The Star Citizen Thread v8

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MTBFritz

MTBFritz
Toumal said:
Were they really? I mean, by what metric did they lead anything, aside from crowdfunding success?
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Hype because actual leadership was only always an illusion. Back in 2012 they had nothing aside from a few promising screenshots and a trailer that they didnt make in the first place. Ever since expectations and dreamcrafting has been leagues ahead of actual development. The level of hype was so gigantic tho that even repeated failures to deliver in the first couple of years didnt do much to shake the foundation (apart from a few early naysayers/haters :D). 2017 was a wild year with lots of people "going on the barricade" and starting to talk less then nicely about Star Citizen. By now the project is left with a group of conditioned fanboys (according to Zettas vid link) who ll do anything and say anything to defend their baby. Sure there are still objective people who like it (cannot say if for real, might be acting) but the absolute majority of potential customers simply dont care anymore. Thats actually worse for CiG because when before they didnt have to do much to generate interest, where people were looking actively for information and running after them they are now in limbo with only a few dedicated diehards going through the motions and spending the time to stay current.

It just means that now Star Citizen has to deliver and be a good game on release in order to find enough buyers to become a success. So it gets harder for CiG to pull this off the more time goes by.

There were enough games in the past which had to cut corners or release "early" in order to manage to release at all. Explanations were taken as excuses but usually involve the same truth.....you dont have all the time in the world. Neither money nor time are infinite and if you are unable to keep up with the original timetable then you have to make some hard choices. I dont believe that "evil publishers" rush out games unfinished just to spite players and tarnish their own reputation. Its probably more a question of "how much longer is this going to take vs how much additional money will it cost us?".

While some of these past games have been horribly buggy and unoptimized on release they were at least games in their own regard. Star Citizen is still a tech demo which means even if money ran out today CiG could only cancel the game. After 6 years they havent managed to get a vertical slice ready. It seems like going for private funding was the only smart choice CRoberts ever did because with the way SC was done since 2012 a real publisher would ve given him the boot again long ago. I still say that backers hold power over them but its kind of a limited power because regardless if they stopped the funding over night backers will never have a say in how the project is run whereas a publisher would have the power to demand stuff. Backers only really have 2 choices......endure or give up. Theres nothing in between like a "forced early release" or "change of management"....options that a "real" publisher would have.
 

Navigare Necesse Est

Navigare Necesse Est
MTBFritz said:
Hype because actual leadership was only always an illusion. Back in 2012 they had nothing aside from a few promising screenshots and a trailer that they didnt make in the first place. Ever since expectations and dreamcrafting has been leagues ahead of actual development. The level of hype was so gigantic tho that even repeated failures to deliver in the first couple of years didnt do much to shake the foundation (apart from a few early naysayers/haters :D). 2017 was a wild year with lots of people "going on the barricade" and starting to talk less then nicely about Star Citizen. By now the project is left with a group of conditioned fanboys (according to Zettas vid link) who ll do anything and say anything to defend their baby. Sure there are still objective people who like it (cannot say if for real, might be acting) but the absolute majority of potential customers simply dont care anymore. Thats actually worse for CiG because when before they didnt have to do much to generate interest, where people were looking actively for information and running after them they are now in limbo with only a few dedicated diehards going through the motions and spending the time to stay current.

It just means that now Star Citizen has to deliver and be a good game on release in order to find enough buyers to become a success. So it gets harder for CiG to pull this off the more time goes by.

There were enough games in the past which had to cut corners or release "early" in order to manage to release at all. Explanations were taken as excuses but usually involve the same truth.....you dont have all the time in the world. Neither money nor time are infinite and if you are unable to keep up with the original timetable then you have to make some hard choices. I dont believe that "evil publishers" rush out games unfinished just to spite players and tarnish their own reputation. Its probably more a question of "how much longer is this going to take vs how much additional money will it cost us?".

