Want to know why Braben never goes on stream? I'm willing to bet he'd be incredibly excited about everything and end up spoiling all the things! xD
I think I've realised what the problem with ED is.. Braben has lost interest and moved on?
- Thread starter Cosmos
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You don't see years of predominantly unbalanced, unused, dead-end developments?
Powerplay? - Has this in anyway lived up to what it could and should offer?
CQC? - Can this not be considered a huge wasted opportunity to instead onward develop the core game?
Engineers V1 and now V2? - What has this truly added to the game but a needless upper teir of performance, in truth risking balancing issues to PvE and PvP?
Generation Ships? - When's the last time you went to one? How many CMDRs have visited one or less?
Guardian Bases? - So CMDRs visited a base and then what? Indeed how many CMDRs never even went to one?
Thargoid Bases? - So CMDRs visited a base and then what? Indeed how many CMDRs never even went to one?
Mega Ship gameplay? - How much time have you spent opening cargo hatches and the like at Mega Ships?
Multicrew? - This was thanks to (IMHO) years of wasted opportunities to improve core gameplay. Gameplay depth & mechanics have hardly moved on at all, so is it suprisiing that when trying to divide up already paper thin gameplay and mechanics, what's left is dull?
Thargoid Invasion? - FD new the Thargoid invasion was coming for years, and yet they dedicated development effort to things like the above. I it find hard to think of virtually anything added to gameplay that can be leveraged to then be used to make the Thargoid invasion more interesting. eg: Had CQC instead created fighter tours of duty attack/defending locations in the core game, that could have been leveraged for Thargoid related missions/CGs. Imagine if this invasion was intergrated as a type of Powerplay view. Imagine if we have full on convoy escort and protect missions. Imagine if we have full on station blockade mechanics with Thargoids trying to enforce a blockade and CMDRs trying to break/run it. etc etc...
In truth, I think far far too many design decisions/choices come down to:-
1) How did that even get a go ahead given?
2) How did it get designed like that?
I really do see the last couple of years as missed opportunity after missed opportunity. My fear is Q4 of this year - with FD declaring they are now improving core gameplay - simply proves to be yet more questionable design and demonstrates FD don't really want to truly improve gameplay depth, or the individuals involved, can't.
Ultimately, for me Mutlicrew and the Thargoid invasion just underlines years of design decisions that instead of investing in core gameplay, has instead all too often just bolted on thin dead end gameplay. I mentioned this very issue a year ago! - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...is-now-coming-back-to-bite-ED-in-the-boosters!
Last Hope
I'm hoping Q4 of this year shows FD turning a new leaf with ED. I'm hoping to see really interesting deep mechanics. For example with mining we get some nice involved mechanics for mining itself, backed up with actual stateful resource hot spots (see "Improve Mining" in my sig) to give mining some worth and also integrate exploration gameplay, and even with Fleet Carriers involved in the mechanics potentially even to bind in trading.
And even if none of that pans out, I'm still hoping the Q4 DLC is atmostpheric landings to at least I get get a few hours gameplay from exploration.
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Again, I was only referring to their open and frequent communication with the community. Not the game dev process itself. Is that too hard to understand? Or does just mentioning SC trigger some kind of Pavlovian response in you?
It's UK, you are required to pay overtime pay and devs have to agree to work on weekend. Never have heard him to actually make fun of that, he has actually spent most of weekends prior launch in office as I have heard - as did rest of team.
He mentioned it as an example of challenge you would come up just adding NPC avatars around station. And looking back at the game, can you really blame him? Players gonna be players. Said that, I hope that's something they might address soon as I think station security is good enough to handle any murderous thugs.
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Nope, but it sure is bait people like you like to throw out, isn't it.
Fully agree
Not sure if I follow.
Michael Brookes, the producer of Jurassic World Evolution? I think he talks about JWE now, surprisingly enough.
Rafe Zetter
Banned
Sorry I'm going to have to jump in here, I was trying so very hard not to, but that was my particular line you just crossed.
DB didn't keep the "passion alive" for the game at all, anyone who knows the facts around the game franchise since it's first inception, will know that that statement, sir, is premium grade Kaka.
If you truly thought that DB was doing that - why did the elite franshise go dead for 20 years?
