Crime does NOT fit the punishment

[lenna]

In PvP only or PvE as well?

According to the release notes, that is PvP only - to discourage seal clubbing.

 

[Brrokk]

If I get a fine leaving a station I always turn back and pay it. Anything else is too much hassle down the line.

 

[CAPT. Ho Chi Minge]

Players are themselves heavily conflicted in what they want. Let's be honest here, most of players don't want any kind of punishment. They don't want rules. Thus real life like C&P will feel like mess, because that's how everything looks like to disappointed and frustrated people.

Learn to live with fact that C&P will stay and it will bite.



Not in fundamental way. So far most of planned changes have gone in already. Only question is those other bounties besides murder.

Oh dont misunderstand my stance , im all for crime and punishment but the punishment must fit the crime and i believe most players are for this also. I Just have to laugh when the current system is described as simple , clean and easy when the patchnotes themselves have a myriad of reasons and bulletpoints for triggering a fine or bounty but i digress ... it will take shape the more its tweaked and this will happen over time as issues are brought to light.

 

[DaveB]

In an empire system i was given a 600 cr bogus fine leaving dock. Was leaving system so i didn't pay it.
500 ly later at sothis i bought some modules and my NOW-Illegal mods went into storage.
This is an independent fed station why would they screw me over a 600cr fine?
I couldn't use the mods a without cleaning the??? i had to pay 809,000 for the shield gen alone.

After i paid the fine my ship was cleared BUT the stored mods were still ILLEGAL and had to pay 850000 to clean up a 600cr fine.

Is this supposed to work like this

if your fine was actually a fine and not a bounty, an unpaid fine shouldn't make your ship and its modules hot. Next time you are "in town" you just pay it before using any services at stations run by the faction that issued it.

A bounty, on the other hand, with you "wanted" and getting shot at, THAT makes your ship and modules hot. You should have stopped by one of the many factors you must have passed in your 500ly of travel and sorted it.

 

[Ethaidan]

The first question is - does the current system work as intended?My personal opinion is twofold.
Still I can't see the point why the weapon is punished instead of the person who used it.

Seriously? Why is this still a mystery for some? The simple answer: Because people.

If the crime/bounty is tied to the cmdr... commit crimes and collect bounties in expensive engineered cutter... swap to stock sidewinder and let authorities kill you... insignificant rebuy, clean record, swap back to clean expensive engineered cutter like nothing ever happened.

 

[Globusdiablo]

...Is this supposed to work like this

In other news, a man yelling at a telephone:

 

[Auronio]

Seriously? Why is this still a mystery for some? The simple answer: Because people.

If the crime/bounty is tied to the cmdr... commit crimes and collect bounties in expensive engineered cutter... swap to stock sidewinder and let authorities kill you... insignificant rebuy, clean record, swap back to clean expensive engineered cutter like nothing ever happened.

Siriusly.

Cause tying the punishment to a ship is as unrealistic/unreasonable as allowing a CMDR losing his bounties by being killed in a cheap ship.

The simple solution would have been - tie the bounty to the CMDR and you have to pay it regardless of which ship you are killed in. Just added to the next rebuy screen.
That way no criminal CMDR could hide his activity flying a clean ship.

Anyway it is what it is.

Correction from my statement above.
It looks like being on a killing spree IS EXPENSIVE now.
Currently testing versus a hostile faction in one of our systems and it looks like with every kill the bounty is increased by a factor, don't get yet what that factor is but from a few 10k you soon go up to 982k per kill.

o7

 

[Stigbob]

Siriusly.

Cause tying the punishment to a ship is as unrealistic/unreasonable as allowing a CMDR losing his bounties by being killed in a cheap ship.

The simple solution would have been - tie the bounty to the CMDR and you have to pay it regardless of which ship you are killed in. Just added to the next rebuy screen.
That way no criminal CMDR could hide his activity flying a clean ship.

Anyway it is what it is.

Correction from my statement above.
It looks like being on a killing spree IS EXPENSIVE now.
Currently testing versus a hostile faction in one of our systems and it looks like with every kill the bounty is increased by a factor, don't get yet what that factor is but from a few 10k you soon go up to 982k per kill.

o7

The idea is that you can have a clean ship and a naughty ship, so your not locked in either playstyle. And killing spree's get expensive the more you outgun your target the more expensive they get. It also killed the suicidewinder bounty exploit.

