Notoriety is not going down. Outfitting (only) locked out?? Have I missed something fundamental?

[Aashenfox]

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Who are you, and what have you done to Aashen?
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First of all, you have that many friendly fire incidents? Interesting. Then, you decided to pull through and kill them, instead of retreating. Accidentally attacking somebody, then killing him when he defends himself is murder and the game now handles it correctly. It really fits well into the picture of "choices have consequences", which so many people asked for since a long time.
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In contrast to "having consequences", notoriety can be AFK-ed off, though. I've tested that during the beta, go afk for a while, relog (or apparently do other things to update your status) and you are fine. I actually consider that way too easy, it punishes normal players, while not affecting seal clubbers, who simply go AFK instead of logging out and are clean again the next day. Thus i still would prefer the idea of the mission system dropping a redemption mission into your inbox after the mentioned online time for reducing notoriety has passed. The mission can be a simple courier mission to another system and when completed would reduce your notoriety by one. (Rejecting the mission, on the other hand, would mean that you see yourself as career criminal and would add a delay till the next redemption mission would be offered. )
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On bounties being lost, there's been so many changes (and a wipe) in the last days, i am currently also not sure any more on the exact status. As i don't play as criminal, it'll most likely take a while till i have further insight there, i guess the forum will be able to provide better info on that soon, though.
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I'm still here. It's about being reasonable and fun.

When I committed those crimes, I was fully prepared to accept the consequences in the jurisdiction, but two things about the situation that I find irritating to the point of not wanting to play any more are; 1) Why on God's green earth would Mother Gaia, my basic home faction since I got the sol permit back in 2.icantremember, deny me services? Moreover where is the reasonableness of that, given the games prior history of keeping everything strictly jurisdictional. It is out of sync with the game and makes no sense. 2) Let's look a little closer at how I got those bounties. I am in a comp nav firing 5 multicannons at large and small targets. I'm a good shot, I have videos to prove it and I've been told by players that have beaten me that my aim is excellent. I pride myself on being careful in avoiding friendly fire incidents. The only thing I could have done extra would have been to kite my chosen targets away from the general melee before engaging, but who would do that, seriously? So yeh, 5 multicannons, careful or not, in 40 mins of fighting are gonna generate friendly fire incidents. Now let's look at the behavior of my 'murder victims'. I was not trying to murder them, if they had ignored me, they would have lived. So they were not defending themselves from attempted murder they were retaliating in kind to an attack, regardless of the wisdom of such. I put to you sir, that they committed suicide. What Imperial eagle pilot in his right mind would attack a fully engineered Corvette that obviously is involved in a battle. Sorry but IF YOU'RE RED, YOU'RE DEAD. At teh point they started shooting at me, and carried on despite the fact that I was obviously fighting someone else, I was defending myself from murder. If you're going to have such cruel and unusual punishment, you need supporting mechanisms to avoid the ai turning literally suicidal/psychotic, or give us a method of saying "sorry old chap, my bad, send me the repair bill!".

There is no reasonableness, if there was I wouldn't be here saying I'm so annoyed I don't even wanna play at the moment. I'm not one of those people who doesn't accept the consequences of his actions, hell I preach it to my kids every day, but this is a video game, it's supposed to be fun. This isn't fun.

Sorry for typos, on phone now

 

[Aashenfox]

This is how 3.0.3 works:
• If you have any bounties anywhere, or hot modules on your ship, you cannot access outfitting. At all. Anywhere. Even in places where you are not wanted.
• Notariety only ticks down while you are actually playing the game.
Here's what I think happened:
You incurred a bounty on one ship, changed ships, swapped hot modules into a clean ship, and now you're in a "clean" ship (hence your bounty seemingly disappeared) but you still have hot modules on it so you're locked out of outfitting.

You're exactly right, i did figure it out of on my own, but yes, that's it in a nutshell.

 

[Crank Larson]

It really is quite something to get to notoriety level 9 just from friendly fire incidents.

While I don't agree with being locked out of all outfitting everywhere (that is a 3.0.3 change), I don't really have much problem with the rest of it.

