Exploration Ship Choices will be taking an arrow to the knee in Update 3.1

[NW3]

Mengy, after taking a second look at your list of ships and slots in the OP, it seems to me that (as a stop-gap measure), the simplest (short term) solution would be to add 1-3 size 1 slots to most of the ships. Certainly, every "explorer" ship should have at least 2 size 1 slots for the 2 scanners, more if FD intends to add additional size 1 exploration scanners/tools (although those would be best implemented as something that fits in a utility slot).

 

[Jaiotu]

Having flown wiped one of my accounts to fly the loaner Sidewinder to Sagittarius A* and then to Shinrarta Dhezra (that trip on the limited jump range is enough to earn you Elite in Exploration) I can vouch that the Guardian FSD boosters aren't going to make exploration any easier. It'll just make traveling vast distances faster which means you'll scan fewer systems and gain rank/credits more slowly then if you took a leisurely trip in a ship with limited jump range.

As far as giving up a slot ... just ditch the AFMU. It is totally unnecessary. Even if you still choose to neutron boost Frontier has scattered so many asteroid bases and planetary outposts around the galaxy that you're never too far from someplace where you can pay for repairs ... or place a call for someone to come out with repair limpets to lend you a hand.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

My opinions are kind of all over the place on this.

My first, knee-jerk, reaction is that I don't really care about the FSD Booster for exploration.
My AspX does around 60Ly and I just use FSD injections as required to get where I want to go.

It'd be nice to have an extra toy aboard my exploration ship but it's not necessary.
If anything, I'll probably just fit FSD boosters to ships as and when I to use them and notice there's a redundant slot somewhere.

More generally, though, it does irk me a bit that there are toys available for exploration ships and I can't fit them.
We've already got repair limpets as well (which require two slots to function) so it's already getting to the point where the "only" choice for exploration is the Annie - if you want ALL the toys to make your exploration ship self-sufficient.
And that's before the Q3 update, which might bring even more toys for explorers to play with.

And then there's the issue of ship loadouts in general.
It also irks me that neither of the ships with "Explorer" in the name aren't actually optimised for.... exploring.
The core of exploration equipment is a pair of C1 modules; the ADS and the DSS.
Neither ship is fitted with 2 x C1 slots.
The other thing which is almost fundamental to exploration is an SRV, which comes in C2 and C4 sizes.
The AspX doesn't have any C4 slots and neither ship has any C2 slots available once you've fitted the C1 core exploration modules into their existing C2 slots.

To be clear, I don't just mean this from an "I want more slots" POV.

It makes no sense from an in-universe perspective that ships designed for exploration wouldn't be compatible with the equipment needed for that job.
It's kind of like building an ocean-going research vessel which doesn't cater for 19" rack units or standard shipping containers.

I would really, really, like to see FDev provide different variants of all sorts of ships in return for doing things for a faction - and the AspX/DBX are good examples of what I'd like to see.
Set it up so that, after delivering a heap of exploration data to a specific faction, you can do exploration missions for them and ultimately gain access to a variant of a ship which has slots optimised FOR exploration.

And then there's the issue of utility modules and hardpoints.
Most explorers probably bung a heat-sink on their ship and fit a mining laser and, perhaps, a PA in order to dump fuel (because that's still the ONLY way to actually dump fuel, eh FDev?) and there's nothing else worth fitting in util' slots or hardpoints.

If we are getting new exploration toys in Q3, I really, really, hope FDev consider making some of them util/hardpoint fitments.
Again, it's not just a case of "needing" to be able to fit more stuff.
Players like adding toys to their ships and offering people new stuff but then forcing them to ignore most of it while their hardpoints and util slots remain empty is annoying.
It also, once again, forces players into opting for an Annie for exploration instead of one of the ships DESIGNED for, y'know... exploration.

Both the AspX and DBX are repurposed combat ships. They were never designed for exploration to begin with which could be the reason for the internal layout.

 

[Bortas]

What's this 3.1 talk about? Though "temporarily removed" meant it would be back in a few days

 

[Bortas]

OP, I agree. The booster should be a utility module.

Nope, internal is fine. As a utility module it would be useless for combat ships, which need the boost more than explorers who already have 50 LY+ jump ranges.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

I really don't it get tbh, pretty much any ship can be turned into a viable exploration ship since engineers, explorers never had better choice of what ship to take. The whole Idea that only a ship that can carry everything is viable is weird as hell to me, not every ship being able to carry everything is perfectly fine and good.

