If someone from Fdev streams themselves unlocking all the Guardian tech. I will eat my eye patch.

[Sir_Robin]

The thing with this particular game element is that, unlike a lot of other repetitive mechanics (games are made of those, that's not the problem) this one simply cannot reasonably be done "here and there" over time "as you just play"

Gaining X amount of bounties, this will just happen (unlocks an engineer) because things interdict you, try to pirate you, or missions send you to fight things, or, you simply choose to head into a ring while doing your normal thing.

Your also going to progress through the elite rankings, and the navy ranks, just by playing. Take a mission here and there, you'll gain a bit of both over time.

Gaining credits just happens.

And... Most (lots, some, choose your word) materials just end up being around, and you can just grab them (there are some notable exceptions, but this is generally true)

These guardian ruins, are unique, specifically placed, interactions.

They are also -way- outside of the "normal" play area, where most things to do exist.

This means, you literally have to go specifically to these things, which implies there is a reason to do so.

You aren't going to "happen upon" these places, which are the one and only source of materials to unlock certain modules. During the course of "normal" play.

So, once you make the decision to go and get these materials, you have gone to get them.

You can't just say "I'm not too bothered about how long this takes to get, I'll just let it happen naturally"

That doesn't work here at all.

This is the problem.
This is why this isn't "people wanting everything now"
Or people "whining about grind they could just not do"

It's a poorly implemented method of gaining special items in the game.

Most "grinds" I've seen complaints about havent been massive grinds to me as have incorporated as part of thethe game.

Haven't done the guardian weapon mat gathering yet... but am nervous when I read rinse and repeat a dozen+ times... as per quote I dont have to eat up all the "grind" in one contiguous whole for other game progression mechanics.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Most "grinds" I've seen complaints about havent been massive grinds to me as have incorporated as part of thethe game.

Haven't done the guardian weapon mat gathering yet... but am nervous when I read rinse and repeat a dozen+ times... as per quote I dont have to eat up all the "grind" in one contiguous whole for other game progression mechanics.

Agreed. I have no issues with other parts of the game and don't find any if it a grind. While I haven't actually tried it, I can see what's involved and it doesn't look good.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

No word from on high yet, I take it?

I doubt that even if we get a positive response, the event will be tightly scripted.

 

[Falcon_D]

If anyone has seen the topic can they bring it back please?

Last seen hurtling out the window,

I would like to know what the latest contribution to the charity is?
Also, which charity we are contributing to.

 

[Jukelo]

Hi Stigbob
Yep, FD are careful about where/what they post, and most likely for the reasons as you point out.
But the silence on this issue can only mean that this mechanic is working exactly as intended - which appears to contradict FD's comments on our time being valuable.
I, for one would like to hear FD reconcile this contradiction.

There's no contradiction because "the player's time is valuable" doesn't mean anything. When a company says it it's just PR speak with no substance. It doesn't engage their responsibility in any way since everybody will value their time differently and they obviously can't please everyone. You don't like the amount of grind involved in a task? Frontier can certainly point to others who enjoy it and say "see, we value their time".

The thing with this particular game element is that, unlike a lot of other repetitive mechanics (games are made of those, that's not the problem) this one simply cannot reasonably be done "here and there" over time "as you just play"

[...]

That doesn't work here at all.

This is the problem.
This is why this isn't "people wanting everything now"
Or people "whining about grind they could just not do"

It's a poorly implemented method of gaining special items in the game.

I like that it took more than eight hundred posts for somebody to offer the one valid piece of criticism of the Guardian tech thing that wasn't just an opinion about the amount of repetition needed.
This is why Frontier went back on the commodity requirements for Engineers as it broke the flow of normal gameplay, and the same is true here.

 

[Enderby]

There's no contradiction because "the player's time is valuable" doesn't mean anything. When a company says it it's just PR speak with no substance. It doesn't engage their responsibility in any way since everybody will value their time differently and they obviously can't please everyone. You don't like the amount of grind involved in a task? Frontier can certainly point to others who enjoy it and say "see, we value their time".