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

Firstly, let's be clear, I roleplay a good character, all my bounties are accidental, private datapoints or self defense against clean bounty hunters. The single large bounty you can see in the screenshots below is from a long Comp Nav session which had lots of friendly fire incidents and not wanting to leave the instance, I was forced to kill clean ships that accidentally got hit. I figured it's ok I'll sample the new CnP (normally I would have left the instance without killing any innocents, this was a kind of test of CnP). And between when that happened on Saturday afternoon, and saturday night, everything was going as planned, my notoriety went down from 9 to 8.

So, I had 8 notoriety on Saturday night. I haven't committed any crimes since then (except 2 planetary scans which were private, but they don't add to notoriety, right?). I log in on Sunday night (24 hours since bounty issued), plot a course to my favorite interstellar factors, and just had the thought to check if my notoriety was down. It was on 6. Seemed odd, so I transferred some ships (my T9 and another) to Daedalus and logged out (I'm waiting for the notoriety to go down to do some cargo missions to the jurisdiction in which I am wanted). Didn't play yesterday, log in today and I can't access outfitting (I could when I logged off), due to 'legal issues' apparently (see screenshot 1 in spoiler), but I don't have any bounties or fines with any factions in Sol (see screenshot 2) and I can access everything else just fine. Also, my crime stats seem to be totally borked (see screenshot 3).

Have I missed something about CnP and hot modules? I obviously have some hot modules in my ship and I stored some in outfitting on sunday. And why is my notoriety not going down? Am I being dense or do I need to file a bug report? Please feel free to ask me any questoins that might help us clear this up, I'm not here to complain, just understand...

It doesn't stop there... I did two planetary scans on sunday night, getting bounties of course, I think 500 bucks each. I couldn't pay them off I assume (I ahven't tried going to interstellar factors because I gather while my notoriety is 6 I can't pay them off, so I'm waiting for my notoriety to go down, which it isn't, in order to clear these bounties.) So now I go to the shipyard to switch to the courier and I see this notice (see screenshot 4) stating that this ship is wanted in another jurisdiction, but transfer is available to this station for a premium fee... ...er, the ship is already at teh station, I can switch to it and fly it. So what does this mean? And why would I have to pay a premium fee for a 1000cr bounty? And why would a 1000cr bounty stop me from accessing services in my home system where they adore me? It's like I logged into a different game today. What the holy hell is going on?

Spoiler

https://i.imgur.com/m1pMnmx.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/lYYfZBG.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/EzIfj6T.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/nEAwbK7.jpg

Notoriety goes down 1 level per 2 hours of ACTIVE gameplay. Time logged out doesn't count. Time spent sitting in a station doesn't count. Time spent doing things counts. Time spent drifting in deep space counts (I think). This active time can be spent in a different ship.

Also, as of 3.0.3 outfitting on hot ships is disabled. Everywhere. There's a whole separate thread on that. The Devs listened, and soon (next minor patch possibly), you'll be able to do outfitting on hot ships when in an Anarchy station. But right now, no outfitting anywhere.

 

[Aashenfox]

It really is quite something to get to notoriety level 9 just from friendly fire incidents.

While I don't agree with being locked out of all outfitting everywhere (that is a 3.0.3 change), I don't really have much problem with the rest of it.

I could live with the rest of it too, bounties being per ship is batshipinsane, but let's put that aside too, getting locked out of outfitting in my home station is completely ridiculous. As for the notoriety 9, see above. If you're red you're dead. They comitted suicide, that's definitely how mother gaia would see it if I could explain it to her. Even better if I could have apologised to my 'victim' this whole sorry CnP could have been totally avoided.

 

[Aashenfox]

It suddenly occurs to me that I've never come across another game that punishes you the way this one does, simply for playing it. You've got special ops missions, which when done, no matter what, are now going to lock you out of all outfitting for two hours if you only kill the target, and FOURTEEN hours (most games are finished in 14 hours, let's not lose our perspective here) if you kill the whole 6 man wing too (in the case of religious leaders, my preferred black ops targets)? Can't anyone see how completely insane that is? Now I'm never going to do those missions again, and I already only did them to independent factions who seemed 'evil'. Another mission leaves the board for me with 3.0.3.

Sad <expletive> Panda.