If you beleive the "I was waiting for the computer industry to catch up with what I wanted" and "now was the time" lines that he gave during the KS - then you are truly an idiot.
"Now was the time" was only true for a statement: "now was the time to cash in on all the players of the original series who are now grown up, presumably have some spare cash, and are so used to looking at me and the elite franchise through rose tinted glasses that they will pony up the dough, that others would not, INCLUDING MYSELF and million dollar publishers - to make the game - and I'm only able to do that now because crowdfunding has clawed it's reputation to a point whereby it's become accepted by many as "legit" and not another word for "I'm ripping you off and running away"."
There have been thousands of games, including SPACE SIMS in the intervening period that had huge playerbases - it has been proven time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and - and again that graphical quality does not a quality game make.
And proven yet again with Elite Dangerous. (sadly)
IF DB had truly wanted to revive the Elite franshise, he could have - to a welcoming audience, at ANY POINT in the last 20 years.
However he didn't, because the publishers with the money were just not hungry enough for another entry into that particularly niche market, DB's company was a VERY minor player in the gaming world having had no major "hit" for many many years; thus DB had nowhere near enough business clout to convince publishers another foray into the elite world would be a financial success, despite thier lack of enthusiams for the genre.
If crowdfunding wasn't a thing, Elite Dangerous the game wouldn't exist - and may never have existed, because until the KS - Sir DB the man, and Frontier Developments the company had neither the money nor the power to make it so.**
No sir.
FANS kept the franchise passion alive - with this forum and many others existing long before ED was announced.
With things like the game OOlite, fanmade with ZERO input from FDev (to my knowledge), fans making conversions for Frontier E II and FFE to run on modern PC's with occasionally graphical improvements.
For the majority of those 20 years, the elite franchise was essentially "abandonware" and downloadable from 3rd party sites FOR FREE, with no "cease and desist" order from either DB or FDev.
That's not the actions of someone sitting patiently like some zen master - waiting so VERY PATIENTLY, for 20 years (assuming he didn't die first) until the computer industry as a whole caught up with where DB thought it should be to remake "Elite".
** (that's also the very core of why some of us feel "entitled" to get what we paid for - and express it in various ways on this and other forums - FDev is now a multimillion pound company, and DB + shareholders are now a millionaires, PURELY because of the KS, the fans that had the passion for the franchise, and the money they gave to allow them to create that game - and NO OTHER REASON.
Trust me I know - if you have a true "passion" for something you find a way, and in 20 years you will definitely find a way - because "passion" dicates it.
Everything else is just "meh" take it or leave it - so he left it - for 20 years.
Edit for typo's I was in a rush to get to work.
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Well... Where to start?
A community manager (Any community manager) has to take the good with the bad. E-D while (in my opinion) graphically astounding, code wise, is a mess. If the CM interacts with the base, then they get shot down, continually. No CM can be expected to take the brunt of the playerbase unhappiness.
In relation to SC. SC does a great job of vapourware marketing. I honestly expect the plug to be pulled at some stage and for there to be a lot of unhappy donators.
Back to E-D. While it has it's problems, it also has it's fanbase. I for example, fall in both camps. As a developer for 30 years, the bugs and lack of cohesiveness astounds me. But on the other hand, the graphics are amazing. I believe that FDev are over their heads with E-D. They (it appears to me) started down a road, to get quick bucks to finance the rest of the game, with a badly designed base. They then bolted on more badly designed mechanics and it has grown into something they have little control over. There was no balance of ranks or credits. That has turned out be a huge stumbling block.
Where the CM could do better (again in my opinion) is post at least monthly updates on what is being developed, what we can expect.
At the end of the day, FDev have to decide what they're going to develop in the next quarter and further beyond. Players want to know what it is. For sure, there'll be unhappy campers. But, once the decision is made, people need to know and be kept updated.
The only real engagement I see on these forums is toxic levels of Fanboism or the opposite. And just for the record, I help on both sides
As an example; We recently got a great addition in the new KWS. But it lacks any way to know where to go to redeem the bounties. All that's needed is a post 'hey guys we're aware of this, we're working on something' or ' hey guys sorry, but all development resources are tied up with other stuff'. What we got was, silence.