Also, seriously, people always get way overdramatic when it comes to the dbx. Its not like he needs a boost to jumprange, the notion that his 50+ ly jumprange is too rubish for exploration and he needs the booster to be viable is crazy, hes fine without it. And even then you can still take it, just skip the afmu which you never need anyway if you skip neutron star boosting (never did neutron boosting and I made it around the galaxy just fine).

Also I'm really not sure the main use for the booster is exploration, seems to be more to chase around Thargoids in heavy combat fitted ships, they have much more use for such jumprange bump then exploration ship.

 

[Jaiotu]

Also I'm really not sure the main use for the booster is exploration, seems to be more to chase around Thargoids in heavy combat fitted ships, they have much more use for such jumprange bump then exploration ship.

Exactly. The booster is for quickly moving combat ships, which don't have a decent jump range, to the next system ambushed by Thargoids. You can stop at a nearby system and store the module while replacing it with a more combat-centric module. Pick it up on your way out to the next big fight. I was reading earlier where a player was complaining about having to perform 22 jumps ... that's nothing to an Explorer but to a Combateer those 22 jumps are a real kick in the pants.

 

[Vardaugas]

Also I'm really not sure the main use for the booster is exploration, seems to be more to chase around Thargoids in heavy combat fitted ships, they have much more use for such jumprange bump then exploration ship.

Not just combat ships. Adding 4ly to a T-9 is worth 4t of cargo. I think the FSD boosts do a lot more for the lower end of jump ranges than the upper.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

It will be a nice boost to the Cobra Mk4 jump range as that ship has a good amount of internals. It could make it a viable explorer.

 

[Arindor]

Never bothered with the AFMU. Exploration isn't really about jump range anyway. Not for me. As long as you have 30+ LY you can do most of the galaxy. For me it is all about patience and detail. I don't want to get anywhere fast. I have an SRV to enjoy the view.

The new FSD booster helps people who just want to get to Sag A or Colonia as quickly as possible. That is not really exploration.

Imo, jump range is very important to me for one reason and that's getting to those places one can't reach in a stock ship, especially on the outer rim.

 

[Karamon]

FSD booster will be golden for bubble moving in combat ship , just strip one not so useful outside of combat module and add 10 ly jump range to a 14 ly Corvette . Awesome trade.

 

[Stealthie]

I really don't it get tbh, pretty much any ship can be turned into a viable exploration ship since engineers, explorers never had better choice of what ship to take. The whole Idea that only a ship that can carry everything is viable is weird as hell to me, not every ship being able to carry everything is perfectly fine and good.

That doesn't really consider the unique aspects of exploration.

With pretty much any other "occupation" in ED you can simply go and try something different immediately.
A combat ship, mining ship or trade-ship doesn't need to have slots and hardpoints for every potentially useful module because you can hop back to a station and reconfigure it as often as you want.

An explorer doesn't have that luxury.

Try outfitting a combat ship or trading ship on the basis that it's the only ship you'll be able to fly for at least, say, 3 months and you won't be allowed to change any modules and you might start to get an idea of the issues facing an explorer.

The flip-side of this issue is that, once explorers do successfully prioritise the equipment they fit to their ships, anything which has been created as a tool for exploration but which doesn't get used will have been a waste of time in development.
If the dev's create, say, a geological particle scanner module, it doesn't matter what purpose it might serve.
My AspX has 7 internal slots and if I already have 7 more useful modules to put in those slots, I'm simply not going to use a geological particle scanner. Ever.

The only way I'm going to be able to use all the things that the dev's make the effort to create is if my ship has enough slots so I can fit them.

 

[dognosh]

So I like the concept of the Guardian FSD Boosters. I even like that they add a flat amount of light years rather than a percentage of optimal mass, this helps to prevent "jump range creep" of the long range ships outreaching the less capable ships from the perspective of the overall fleet.

However, the way the Guardian FSD Boosters are being implemented, as five internal modules ranging in sizes from class 1 to class 5 (in increments of 2ly range each) leaves much to be desired in my opinion. This design is serving to benefit large ships much more than the small and medium ships simply due to number and size of internals versus the number of module types now in the game. For example, combat players who fly ships like the Vulture, FDL, Viper, DBS, or Chieftain will be hard pressed to fit one of these into their ships seeing as they all only have 4 or 5 internals to work with.