 

[Crank Larson]

This will help. Though not until next week.

 

[Aashenfox]

This will help. Though not until next week.

Yep, that will put a stop to my ragequitting. It definitely bears looking at further, glad they're open to discussion on it.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Firstly, let's be clear, I roleplay a good character, all my bounties are accidental, private datapoints or self defense against clean bounty hunters. The single large bounty you can see in the screenshots below is from a long Comp Nav session which had lots of friendly fire incidents and not wanting to leave the instance, I was forced to kill clean ships that accidentally got hit. I figured it's ok I'll sample the new CnP (normally I would have left the instance without killing any innocents, this was a kind of test of CnP). And between when that happened on Saturday afternoon, and saturday night, everything was going as planned, my notoriety went down from 9 to 8.

So, I had 8 notoriety on Saturday night. I haven't committed any crimes since then (except 2 planetary scans which were private, but they don't add to notoriety, right?). I log in on Sunday night (24 hours since bounty issued), plot a course to my favorite interstellar factors, and just had the thought to check if my notoriety was down. It was on 6. Seemed odd, so I transferred some ships (my T9 and another) to Daedalus and logged out (I'm waiting for the notoriety to go down to do some cargo missions to the jurisdiction in which I am wanted). Didn't play yesterday, log in today and I can't access outfitting (I could when I logged off), due to 'legal issues' apparently (see screenshot 1 in spoiler), but I don't have any bounties or fines with any factions in Sol (see screenshot 2) and I can access everything else just fine. Also, my crime stats seem to be totally borked (see screenshot 3).

Have I missed something about CnP and hot modules? I obviously have some hot modules in my ship and I stored some in outfitting on sunday. And why is my notoriety not going down? Am I being dense or do I need to file a bug report? Please feel free to ask me any questoins that might help us clear this up, I'm not here to complain, just understand...

It doesn't stop there... I did two planetary scans on sunday night, getting bounties of course, I think 500 bucks each. I couldn't pay them off I assume (I ahven't tried going to interstellar factors because I gather while my notoriety is 6 I can't pay them off, so I'm waiting for my notoriety to go down, which it isn't, in order to clear these bounties.) So now I go to the shipyard to switch to the courier and I see this notice (see screenshot 4) stating that this ship is wanted in another jurisdiction, but transfer is available to this station for a premium fee... ...er, the ship is already at teh station, I can switch to it and fly it. So what does this mean? And why would I have to pay a premium fee for a 1000cr bounty? And why would a 1000cr bounty stop me from accessing services in my home system where they adore me? It's like I logged into a different game today. What the holy hell is going on?

Spoiler

https://i.imgur.com/m1pMnmx.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/lYYfZBG.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/EzIfj6T.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/nEAwbK7.jpg

OK, so you made the DM mad at you. You're buying the pizza for the next three game sessions.

 

[Aashenfox]

OK, so you made the DM mad at you. You're buying the pizza for the next three game sessions.

Ha! Good one.

 

[the100thmonkey]

It suddenly occurs to me that I've never come across another game that punishes you the way this one does, simply for playing it. You've got special ops missions, which when done, no matter what, are now going to lock you out of all outfitting for two hours if you only kill the target, and FOURTEEN hours (most games are finished in 14 hours, let's not lose our perspective here) if you kill the whole 6 man wing too (in the case of religious leaders, my preferred black ops targets)? Can't anyone see how completely insane that is? Now I'm never going to do those missions again, and I already only did them to independent factions who seemed 'evil'. Another mission leaves the board for me with 3.0.3.

Sad <expletive> Panda.

It's my understanding the the spec-ops missions specifically state whether your notoriety will increase by doing them, and there are some, at least, where it doesn't.

 

[kofeyh]

Whilst I am finding the people who have asked for these changes, confused by the outcomes a bit funny, the current situation is all stations services globally are locked out in a hot ship. Frontier will be addressing some of the 'quirks' in a forthcoming patch. Presumably the same will occur for missions to clearly state if they will trigger notoriety and other glitches where outcomes are not specifically triggering correctly.

