Modes Reworking the game modes

[Robert Maynard]

The WoW thing works both ways though - as, if pledging to PowerPlay was the PvP-on flag, by default all players who don't pledge would be PvP-off and unavailable for PvP, even in Open.

Then there's the fact that PowerPlay exists in all three game modes and would remain accessible to those that don't want to engage in direct PvP.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Where does it say this is locked to open?

Because from what I've read, you can gain and claim these in private groups.

Cant claim someones bounty if they are in private and solo can you? That alone defeats the meaning of consensual PVP during powerplay activities. Doesnt it?

 

[Robert Maynard]

No, it does not - as consensual means that both parties agree to it - and players in Solo and Private Groups would seem to not be agreeing to engage in direct PvP.....

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

No, it does not - as consensual means that both parties agree to it - and players in Solo and Private Groups would seem to not be agreeing to engage in direct PvP.....

You guys seem to be missing the context here. Almost purposefully.

Powerplay is consensual PVP as you know what you are signing up for when you get into it.

Not a Well, oh gee I dont feel like being stopped today. Better use my shieldess conda and stack as much powerplay needed as I can cause players cant shoot me in the PVP part of the game.

Im really REALLY getting frustrated with how obtuse some of you are with this.

 

[UmbraRex]

Cant claim someones bounty if they are in private and solo can you? That alone defeats the meaning of consensual PVP during powerplay activities. Doesnt it?

Someone needs to buy a new account, name the CMDR 'PP PvP Here!' set up a PG and accept all requests to join the next time there is a sale, then publicize the heck out of it here.

Just to establish how many PPers actually want direct PvP...

 

[Robert Maynard]

We choose whether to make ourselves available every single time we join the game - by selecting one of the three game modes.

That PowerPlay is implemented in all three game modes and the fact that in one of those game modes direct PvP *cannot* occur rather undermines the claim that pledging to PowerPlay means that a player has agreed to direct PvP all the time.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Someone needs to buy a new account, name the CMDR 'PP PvP Here!' set up a PG and accept all requests to join the next time there is a sale, then publicize the heck out of it here.

Just to establish how many PPers actually want direct PvP...

diminishing returns could fix that though on a timer like we have now with notoriety.

listen guys every problem as to why it wont work. Including jockeys wall is all stuff that game developers have gone though in the 90s.

Why do you guys think it wont happen here? I genuinely do not understand how you guys dont know this.

We choose whether to make ourselves available every single time we join the game - by selecting one of the three game modes.

That PowerPlay is implemented in all three game modes and the fact that in one of those game modes direct PvP *cannot* occur rather undermines the claim that pledging to PowerPlay means that a player has agreed to direct PvP all the time.

Do you have a script?

 

[Robert Maynard]

Nope - just familiar with the design of the game, its development, updates and its advertising.

 

[Roybe]

diminishing returns could fix that though on a timer like we have now with notoriety.

listen guys every problem as to why it wont work. Including jockeys wall is all stuff that game developers have gone though in the 90s.

Why do you guys think it wont happen here? I genuinely do not understand how you guys dont know this.



Do you have a script?

Because, after this many years...we still have the flags that the devs promised. And the game's most basic design is that these flags must exist.

There is only one galaxy...all players, regardless of interaction, platform, or playstyle will have equal access to this one galaxy. 'One galaxy to rule them all' IS the base design...with everything, including player choices, stemming from that.

Why is this so hard for you to accept? That is why this discussion continues. We understand your points and desires. Unfortunately for you, they are going to be ignored by the devs...because the devs have stated they will ignore them many time in the past...and now do not even acknowledge the discussion. People with this particular problem need to accept it...resistance is futile!

 

[Sylveria]

Someone needs to buy a new account, name the CMDR 'PP PvP Here!' set up a PG and accept all requests to join the next time there is a sale, then publicize the heck out of it here.

Just to establish how many PPers actually want direct PvP...