I like that it took more than eight hundred posts for somebody to offer the one valid piece of criticism of the Guardian tech thing that wasn't just an opinion about the amount of repetition needed.
This is why Frontier went back on the commodity requirements for Engineers as it broke the flow of normal gameplay, and the same is true here.

Huh?

Nah. It's just boring and lacking, so very, very obviously, in any creative inspiration.

 

[El_Hefe]

I like that it took more than eight hundred posts for somebody to offer the one valid piece of criticism of the Guardian tech thing that wasn't just an opinion about the amount of repetition needed.
This is why Frontier went back on the commodity requirements for Engineers as it broke the flow of normal gameplay, and the same is true here.

That idea has been mentioned many times in the thread.

Usually in response to the same posters that have been saying "its fine,dont grind it,do it naturally"

Problem is people dont bother reading the threads....

 

[Stigbob]

That idea has been mentioned many times in the thread.

Usually in response to the same posters that have been saying "its fine,dont grind it,do it naturally"

Problem is people dont bother reading the threads....

I don't think anyone's said do it "naturally", I suggested not trying to unlock all eighteen at once or at all. Totally different concept.

 

[Drelthar]

I don't think anyone's said do it "naturally", I suggested not trying to unlock all eighteen at once or at all. Totally different concept.

I would be interested in your suggestion of what you feel the intended flow of this gameplay is.

I can't see what the goal is.

I'm not joking or being weird, I'm serious, what is your idea of the intended flow of this gameplay loop?

 

[Enderby]

I think that it's cynically lazy game-design.

(I use the term 'game-design' in its loosest sense, clearly).

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I think that it's cynically lazy game-design.

Good for you.

 

[Enderby]

Good for you.

Anyone would, I imagine.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

They probably won't touch anything with dev bashing in it, and if they ever did they'd probably regret it and not do it again. This may already have happened.

That would be an interesting approach. Like an ostrich sticking the head into the sand, hoping the issue to magically disappear.

An open word is always better (and usually highly respected) than silence dragging on indefinitely. That just leads to speculation and risks to run out-of-bounds.
After all, one can't hide nor run from reality. Reality being ignored has the tendency to always come back around to bite... and it's not like this hasn't happened around here alot already

 

[Stigbob]

I would be interested in your suggestion of what you feel the intended flow of this gameplay is.

I can't see what the goal is.

I'm not joking or being weird, I'm serious, what is your idea of the intended flow of this gameplay loop?

Same as buying an anaconda. If you want the thing go get the thing if you think it's worth the effort you'll have to put in first. If you don't really want or have a use for the thing consider not doing it at all. If you ever consider getting all the things at once in a way you don't enjoy with no plan or use beyond simply wanting them that's your own fault and problem.

Basically do what you want, if that involves lots of unnecessary grind I won't be sympathetic.

The first few times I went to guardian sites it was as a tourist, I just had a look around.

 

[Stigbob]

That would be an interesting approach. Like an ostrich sticking the head into the sand, hoping the issue to magically disappear.


An open word is always better (and usually highly respected) than silence dragging on indefinitely. That just leads to speculation and risks to run out-of-bounds.
After all, one can't hide nor run from reality. Reality being ignored has the tendency to always come back around to bite... and it's not like this hasn't happened around here alot already

Maybe someone went a bit NMS on them and they are just keeping the crazies at arms length.

 

[Vedmo]

I ignore the occasional stray cats around my place and they seem to die off just fine on their own.

 

[Drelthar]

Same as buying an anaconda. If you want the thing go get the thing if you think it's worth the effort you'll have to put in first. If you don't really want or have a use for the thing consider not doing it at all. If you ever consider getting all the things at once in a way you don't enjoy with no plan or use beyond simply wanting them that's your own fault and problem.