But the "why am I being persecuted?" commentary though is pretty funny. Why? you broke laws. So you're now a 'bad guy' not a 'good guy'; justification isn't a consideration. The law (in elite) has never cared about intention, or purpose; only ever action.

Sorry for your loss, OP. Best of luck getting that notoriety under control with all that 'justifiable' homicide (lol). o7

 

[Kaocraft]

You're exactly right, i did figure it out of on my own, but yes, that's it in a nutshell.

Glad you worked it all out and learned this valuable lesson. None of your newly-acquired and hard-won knowledge will apply after the next patch. And probably the next . . .

Have fun!

 

[Aashenfox]

It's my understanding the the spec-ops missions specifically state whether your notoriety will increase by doing them, and there are some, at least, where it doesn't.

I can appreciate that, what I find surprising is that to complete one of those, you may need to kill 7 ships, which means whatever ship you use will be unable to outfit for 14 hours, which is the entire duration of many triple A titles. It boggles the mind.

Glad you worked it all out and learned this valuable lesson. None of your newly-acquired and hard-won knowledge will apply after the next patch. And probably the next . . .

Have fun!

The only tinkg I learned, so we're clear, is that FD has no clue how to make a logical and reasonable CnP systm that promotes fun gameplay, instead of punishing creully and unusually, for minor mistakes, or completing missions that are supposed to be completed (see above). I'm still super annoyed, I just decided to stop ranting and do something else until my notoriety wears off, then the next time something happens that annoys me, I'll be back here piddling and moaning impotently until I feel better (again).

 

[Aashenfox]

Whilst I am finding the people who have asked for these changes, confused by the outcomes a bit funny, the current situation is all stations services globally are locked out in a hot ship. Frontier will be addressing some of the 'quirks' in a forthcoming patch. Presumably the same will occur for missions to clearly state if they will trigger notoriety and other glitches where outcomes are not specifically triggering correctly.

But the "why am I being persecuted?" commentary though is pretty funny. Why? you broke laws. So you're now a 'bad guy' not a 'good guy'; justification isn't a consideration. The law (in elite) has never cared about intention, or purpose; only ever action.

Sorry for your loss, OP. Best of luck getting that notoriety under control with all that 'justifiable' homicide (lol). o7

What commentary? I never asked why I was being persecuted or asked how to avoid the consequences, I simply said the consequences are utterly ridiculous, cos they are.

 

[Malkano]

See it’s posts like these that just shows how broken that Crime and punishment system is. The OP has 14 HOURS of just sitting in space or not able to enjoy the game because of a stupid system. No game should ever take a player out of the game and doing basic things in it for 14 RL hours. That’s just insane and it doesn’t even hurt their intended target in this case PVP people. Yet another case of a PVP fix screwing over the PVE side of tings.

Its a bad system they needs needs to be rethought. I know it stopped my enjoyment of the game dead.

 

[Sylow]

See it’s posts like these that just shows how broken that Crime and punishment system is. The OP has 14 HOURS of just sitting in space or not able to enjoy the game because of a stupid system. No game should ever take a player out of the game and doing basic things in it for 14 RL hours. That’s just insane and it doesn’t even hurt their intended target in this case PVP people. Yet another case of a PVP fix screwing over the PVE side of tings.

Its a bad system they needs needs to be rethought. I know it stopped my enjoyment of the game dead.

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Hmm. It's scary how much missinformation is going around here. Due to plenty of changes on this system here i might be wrong by now, but this is my understanding of how it actually works:
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1. Unlike what some people by now seem to paint, notoriety is not banning you from the game. You can still log in and play. (I am very certain that this is still true. )
2. Unlike what some people by now seem to think, you also still can launch even on a wanted ship. Your limitation is that as long as you fly that ship, you now actually are seen as a criminal. (I also have high confidence that this is true. )
3. You always can go to an anarchy system with a shipyard. Have a clean ship transported there or buy and set up a clean ship and you are good to go again. (This is how i remember it and nothing here makes me believe that it was changed. )
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So all in all, all you can not do while you have notoriety is to change the configuration of a ship which has a bounty on it. Now, if you do the illegal assassination mission, where you know that you will gain up to 6 notoriety, you can plan accordingly. (I have no idea where the seventh point of notoriety would come from. Every wing assassination mission currently has six enemies, and that's even disregarding the fact that you only have to destroy one of them, you're not required to kill them all. ) So if you plan to do criminal stuff on your ship, just have a ship spare and you are fine. Is it really that hard?
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That's even before considering that you can AFK the whole thing off, which in my eyes is the big weakness of the current implementation of notoriety.
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[Navigare Necesse Est]

I kinda facepalmed when reading what likely happened. I can't help but it just kinda fortifies my impression it's more about preventing people to play than the other way round. The grind, the overall progress, the tedious engineers and now this.