@Eagleboy - it is difficult to talk to someone that does not see a difference between game copies and what they have in the report as sales units. Also, with a person that does not seem to understand that the money from those sales (whatever cryptically labelled they are) are already invested into the company and other projects and I was talking about ONGOING revenue generated by the game.
As head of a big company he can't be in the forefront every day no more than Bill Gates was unless there was a huge release.
Elite is still moving forward and I'm sure atmospheric landings and space legs will come when the tech is there OR everyone has upgraded to a level where it's feasible and the 1-3% who don't have powerful enough tech get left behind. From 1984 to now Elite has come a long way and so has computers so in ten years who knows where it will be
EDIT: I do agree that every patch with its bugs seems to be a hastily rushed bolt on mechanic that does indeed break something else. Maybe FDEV should take a step back and look at the galaxy as a whole and plan what to do that hastily trying to implement it and it all comes crashing down. As a software developer I do tend to take planning to an art form as anything less would just cause so much more issue's in the future that it's not worth it, my game has been in planning for years (whilst working on other projects) and only now is it coming together
The old adage of programmers is "if you can make it modular as spaghetti code becomes more and more of a mess the more spaghetti you add to it".
Elite is still moving forward and I'm sure atmospheric landings and space legs will come when the tech is there OR everyone has upgraded to a level where it's feasible and the 1-3% who don't have powerful enough tech get left behind. From 1984 to now Elite has come a long way and so has computers so in ten years who knows where it will be
EDIT: I do agree that every patch with its bugs seems to be a hastily rushed bolt on mechanic that does indeed break something else. Maybe FDEV should take a step back and look at the galaxy as a whole and plan what to do that hastily trying to implement it and it all comes crashing down. As a software developer I do tend to take planning to an art form as anything less would just cause so much more issue's in the future that it's not worth it, my game has been in planning for years (whilst working on other projects) and only now is it coming together
The old adage of programmers is "if you can make it modular as spaghetti code becomes more and more of a mess the more spaghetti you add to it".
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![[VR] Zakk](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/64/64104.jpg?1587234982){kind=avatar}
I doubt that David has lost interest in ED. Less communication can have a variety of other reasons. Being busy with implementing new features, for example.
Also, I feel that this forum has reached a stage where productive communication has become almost impossible. The amount of posts is overwhelming, and at least for me it has become increasingly difficult to find the useful and inspiring posts among the flood of complainers, or even doomsayers.
Despite all the shortcomings ED still may suffer from, I still have a lot of faith in FD. Their development approach has always supplied me with a game that I enjoyed enough to spend countless hours with it.
Even if they halted development today and switched off the servers, I would still feel that I have received outstanding value for the little money I have spent on ED. And while many here will probably cry outrage, I for one would not mind at all to pay another $30-40 for another season pass, even if that season would not bring groundbreaking new features.
I still feel that ED has a lot of unused potential, but I am also grateful for FD providing the best space sim to date, hands down. Yes, maybe one day ED wil have to stand back behind SC, or even Infinity Battlescape. But, as a matter of fact, that day hasn't come yet. And if it will ever come remains to be seen.
Also, I feel that this forum has reached a stage where productive communication has become almost impossible. The amount of posts is overwhelming, and at least for me it has become increasingly difficult to find the useful and inspiring posts among the flood of complainers, or even doomsayers.
Despite all the shortcomings ED still may suffer from, I still have a lot of faith in FD. Their development approach has always supplied me with a game that I enjoyed enough to spend countless hours with it.
Even if they halted development today and switched off the servers, I would still feel that I have received outstanding value for the little money I have spent on ED. And while many here will probably cry outrage, I for one would not mind at all to pay another $30-40 for another season pass, even if that season would not bring groundbreaking new features.
I still feel that ED has a lot of unused potential, but I am also grateful for FD providing the best space sim to date, hands down. Yes, maybe one day ED wil have to stand back behind SC, or even Infinity Battlescape. But, as a matter of fact, that day hasn't come yet. And if it will ever come remains to be seen.
verminstar
Banned
I think if DB had lost interest in his baby, the servers would be shut down and he would be neck deep in coding another elite game, and this forum wouldnt exist fer this conversation to be taking place.
