_STAGE_LEFT]

i've never said meh.....ever oops

 

[Hooplah]

Greetings,

In past times ranking up had to do with making credits for the Feds or Empire at about 10 million to get to the next ascension. This also required to be allied in a system with many factions to get the best profits. This still works the same if one takes this path and the basics of being allied with the factions is also needed. What has changed is that a player can choose per reputation and influence but won't make any credits doing it going for the fast track. Not a big deal when a player already has billions of credits. A big deal for those without credits to have a path to obtain the ships locked by rank much easier to acquire without all the grinding. This was a great decision by the Frontier Devs. Still those without credits will have to come up with them to properly outfit their latest greatest ship. Lord help them if they go into Open play without knowing what they are doing! Even NPCs can take them out depending upon your combat rating as the higher it gets the more difficult NPC ships a player will deal with. Sneaky those Devs! It is NOT an exploit but another alternative playing the game. I'm good with it.

...I’ve been playing since launch and have assets of about 1.5 billion. In that time I’ve gained Elite trader status, but have got a long way to go in terms of the ships I want etc...

If you have been playing since the launch in 2014 you may have been doing it wrong. I made 5 billion on a new PS4 account in 300 hours just Trading. It took me 2800 hrs on a PC account to figure it all out. Nothing is easy in ED. Let's discuss this...PM me if you prefer.

Regards

 

[Adhock]

They programmed the code to allow these things to happen. Thus, not unintended.

So if they're unintended then why does Frontier keep disabling the mechanics that cause them to spawn until they can Hotfix them?

Surely they can't be fixing something because it's... doing something it's not supposed to? It's not working as designed and therefore needs to be fixed?

The result is therefore... UNINTENDED?

 

[voidwalker]

I disagree.

They programmed the code to allow these things to happen. Thus, not unintended.
Unlikely, sure. Unexpectedly profitable, possible. Not unintended though.

As I say, if FDev decide to nerf them because they're unexpectedly profitable, that's their prerogative but I don't consider them "exploits".

And people can't make mistakes with their programming. It never happens.

[noob]

The fact is, it is entirely unintended for any one activity to be so vastly and disproportionately more profitable to undertake than any other. It removes options and makes that one thing the thing to do, and people who want to do something else feel locked into an activity just for the sake of keeping up with everyone else. That is a fact. Your agreement isn't required for that to be true. If it wasn't a fact, FDEV wouldn't have removed missions that need rebalancing.

 

[Adhock]

Looks like someone doesn't know their aviation history very well...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_F6F_Hellcat

Oh look.

An aircraft designed to counter a fighter that was developed and dominated the skies for two years.

Designed to be heavier to withstand more damage and it's own internal improvements.

Once again supporting my point that the air tactics used is what gave them the edge.

God I wish I could remember the maneuver that was developed for that reason. I just can't remember the bloody name...

 

[Stealthie]

So if they're unintended then why does Frontier keep disabling the mechanics that cause them to spawn until they can Hotfix them?

Surely they can't be fixing something because it's... doing something it's not supposed to? It's not working as designed and therefore needs to be fixed?

The result is therefore... UNINTENDED?

You seem to be conflating "unexpected" and "unintended".

If FDev create something that's intended to happen and then, when it happens, the results are unexpected in some way, that's their problem. Not ours.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Hi Commanders
As I’ve seen this forum evolve over the years (from launch) I’m sort of scared what response I’ll get, but here goes ...
Yesterday I used the current reputation gain missions mechanic to rank up to Rear Admiral.
My personal view is that previously it was far too slow to try to achieve this rank, although I had tried at points.
Some will think of this as an exploit and, some I guess, will feel agitated that I’ve done this in a shorter time frame than they achieved
This is the thing I don’t get.
I’ve been playing since launch and have assets of about 1.5 billion. In that time I’ve gained Elite trader status, but have got a long way to go in terms of the ships I want etc.
I’ve never done any skimmer missions and I believe that recently it was possible for people to earn billions in hours.
What I don’t understand is why people really feel aggrieved by this?
Why does it matter if people take a route to get somewhere they want to be in considerably less time/effort than it may have taken themselves?
I play the game for my enjoyment and don’t balance out that to what others are doing. I really don’t get it.
I feel it would be better just to appreciate everyone who loves the game, whatever that game means to them.
I maybe missing something I guess so I would welcome others views (albeit with trepidation!).
Fly safe.

Because anyone who finds a way to accomplish something faster than someone else will automatically flip the BGS entirely in their own favor, upsetting the delicate balance this same group of about 10 people have been botting into the shape they've wanted since launch day, the entire delicate balance of the galaxy will come apart at the seams, and they'll feel as if their self-imposed limit of 1 mission per day will amount to them having wasted their time - and they were backers.

 

[Stealthie]

And people can't make mistakes with their programming. It never happens.

[noob]

The fact is, it is entirely unintended for any one activity to be so vastly and disproportionately more profitable to undertake than any other. It removes options and makes that one thing the thing to do, and people who want to do something else feel locked into an activity just for the sake of keeping up with everyone else. That is a fact. Your agreement isn't required for that to be true. If it wasn't a fact, FDEV wouldn't have removed missions that need rebalancing.

If there is a mistake with the coding that leads to these things happening, I don't have a problem with FDev suspending the thing until it can be fixed.

I don't really see that as being the case though. It seems to be more a case of unexpected conflations of circumstances producing unexpected results, which people take advantage of.

It's also a bit naive to suggest that these things get removed and/or nerfed simply because they're "broken".
As with passenger missions, the real issue (IMO, at least) is that FDev are trying to figure out a way to revise them so they can't be exploited in conjunction with other, erm, exploits such as the hyperspace bug or mode-flipping.
Course, FDev aren't ever likely to admit this is the case, until they figure out how to fix the real exploits.