 

[Aashenfox]

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Hmm. It's scary how much missinformation is going around here. Due to plenty of changes on this system here i might be wrong by now, but this is my understanding of how it actually works:
.
1. Unlike what some people by now seem to paint, notoriety is not banning you from the game. You can still log in and play. (I am very certain that this is still true. )
2. Unlike what some people by now seem to think, you also still can launch even on a wanted ship. Your limitation is that as long as you fly that ship, you now actually are seen as a criminal. (I also have high confidence that this is true. )
3. You always can go to an anarchy system with a shipyard. Have a clean ship transported there or buy and set up a clean ship and you are good to go again. (This is how i remember it and nothing here makes me believe that it was changed. )
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So all in all, all you can not do while you have notoriety is to change the configuration of a ship which has a bounty on it. Now, if you do the illegal assassination mission, where you know that you will gain up to 6 notoriety, you can plan accordingly. (I have no idea where the seventh point of notoriety would come from. Every wing assassination mission currently has six enemies, and that's even disregarding the fact that you only have to destroy one of them, you're not required to kill them all. ) So if you plan to do criminal stuff on your ship, just have a ship spare and you are fine. Is it really that hard?
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That's even before considering that you can AFK the whole thing off, which in my eyes is the big weakness of the current implementation of notoriety.
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Dude, this AFKing is something I am NEVER going to do. Sit there with my 1080gtx burning rainforests for absolutely no reason except to compnesate for a poorly thought out game mechanism? You have GOT to be joking, I have more social conscience than that, and besides, I will rarely want to tie my pc up (even with Elite minimised) for 14 hours for that reason.

1. I don't see anyone saying they thought that is the case in the thread.
2. I don't see anyone believing you can't launch in a wanted ship?
3. I don't WANT to go to an Anarchy system with a shipyard, I want to not have to wait 14 hours in my home system to outfit my ship! That's mad!? The ENTIRE DURATION of a normal triple A action game. As a solution to the problem its attempting to solve, it is the equivalent of a nuclear strike on an anthill, and besides, it's COMPLETELY illogical that I should be denied services in a jurisdiction that I have never, ever committed a crime in, only ever been lauded as a great and trusted hero and ally, slayer of HUNDREDS of Pirate Lords and Terrorists, and I get no ability to explain my side of the story before I'm denied outfitting? Insane.
4. It;s more fun to kil all the 7 ships. This is a game, remember, it's supposed to be fun?

Don't treat me (as a thread participant, I know you aren't quoting me or speaking to me directly, but you know I was going to read this) like an idiot and don't put words in people's mouths either, we usually see eye-to-eye on MANY things, I'm sure that's what prompted you to say 'where is aashen', so come on man, if you want to talk about it with me, let's talk about it, I consider you a forum friend, leave the unhelpful blanket generalisations out though please.

This is contrary to the spirit and ethos of the game so far and is an overmeasured reaction to griefing. Nobody needs to give me that horse sht about improving criminal gameplay, cos criminal gameplay still sucks giant hairy donkey balls, it's just a harsh punishment system that has now been added in order to make griefing a lot more inconvenient. Well, it's made the whole game a lot more inconvenient. I was always 'careful', I made the occasional mistake, and I paid the consequences, now I'm going to have to be 'super' careful. And if I fail at that one day, I'll be ranting here in the forums again about how idiotic it is, you can bet on it.

 

[Schlack]

Have you tried a bit jumping?

-Notoriety does decay while docked, however it will not update in your statistics until you undock and jump to supercruise.

from here

If it is supposed to it doesn't, at least not consistently.