While some of these past games have been horribly buggy and unoptimized on release they were at least games in their own regard. Star Citizen is still a tech demo which means even if money ran out today CiG could only cancel the game. After 6 years they havent managed to get a vertical slice ready. It seems like going for private funding was the only smart choice CRoberts ever did because with the way SC was done since 2012 a real publisher would ve given him the boot again long ago. I still say that backers hold power over them but its kind of a limited power because regardless if they stopped the funding over night backers will never have a say in how the project is run whereas a publisher would have the power to demand stuff. Backers only really have 2 choices......endure or give up. Theres nothing in between like a "forced early release" or "change of management"....options that a "real" publisher would have.
Click to expand...

Backers have no power. They can criticise and that's all. The stakes are owned by others and the multitude of companies does its best to smokebomb who owns what and where the assets are.
 

DLewth

DLewth
Navigare Necesse Est said:
Backers have no power. They can criticise and that's all. The stakes are owned by others and the multitude of companies does its best to smokebomb who owns what and where the assets are.
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The thing is, they don't.

MTBFritz said:
Hype because actual leadership was only always an illusion.
Click to expand...

Don't let DB hear you say that. Or Our Lord God (Gaben be thy name).

But in SC's case: Burn the false god with all thy fire and trolling. This weak sauce shall never pass the hallowed Gates of Steam.
 
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MTBFritz

MTBFritz
Navigare Necesse Est said:
Backers have no power. They can criticise and that's all. The stakes are owned by others and the multitude of companies does its best to smokebomb who owns what and where the assets are.
Click to expand...

If backers would stop funding Star Citizen today CiG would be forced to do something. That is some kind of power IMO. It cannot be utilized because the backer base is so fragmented and disorganized but power always lies with the money when it comes to companies and business.

After reading through the comments I gotta say its hilarious how little people know for sure after 6 years in a project that is praised to be the most open development ever. Opinions are based on various statements given by the devs and CR himself, often contradicting themselves or not saying much at all. The only constant seems to be "its going to come out" and "its gonna be awesome" despite having no base for either claim.
 

Navigare Necesse Est

Navigare Necesse Est
MTBFritz said:
If backers would stop funding Star Citizen today CiG would be forced to do something. That is some kind of power IMO. It cannot be utilized because the backer base is so fragmented and disorganized but power always lies with the money when it comes to companies and business.

After reading through the comments I gotta say its hilarious how little people know for sure after 6 years in a project that is praised to be the most open development ever. Opinions are based on various statements given by the devs and CR himself, often contradicting themselves or not saying much at all. The only constant seems to be "its going to come out" and "its gonna be awesome" despite having no base for either claim.
Click to expand...

Maybe. Maybe the whole thing would be abandoned then. Or sold off. It definitely would be harder to finish. It's a noble motive, but I don't see the backers ever doing a joint stopping of spending, unless maybe criminal investigations start. Those backers need to be hit hardest with the truth, and they are hardest to shake out of their dream.
 

MTBFritz

MTBFritz
Navigare Necesse Est said:
Maybe. Maybe the whole thing would be abandoned then. Or sold off. It definitely would be harder to finish. It's a noble motive, but I don't see the backers ever doing a joint stopping of spending, unless maybe criminal investigations start. Those backers need to be hit hardest with the truth, and they are hardest to shake out of their dream.
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can completely agree with this
 

Skizomeuh

Skizomeuh
MTBFritz said:
If backers would stop funding Star Citizen today CiG would be forced to do something. That is some kind of power IMO. It cannot be utilized because the backer base is so fragmented and disorganized but power always lies with the money when it comes to companies and business.
Click to expand...
Yet Roberts family and pals have already won. By cashing a lot more than they would've deserved.
 

DLewth

DLewth
Navigare Necesse Est said:
Maybe. Maybe the whole thing would be abandoned then. Or sold off. It definitely would be harder to finish. It's a noble motive, but I don't see the backers ever doing a joint stopping of spending, unless maybe criminal investigations start. Those backers need to be hit hardest with the truth, and they are hardest to shake out of their dream.
Click to expand...

Who'd buy it?