Exactly. I've suggested this before, too. If they want to be "heard" they need to demonstrate with numbers. This is how Mobius gained its own "fame"- because of mass numbers accumulated by like-minded people who wanted a Cooperative PvE yet didn't get it.

And if PvP players did the same, and showed FD with proven numbers (instead of Reddit speculation) they'd likely have a much better reception of ideas by Frontier.

Frontier absolutely knows- they have the data, and no matter how much propaganda is thrown out into the forums, they know who's lying and who isn't.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Exactly. I've suggested this before, too. If they want to be "heard" they need to demonstrate with numbers. This is how Mobius gained its own "fame"- because of mass numbers accumulated by like-minded people who wanted a Cooperative PvE yet didn't get it.

And if PvP players did the same, and showed FD with proven numbers (instead of Reddit speculation) they'd likely have a much better reception of ideas by Frontier.

Frontier absolutely knows- they have the data, and no matter how much propaganda is thrown out into the forums, they know who's lying and who isn't.

Indeed. They know how is lying. And who isint.

Because, after this many years...we still have the flags that the devs promised. And the game's most basic design is that these flags must exist.

There is only one galaxy...all players, regardless of interaction, platform, or playstyle will have equal access to this one galaxy. 'One galaxy to rule them all' IS the base design...with everything, including player choices, stemming from that.

Why is this so hard for you to accept? That is why this discussion continues. We understand your points and desires. Unfortunately for you, they are going to be ignored by the devs...because the devs have stated they will ignore them many time in the past...and now do not even acknowledge the discussion. People with this particular problem need to accept it...resistance is futile!

Oh I understand it. People are asking for change so it makes sense. Because it doesnt make sense for the multiplayer parameters of the game to be ruled by the single player part of the game.

 

[Jockey79]

Cant claim someones bounty if they are in private and solo can you? That alone defeats the meaning of consensual PVP during powerplay activities. Doesnt it?

You can claim it if you are in a PG with them.

Which means this feature isn't locked to open and PG users can make use of it.
You can have PP PGs and people can make full use of PP and the PP Bounty system, without having you in there with them.

Unless they let you in.

So it is still optional who they PvP with.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

You can claim it if you are in a PG with them.

Which means this feature isn't locked to open and PG users can make use of it.
You can have PP PGs and people can make full use of PP and the PP Bounty system, without having you in there with them.

Unless they let you in.

So it is still optional who they PvP with.

Oh gee, let me let the guys in that can stop me. Said no one ever. Mobius has rules against PVP like that. All theyd have to do is go there. Then if a PVPer follows which HAS HAPPENED. A raindance of carebears happen. Also the guy from what I have been told is if they are caught with any account doing it again. They are all banned. Fdev does try to hold mobius as to what it was created for. I respect it.

But there shouldnt be safe haven from a part of the game directed at giving context to PVP.

Removing that is what we have now with advantages with builds in solo and private vs open players. When Meta's happen like that there is a staleness to any game. Like League of legends, so there is a seasonal shake up. Where lots of things change.

I personally feel Elite needs that shake up. Instead of peaking at all time highs when credits are easy to get. Maybe people would see how deep the game really is and get involved in it. Because the mile wide inch deep thing upsets me. Because people are limited in every way possible, credits, modes, materials, engineers. Some of that is being fixed right now. They did a great job with engineers. I hope they do something with the modes and the credits too.

Like CQC people dont want to play it because its PVP. People dont play it cause its structure sucks.

After a certain point the same thing happens in the main game. There are too many walls and let downs to get through.

Im lucky to be here, if it wasnt for my group and the multiplayer part of this game. I wouldnt be here. Its why I bought it. Its what was advertised to me.

When you see that no where did it say solo and private would hold the advantage over open play. Why would anyone chose to be stopped in a competition against each other.

And if you cant realize that. Then you're doing it on purpose.

Stop it.

 

[Sylveria]

Oh gee, let me let the guys in that can stop me. Said no one ever. Mobius has rules against PVP like that. All theyd have to do is go there. Then if a PVPer follows which HAS HAPPENED. A raindance of carebears happen. Also the guy from what I have been told is if they are caught with any account doing it again. They are all banned. Fdev does try to hold mobius as to what it was created for. I respect it.