Now lets talk about deep space explorers. Most explorers currently fly with six modules installed in their ships:

• ADS - Used to scan with.
• DSS - Earns extra credits and reveals materials present on planets.
• SRV - Used to drive on planets and collect materials.
• Shield - Saves hull when landing on planets, also can save the ship when interdicted.
• AFMU - Needed for neutron jumping or just to fix the ship due to mishaps, especially canopy repairs.
• Fuel scoop - Needed to refuel.

Sure some people explore with less than this but they give up an aspect of exploration or safety in order to do so. Fly without an SRV and you can’t collect jump mats or drive on planets. Forego the AFMU and you can’t use neutron jumps nor repair module damage. Don’t take a shield and watch your hull gradually diminish over time due to planet landings, not to mention how you put yourself at great risk every time you approach inhabited space. The majority of explorers currently fly ships with at least six internals for these reasons. An awful lot of players explore in ships like the Anaconda and Cutter because they can also bring repair limpets and mining gear too.

The FSD Boosters will add one more internal to this mix, and if you fly a ship with less than seven internals then you will need to either ignore boosters entirely or give up one of the above six modules.

How exactly does this impact the Elite fleet with regards to ship choices for explorers? Here is a list of all ships in the game sorted first by jump range and then by number of internals:

https://i.imgur.com/NNM25XI.jpg

The ships highlighted in tan have 5 or less internals each (11 ships), the ships highlighted in orange have 6 internals (9 ships), and ships not highlighted have 7 or more internals (13 ships) and shouldn't be negatively impacted by the addition of one more module. It's no coincidence that the most popular exploration ships are in the top half of this list as they have the best jump ranges in the game, and about half of those have six internals each. Ships like the DBX, Orca, Dolphin, Courier, Keelback, Asp Scout, Viper IV, and Cobra III will all not be able to carry an FSD booster while also carrying the six modules listed above. Their options will be:

1. Ignore the new FSD booster and not bother with it.
2. Lose the SRV and give up driving on planets.
3. Drop the shields and risk hull damage from landings and getting blown up upon return.
4. Forego the AFMU and give up neutron boosts.

This scenario will greatly lessen the selection of ships explorers can choose from if they want to fly prepared and optimized for everything they can. It will only serve to further funnel explorers into Anacondas and Asp Explorers. The T6 might get more popular due to the FSD boosters, and now that the T7 had its range improved it also might start getting flown more, but a lot of popular small and medium exploration ships are going to be hurt by a lack of internal space.

Personally, and this is just my opinion, but I feel like these boosters should be utility modules instead of internal modules. For a few reasons:

1. All five sizes are exactly 1.3 tons in mass each, so it seems odd that they increase in size and capability but not mass.
2. Ships for all roles could much more easily spare one utility slot than one internal due to how many modules already crowd the game.
3. Making the best range booster a class 5 slot is only serving to make the larger ships even better than the smaller ships, and I feel like it should be the opposite, meaning I wish the boosters performed better for the smaller ships and less for the larger ones who already have a plethora of positives in their favor. I think new features like these should strengthen ship diversity rather than further funnel everyone into the large expensive "end game" ships.

In short, I love the idea, but do not care for the execution, as it's only serving to limit player choice with regards to ship selection. I wish these boosters were just utility modules instead.

1. +1 as usual for a useful thread(as always mengy )
2. I never use the AFMU, and I have been to Beagle point, so GB will have a place in my ship.
3. GB not needed,but a bonus for exploration. However ,as others have said, it is a superb addition for "Bubble taxis" & combat ships.
4. Off topic : Conda hull being 2/3rds lighter than the other big ships is a crime, but I do agree with "Hands off the Conda FD"
5. Finally,and most importantly : Totally agree, GB should go in to a utility slot !

 

[gooddoc]

Can't argue with your post cmdr Mengy you've hit the nail on the head.

I explore nearly all the time, when 3.0 hit I went to check out the Chieftain. I took one look at the modules info on the shipyard tab & said "...no way I'm buying that, it's hardly any modules!...". I left & did some more exploring.

Now FD 'give' us explorer's something from the Guardians for our ships & we have to take something away before we can fit the damn thing! - & that's after we've finally gained enough pewpew stuff to get it.

I'm glad I always let the dust settle a bit before doing 'new stuff' that's introduced. It gives the opportunity of all the other eager cmdr's to test out the newies, so I can decide if a new thing is worth even trying to obtain.