I mean, I'll slip them a grand for the current mailing list (you can't go wrong with a list of 10,000 gullible rubes) but the IP is a steaming pile of clichés with no back end.
 

[VR] Merkir

[VR] Merkir
DLewth said:
Who'd buy it?

I mean, I'll slip them a grand for the current mailing list (you can't go wrong with a list of 10,000 gullible rubes) but the IP is a steaming pile of clichés with no back end.
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Whale meat is quite sought after, and getting harder to find.
 
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Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Zetta said:
CIG's financials revealed (guessed).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdYS4VXvBoY
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I watched a bit of it, but it dragged on a while. I think he makes some reasonable assumptions. The main issue is, we will never know... or maybe we will, but let's see.


Overall, its anyone's guess what the $/hr/employee rate is for CIG, including of course all expenses such as marketing, third parties, other overheads, etc.

There is a value whereby CIG are losing more than they earn. Likewise there is a point where they are making more money than they spend.

I've said it before, its somewhere about the $1000 per hour mark. Below that, watch the funding chart, and soon enough you will see a ship sale.
 

Tippis

Tippis
Agony_Aunt said:
I've said it before, its somewhere about the $1000 per hour mark. Below that, watch the funding chart, and soon enough you will see a ship sale.
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I sure hope you either mean that per employee or that you forgot to add an additional zero, because otherwise, CIG is paying their highly sought-after software engineers salaries that don't quite measure up to a horrible-fast-food-job-but-not-even-trusted-with-flipping-burgers level position.
 

Ian Skippy

Ian Skippy
Agony_Aunt said:
I watched a bit of it, but it dragged on a while. I think he makes some reasonable assumptions. The main issue is, we will never know... or maybe we will, but let's see.


Overall, its anyone's guess what the $/hr/employee rate is for CIG, including of course all expenses such as marketing, third parties, other overheads, etc.

There is a value whereby CIG are losing more than they earn. Likewise there is a point where they are making more money than they spend.

I've said it before, its somewhere about the $1000 per hour mark. Below that, watch the funding chart, and soon enough you will see a ship sale.
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With +-450 people, and assuming the operating cost is above two bucks per hour per employee, that number seems off. ;)
 

Darkfyre99

Darkfyre99
Zetta said:
CIG's financials revealed (guessed).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdYS4VXvBoY
Click to expand...

Wow, that guy is seriously understimating CIG's "miscellaneous" expenses. I didn't see any mention of taxes (property, business, or payroll), costs of internet and server hosting, health insurance costs, or any of the other costs of doing business. At a minimum, the "miscellaneous" expenses would be about equal to payroll, if not higher. Yikes! :O

Fortunately for CIG, development on Star Citizen didn't start until late 2016... ;)
 

K-NINE

K-NINE
He also conveniently discounts the salaries that CRobbers, his family and friends have helped themselves to.
Not to mention he left out any mentioning of licencing fees. Then again, maybe they didn't pay 'em (just ask Crytek...)

Bottom line: he's a fanboy answering the call to placate any anxious whales whilst hoping that the higher-ups at CIG take note of his efforts and throw him a free Idris. Soon tm...
 

frostypaw

frostypaw
ajcrean said:
Bottom line: he's a fanboy answering the call to placate any anxious whales whilst hoping that the higher-ups at CIG take note of his efforts and throw him a free Idris. Soon tm...
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I was kinda grumpy I sat through much of it to confirm that. Kinda need warnings on videos here: "Look out though it's another hour of cuts from trailers and theorycasting masquerading as actual game news"
 

frostypaw

frostypaw
Asp Explorer said:
To be fair though - when did we have Star Citizen footage that wasn't cuts from trailers and theorycrafting? :D
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I'm on tenterhooks for the next videos from that uber-whale.

There have been quite a few, generally here's quite good at filtering out the noise. Ah remember the days of every ship video and boredgamer's re-re-re-re-summarisation of the word of the prophet being posted and lauded as if space games had never moved beyond Freelancer? Such fun we had rehashing arguments. Good times.
 
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