But there shouldnt be safe haven from a part of the game directed at giving context to PVP.

Removing that is what we have now with advantages with builds in solo and private vs open players. When Meta's happen like that there is a staleness to any game. Like League of legends, so there is a seasonal shake up. Where lots of things change.

I personally feel Elite needs that shake up. Instead of peaking at all time highs when credits are easy to get. Maybe people would see how deep the game really is and get involved in it. Because the mile wide inch deep thing upsets me. Because people are limited in every way possible, credits, modes, materials, engineers. Some of that is being fixed right now. They did a great job with engineers. I hope they do something with the modes and the credits too.

Like CQC people dont want to play it because its PVP. People dont play it cause its structure sucks.

After a certain point the same thing happens in the main game. There are too many walls and let downs to get through.

Im lucky to be here, if it wasnt for my group and the multiplayer part of this game. I wouldnt be here. Its why I bought it. Its what was advertised to me.

When you see that no where did it say solo and private would hold the advantage over open play. Why would anyone chose to be stopped in a competition against each other.

And if you cant realize that. Then you're doing it on purpose.

Stop it.

Solo and Private don't have an advantage over Open play. Period. This has been established over and over again. If anything PvP players have the "advantage" being able to initiate combat with unwilling PvE players in Open, however.

Circular arguments aren't going to stop being circular just because you wish it to be something else.

If you truly want to demonstrate numbers so Frontier listens to you- make a PG for PvP players and grow it. Just like Mobius did.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Solo and Private don't have an advantage over Open play. Period. This has been established over and over again. If anything PvP players have the "advantage" being able to initiate combat with unwilling PvE players in Open, however.

Circular arguments aren't going to stop being circular just because you wish it to be something else.

If you truly want to demonstrate numbers so Frontier listens to you- make a PG for PvP players and grow it. Just like Mobius did.

Yeah they do. You are punished for the builds youd take vs other commanders.

You gotta do what everyone else does to keep up. Its not optimal to do it in open period. You can complete any objective with only a FSD and no engineering on anything else removing the meat in which the engineers are in this game. This is late game super mechanics a new or even mid ranged player would even know about. They're too busy grinding ships, learning how power priorities work and so on.

We're talking about "late game" mechanics within Elite Dangerous, things that take weeks, if not months to complete. Trust me, the modes are being used intentionally here. Not Optionally. But Optimally.

Huge difference guys.

 

[Robert Maynard]

They may be being used intentionally by those that would normally engage in PvP to avoid a play-style that they would normally prefer - however, they're being used as intended by those that don't prefer PvP (as every single player can choose to play in a game mode that suits their tolerance for direct PvP).

 

[Mohrgan]

Oh gee, let me let the guys in that can stop me. Said no one ever. Mobius has rules against PVP like that. All theyd have to do is go there. Then if a PVPer follows which HAS HAPPENED. A raindance of carebears happen. Also the guy from what I have been told is if they are caught with any account doing it again. They are all banned. Fdev does try to hold mobius as to what it was created for. I respect it.

But there shouldnt be safe haven from a part of the game directed at giving context to PVP.

Removing that is what we have now with advantages with builds in solo and private vs open players. When Meta's happen like that there is a staleness to any game. Like League of legends, so there is a seasonal shake up. Where lots of things change.

I personally feel Elite needs that shake up. Instead of peaking at all time highs when credits are easy to get. Maybe people would see how deep the game really is and get involved in it. Because the mile wide inch deep thing upsets me. Because people are limited in every way possible, credits, modes, materials, engineers. Some of that is being fixed right now. They did a great job with engineers. I hope they do something with the modes and the credits too.

Like CQC people dont want to play it because its PVP. People dont play it cause its structure sucks.

After a certain point the same thing happens in the main game. There are too many walls and let downs to get through.

Im lucky to be here, if it wasnt for my group and the multiplayer part of this game. I wouldnt be here. Its why I bought it. Its what was advertised to me.