My Exploration ships are set up to my style of game play. All my internal modules are fully utilized to that style. Am I going to forsake any one of my current modules to include this Guardian module & if so which one?
The simple answer is NO. I won't even consider going to get the stuff for it. The 10LY max gain isn't worth it.

 

[the source 0179]

Having flown wiped one of my accounts to fly the loaner Sidewinder to Sagittarius A* and then to Shinrarta Dhezra (that trip on the limited jump range is enough to earn you Elite in Exploration) I can vouch that the Guardian FSD boosters aren't going to make exploration any easier. It'll just make traveling vast distances faster which means you'll scan fewer systems and gain rank/credits more slowly then if you took a leisurely trip in a ship with limited jump range.

As far as giving up a slot ... just ditch the AFMU. It is totally unnecessary. Even if you still choose to neutron boost Frontier has scattered so many asteroid bases and planetary outposts around the galaxy that you're never too far from someplace where you can pay for repairs ... or place a call for someone to come out with repair limpets to lend you a hand.

Yeah these days with engineering flying a fully engineered sidewinder to sag A is not that a big feat with 30+ly jumps. In the early days my asp x that i did sagA in only had 32ly jump by memory before engineers. Or are you saying you did it in a stock e rated non engineered sidewinder? Cause that would be a very long trip.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

That doesn't really consider the unique aspects of exploration.

With pretty much any other "occupation" in ED you can simply go and try something different immediately.
A combat ship, mining ship or trade-ship doesn't need to have slots and hardpoints for every potentially useful module because you can hop back to a station and reconfigure it as often as you want.

An explorer doesn't have that luxury.

Try outfitting a combat ship or trading ship on the basis that it's the only ship you'll be able to fly for at least, say, 3 months and you won't be allowed to change any modules and you might start to get an idea of the issues facing an explorer.

The flip-side of this issue is that, once explorers do successfully prioritise the equipment they fit to their ships, anything which has been created as a tool for exploration but which doesn't get used will have been a waste of time in development.
If the dev's create, say, a geological particle scanner module, it doesn't matter what purpose it might serve.
My AspX has 7 internal slots and if I already have 7 more useful modules to put in those slots, I'm simply not going to use a geological particle scanner. Ever.

The only way I'm going to be able to use all the things that the dev's make the effort to create is if my ship has enough slots so I can fit them.

Not sure I quite understand what you mean, I done a lot of exploring over the Years and never was out there suddenly thinking I could need a weapon, cargorack or whatever. What I need is always very obvious before I go out.

And just because you go out exploring without afmu or fsd booster doesn't mean its a usless module nobody uses and creating it was a wasted effort, I for example have no use for afmus and yet plenty other people have.



The Main problem here seems to be people trying to fit there narrow definition of whats improtant for them when it comes to exploration onto exploration in general. The game only increases the viabilty of other ships for exploration with the introduction of things like fsd booster, it doesn't decrease the viablitly of any ship.
Not trying to blame anybody for "playing wrong" or whatever, perfectly fine to have specific wants from a exploration ship. I have very specific ones myself these days making the courier pretty much the only go to exploration ship for me (not a complain, I love the courier and that there exists a ship that can give me what I want) but a lot of people need to exepct that the game does offer a wide variety of exploration ships even if many of those do not fit someones specific personal wants and needs.
Your way of doing exploration isn't the only "true" way to explore.

 

[John Xenir]

Oh man, yet another balancing mess.

Give better boost to larger ships - people complain smaller ships are left behind.
Give better boost to smaller ships - people complain there isn't enough reason to get a big ship.

Can we collectively shut up and decide once and for all which it is we want?
Cause I think I know why Frontier are engaging less and less with their community as time passes.

 

[gooddoc]

It's a question of personal choice.

Does this booster module benefit MY ship/ships? My answer with the current set up & installation is NO!

Whether it's a waste of time/bad design/poorly thought out/etc. That's only for FD to decide when/if they can analyse the data on this module usage by cmdr's.

 

[Siranui]

I think the entire premise of the thread is faulty.

The definition of 'explorer' is not 'big jump range'.

 

[drakhyr]

If the FSD booster is changed to a utility slot rather than an internal module, that is effectively a substantial buff. To quote another commander who has already made this point well in another thread:

If it was a utility then it becomes a no-brainer and everybody uses it.

One of the good things about the current system is that outfitting requires players to make trade-offs.

You may as well just ask for a 10LY range increase for free, and not bother with the utility at all.