Its a growing and expanding company with many different avenues of deveopment...the boss cant be there to personally nursemaid the players in every single game they develope, and considering how confrontational and hostile many here are, can ye really blame the guy fer not wanting to talk to the great unwashed horde?
Really cosmo? This is todays complaint? Bash DB day...its actually quite catchy when ye say it fast ^
Its a growing and expanding company with many different avenues of deveopment...the boss cant be there to personally nursemaid the players in every single game they develope, and considering how confrontational and hostile many here are, can ye really blame the guy fer not wanting to talk to the great unwashed horde?
Really cosmo? This is todays complaint? Bash DB day...its actually quite catchy when ye say it fast ^
Have to agree with NeilF - never thought that would happen! I am a massive Elite fan. But I said right back when I learned about engineers and crafting that I strongly felt that the game was losing its way if it wanted to remain true to the Elite concept and that DB should take back creative control from the design team who clearly did not share the same vision or perhaps simply did not understand it. While I do have a lot of respect for Sandro I am afraid that his design decisions are way off the mark - in my view. He is ruining the vision and taking it in directions that I do not feel is right. Of course this is subjective and is only my opinion so no point in attacking me on that basis - you have the right to disagree and you will get no argument from me on that. But I have to blame Sandro directly because of his position - Lead Designer. If you are going to be the boss then you have to take responsibility for the decisions made because these are made in the name of that position - a hat that he wears.
To an extent I have to agree with Rafe as well - although perhaps not as strongly as he seems to feel. I think that there is some credence to DB's statement regarding computer capability being able to fulfil his vision only recently. One thing I think we all agree on is the visual aspect of the game. But what we also don't know the details of, is his battle with Ian Bell and the previous publishers who probably retain, or retained, some rights in the franchise. I suspect that there may have been some animosity and perhaps a little obstructionism happening there but DB is too much of a gentleman to put that in the public arena. All this has probably taken quite some time to resolve so let's not be too harsh on him in that regard. But I would like to see him get back to basics - perhaps he could take some time off from his CEO role which I am sure takes up 110% of his time.
To an extent I have to agree with Rafe as well - although perhaps not as strongly as he seems to feel. I think that there is some credence to DB's statement regarding computer capability being able to fulfil his vision only recently. One thing I think we all agree on is the visual aspect of the game. But what we also don't know the details of, is his battle with Ian Bell and the previous publishers who probably retain, or retained, some rights in the franchise. I suspect that there may have been some animosity and perhaps a little obstructionism happening there but DB is too much of a gentleman to put that in the public arena. All this has probably taken quite some time to resolve so let's not be too harsh on him in that regard. But I would like to see him get back to basics - perhaps he could take some time off from his CEO role which I am sure takes up 110% of his time.
I very much doubt he has lost interest.
But there again, some people would believe it even if DB entered the thread to state that he was still very much interested. I dare say some people would quote him and effectively say "No, you're not!"
People believe what they want to believe.
But there again, some people would believe it even if DB entered the thread to state that he was still very much interested. I dare say some people would quote him and effectively say "No, you're not!"
People believe what they want to believe.
David Brabens whole career and probably passion is relying on Elite since more then 30 yrs. Hard to believe he suddenly lost interest.
As a CEO he has the task to build further on the Elite brand success and to make Frontiers buisness sustainable and profitable, hence he has to focus on other products, too. It is just his job. I actually like his professionalism in giving the main stage to the people actually developing the game and to his commuication staff. There are other examples in the industry where the studio director is always pushing himself in the center of attention, small minds IMHO. David is always present where he needs to be, e.g. at main events like the Frontier Expo. On this occasions you can see and hear that the fire still burns.
As a CEO he has the task to build further on the Elite brand success and to make Frontiers buisness sustainable and profitable, hence he has to focus on other products, too. It is just his job. I actually like his professionalism in giving the main stage to the people actually developing the game and to his commuication staff. There are other examples in the industry where the studio director is always pushing himself in the center of attention, small minds IMHO. David is always present where he needs to be, e.g. at main events like the Frontier Expo. On this occasions you can see and hear that the fire still burns.
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I have two of those jumpers. One old and baggy and one new this Christmas.
I like them both for different reasons.
I think there is an ED analogy in there some where.
I like them both for different reasons.
I think there is an ED analogy in there some where.
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