When you see that no where did it say solo and private would hold the advantage over open play. Why would anyone chose to be stopped in a competition against each other.

And if you cant realize that. Then you're doing it on purpose.

Stop it.

The only thing stopping you and yours from taking advantage of some perceived advantage in Solo/PG is your choice. You have perfect access to the 'Super Modes'. Use them.

The fact that your choice is to stay in open, and cry about, it is no one's problem but your own. Your Personal Gamer Ethics holds no sway over anyone else's.

The fact is FD advertises all three modes. That you weren't personally sat down and explained what that meant, is not a reason to expect the rest of us to be limited in our access to any part of the game. Take control of your game, and the access that is universally provided, and leave the rest of us to do the same.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

The only thing stopping you and yours from taking advantage of some perceived advantage in Solo/PG is your choice. You have perfect access to the 'Super Modes'. Use them.

The fact that your choice is to stay in open, and cry about, it is no one's problem but your own. Your Personal Gamer Ethics holds no sway over anyone else's.

The fact is FD advertises all three modes. That you weren't personally sat down and explained what that meant, is not a reason to expect the rest of us to be limited in our access to any part of the game. Take control of your game, and the access that is universally provided, and leave the rest of us to do the same.

You do end up using them. No reason not to. Thats why PVP has no place in Elite. Thats why the PVP community is small. Its not about the choice. Its about whats optimal.

Thats what META's are.

MOST

EFFICIENT

TACTICAL

ADVANTAGE

And thats whats going on with the modes. I firmly believe they should be used for personal progression only.

If you arent involved in PVP then it wouldnt effect you. PVP is PVP Indirect or Direct. Do it all, or dont do any of it.

Thats the only way to balance PVP in any game. Otherwise, PVP is for griefing. PVP and Griefing are two different things.

And thats why I fight for the mode stuff. Because I shouldnt be called a griefer for trying to play the game. After that the toxicity snowballs because of the no context.

SO this is what we got. The game is not healthy because of it. And thats unfair to everyone. PvEers PVPers or even the guys making the game.

I hate coming and asking for changes and pointing out the bad things. All about a game thats pretty amazing. Because they do some really awesome stuff too.

I wouldn't be here if I didnt care.

 

[Sylveria]

You do end up using them. No reason not to. Thats why PVP has no place in Elite. Thats why the PVP community is small. Its not about the choice. Its about whats optimal.

Thats what META's are.

MOST

EFFICIENT

TACTICAL

ADVANTAGE

And thats whats going on with the modes. I firmly believe they should be used for personal progression only.

If you arent involved in PVP then it wouldnt effect you. PVP is PVP Indirect or Direct. Do it all, or dont do any of it.

Thats the only way to balance PVP in any game. Otherwise, PVP is for griefing. PVP and Griefing are two different things.

And thats why I fight for the mode stuff. Because I shouldnt be called a griefer for trying to play the game. After that the toxicity snowballs because of the no context.

SO this is what we got. The game is not healthy because of it. And thats unfair to everyone. PvEers PVPers or even the guys making the game.

I hate coming and asking for changes and pointing out the bad things. All about a game thats pretty amazing. Because they do some really awesome stuff too.

I wouldn't be here if I didnt care.

No one has an issue with the fact that you "care".

What you need to understand is others "care" about their own game, too.

 

[Robert Maynard]

There's no requirement in this game to engage indirect PvP - the game modes make that abundantly clear.

There's no choice but to affect the BGS, Factions, etc. - indirect PvP is unavoidable (even if unintentional).

There's nothing written that mandates that any player engaging in indirect PvP *must* engage in direct PvP - no matter how fervent the desire of those that prefer direct PvP and wish to oppose those that don't.

How is it unfair to PvE players for them to have the advertised opportunity to both affect the shared galaxy state, especially as the game also offers two game modes where they can do that undisturbed by those players that prefer direct PvP?

.... and griefing is, by and large, a subset of direct PvP - in that it often involves one player attacking another in direct PvP.