All good really.

 

[Wyaston Hypatia]

The idea is that you can have a clean ship and a naughty ship, so your not locked in either playstyle. And killing spree's get expensive the more you outgun your target the more expensive they get. It also killed the suicidewinder bounty exploit.

All good really.

I'm not a fan of this clean ship & criminal ship with an always clean commander (Notoriety just doesn't cut it). The logic is flawed, to me.

Also the suicidewinder is a red herring - They could have fixed it within a commander=criminal system if they wanted to, they have just taken a different direction.

However as I play clean (nearly) all the time, in the end it doesn't have a large affect on me.

 

[Stigbob]

I'm not a fan of this clean ship & criminal ship with an always clean commander (Notoriety just doesn't cut it). The logic is flawed, to me.

Also the suicidewinder is a red herring - They could have fixed it within a commander=criminal system if they wanted to, they have just taken a different direction.

However as I play clean (nearly) all the time, in the end it doesn't have a large affect on me.

If they'd gone with bounty on the player then surely the suicidewinder would still work, tagging the ship was the whole point of that I think.

 

[GUVII]

A real resolution to these problems, is to resolve the overhanging issue with the re-buy system. It is obviously used for different reasons, other than it's intended purpose, like trolling others, and griefing. Ill be honest, a lower re-buy would also promote more flexibility in both PvE, and PvP environments in the game. Would put less work on the so called 'grind' in this game which exist... don't bother denying it, and encourage people to use their ships more.

 

[NecasekO]

If they'd gone with bounty on the player then surely the suicidewinder would still work, tagging the ship was the whole point of that I think.

As I see it, the underlying issue is that fines and bounties are ridiculously cheap and the current C&P system relies on ship rebuy as the real financial punishment. So it needs to tie bounties to ships.

If fines had more reasonable values (i.e. millions of Cr for high ranked players flying expensive ships), this would be much less of an issue. For some reason fine values are stuck since version 1.0 while the value of money has shifted by orders of magnitude.

 

[Wyaston Hypatia]

If they'd gone with bounty on the player then surely the suicidewinder would still work, tagging the ship was the whole point of that I think.

IF FD came out and said 'there was no way we could think of and code that would stop the suicidewinder', then I'd be more likely to accept that point.
I don't think that's so, they have chosen to go with ships for gameplay reasons, and because they 'like it'.
All the penalties that are applied to ships now could be applied to commanders so it wouldn't matter which ship they died in the cost would still be great if they had been bad.

 

[Stigbob]

As I see it, the underlying issue is that fines and bounties are ridiculously cheap and the current C&P system relies on ship rebuy as the real financial punishment. So it needs to tie bounties to ships.

If fines had more reasonable values (i.e. millions of Cr for high ranked players flying expensive ships), this would be much less of an issue. For some reason fine values are stuck since version 1.0 while the value of money has shifted by orders of magnitude.

We had that on launch, it was first huge cash exploit. You just get together with a mate clear your bounties and get hyper rich. They had to nerf it due to rampant cheating.

IF FD came out and said 'there was no way we could think of and code that would stop the suicidewinder', then I'd be more likely to accept that point.
I don't think that's so, they have chosen to go with ships for gameplay reasons, and because they 'like it'.
All the penalties that are applied to ships now could be applied to commanders so it wouldn't matter which ship they died in the cost would still be great if they had been bad.

They have stopped the suicidewinder though, with gameplay code.

As for tagging it to CMDR's see my answer above, and bear in mind that the rebuy penalty does exactly this without being as easily exploitable.

 

[AveCandido]

Question, A commanders can be in a system to kill several ships NPC and Players (example you kill 10 clean NPCs and 5 Clean players) jump to a low security system pay fines and return again to the previous clean system, or to another system and kill again?

Well do not be very clear, what happens, if a commander every two hours can clear his name and clean his ship and kill again the next day.

The notoriety avoids cleaning the boat even after spending a real time or playing time?

Thanks for your time.

 

[lenna]

Question, A commanders can be in a system to kill several ships NPC and Players (example you kill 10 clean NPCs and 5 Clean players) jump to a low security system pay fines and return again to the previous clean system, or to another system and kill again?

Well do not be very clear, what happens, if a commander every two hours can clear his name and clean his ship and kill again the next day.

The notoriety avoids cleaning the boat even after spending a real time or playing time?

Thanks for your time.

As I understand it from the Release Notes, that is two hours per point of notoriety and the higher the notoriety the higher the baseline PvE bounty and additional PvP penalties are for subsequent crimes.

Notoriety and Murder

• Commanders gain a ’notoriety’ rating, a value between zero and ten.
• Notoriety increases by one whenever a Commander commits a murder crime.
• Notoriety decays one unit every 2 hours of time when you’re logged in the game back down to zero.
• For each level of notoriety, murder bounty values are increased by a fraction of the perpetrator's rebuy cost - the higher the notoriety, the bigger the fraction.
• If the victim is a Commander (a player rather than an NPC) then you pay 10% percent per point of notoriety of the difference between your base rebuy cost, factoring in engineering, and the victim’s rebuy cost. If your cost is less than your victim’s, this will be zero. This is to de-incentivise destroying smaller ships than your own. This number, as well as others in the Beyond update, will be revisited and tweaked after launch to make sure the game is as balanced and enjoyable as possible.
• In addition, Commanders that are destroyed have their rebuy cost reduced based on the notoriety level of their murderer - the more notorious the assassin, the bigger the discount on rebuy cost for the victim.
• Notoriety is linked directly to the Commander, regardless of which ship they fly in.
• Any Notoriety means the interstellar factors cannot clear your fines or bounties.
• Notoriety is not increased for killing mission targets.

At 10 clean (off-mission) kills the bounty scale is maxed out as I understand it from the release notes - 20 game time hours later after the last crime is committed (with a notoriety of 10) the bounty can be cleared. That means 20 hours of in-game "clean" playing (idle or otherwise) between killing sprees if you want to pay off the bounty.

Where fines and lesser bounty crimes are concerned, they can be paid off immediately.

 

[lenna]

That's most likely because FD has long ago realized that there is no such thing like "reasonable values". Therefor the gap between fresh and established players is way too high: While for new players the first million is a true accomplishment, for the rich Rockefeller it's just chump change. And if you now try to adjust these sums to the affected player (by what? total time playing? total assets? trade rank? I could easily find some snares with all of them) it's getting complicated, something FD at least tries to avoid.

That is what the notoriety is for - scaling the murder penalties - it is a focused metric to ensure that the penalties for murder are scaled more appropriately.

Go around committing crimes in a Cobra and the penalties may not feel as crippling as if you did the same in say a Cutter/Corvette/Anaconda.

 

[Troy_McClure]

'Punishment does not fit the crime'??? I know - English grandma is hard!

 

[Ethaidan]

I'm not a fan of this clean ship & criminal ship with an always clean commander (Notoriety just doesn't cut it). The logic is flawed, to me.

I disagree - I find the logic completely acceptable. When I am flying a black gunship and fire upon and destroy another ship, how does anyone actually know who was piloting the vessel? Done properly... commit crimes in your batFAS, hide it in an anarchy cave, fly back to high security space in a nice white Clipper, and go about your business as a respectable billionaire. The authorities are left looking for a ship (a non-descript firefly that ran from the authorities), not a specific commander (yet). In the grand scheme of clever, well organised, multi-miliionaire/billionaire criminals... hot ships make perfect sense to me. Plus, as a game mechanism, it allows more people to dabble in criminal activities while maintaining the ability to relatively easily slip back into a different role.

With this in mind, I have more of an issue with instantly assigning notoriety to a named commander, but willingly accept this as a necessary game mechanism that provides some measure of lingering pain to punishments and rewards certain types of criminals, sort of, until a more refined system is developed.

 

[lenna]

With this in mind, I have more of an issue with instantly assigning notoriety to a named commander, but willingly accept this as a necessary game mechanism that provides some measure of lingering pain to punishments and rewards certain types of criminals, sort of, until a more refined system is developed.

What kind of "more refined system" are you thinking of?

To make it more complex than it currently is would possibly (needlessly) involve an over-engineered/overly-complex solution IMO. The current system is simple and elegant if a bit gamey in nature.