Basically do what you want, if that involves lots of unnecessary grind I won't be sympathetic.

The first few times I went to guardian sites it was as a tourist, I just had a look around.

Hum.

Well. I would suggest you read my previous post.

Within it, I explain that, while gaining the credits for an Anaconda will just happen as you play the game, the same cannot be said for the Guardians weapon unlocks.

I feel like this a fairly poor argument here, and also, it doesn't appear to answer my question, which was:

What do you think the intended flow of this game loop is.

Example:

Start with Sidewinder - Take mission - Gain credits - Buy new weapon - Kill pirate - Gain bounty - interact with many other elements of the game - gather more bounties along the way - Unlock Todd the blaster engineer - upgrade multicannons.


Guardians is so far as I can see:

Learn of guardian sites from galnet - Learn of tech brokers from stations - Go to guardian sites - Gain weapon/module blueprint fragment - repeat without any other gameplay due to distance and unique interaction - unlock module(s)

That's assuming you can handle just doing the same thing over and over.

Unless you think the logical means of doing this, is to run the guardian site once, then... go back to the bubble, and continute game play for a while, then, jump ALL the way back to a guardian site, and run it again (I'm not sure what the in character reason for this might be) then go back to the bubble......etc.

Is that, what you propose?

 

[Darty]

Most "grinds" I've seen complaints about havent been massive grinds to me as have incorporated as part of thethe game.

Haven't done the guardian weapon mat gathering yet... but am nervous when I read rinse and repeat a dozen+ times... as per quote I dont have to eat up all the "grind" in one contiguous whole for other game progression mechanics.

It depends on how you play the game, and that really is the route of the problem. Of the 4 selling points listed on elitedangerous.com is "Play your own way: experience infinite freedom." You would think that a game that prides itself on "infinite freedom" would at least try to make content as accessible as possible to as many different play styles as possible. The notion that I should have to conform and confine my play style very strictly around tons of timesinks and grindwalls is utterly ridiculous and should be laughed off this forum. Maybe if they advertised this game with "Test yourself to the extreme: do you have what it takes so survive in the cutthroat galaxy of Elite dangerous" or something of the like, that notion MIGHT have a leg to stand on. But frontier sells this game very clearly as a "blaze your own trail" sort of game, so we have every right to complain when the game doesn't measure up.

 

[Skeloton]

I ignore the occasional stray cats around my place and they seem to die off just fine on their own.

Somehow I think this thread is here to stay.

Would rather a "challenge" that took more than just my time to complete. As it stands, with guardians and everything else, you will get everything eventually.

 

[Susanna]

Hum.

Well. I would suggest you read my previous post.

Within it, I explain that, while gaining the credits for an Anaconda will just happen as you play the game, the same cannot be said for the Guardians weapon unlocks.

I feel like this a fairly poor argument here, and also, it doesn't appear to answer my question, which was:

What do you think the intended flow of this game loop is.

Example:

Start with Sidewinder - Take mission - Gain credits - Buy new weapon - Kill pirate - Gain bounty - interact with many other elements of the game - gather more bounties along the way - Unlock Todd the blaster engineer - upgrade multicannons.


Guardians is so far as I can see:

Learn of guardian sites from galnet - Learn of tech brokers from stations - Go to guardian sites - Gain weapon/module blueprint fragment - repeat without any other gameplay due to distance and unique interaction - unlock module(s)

That's assuming you can handle just doing the same thing over and over.

Unless you think the logical means of doing this, is to run the guardian site once, then... go back to the bubble, and continute game play for a while, then, jump ALL the way back to a guardian site, and run it again (I'm not sure what the in character reason for this might be) then go back to the bubble......etc.

Is that, what you propose?

Somehow I think this thread is here to stay.

Would rather a "challenge" that took more than just my time to complete. As it stands, with guardians and everything else, you will get everything eventually.

It seems to me that the logic behind the Guardian modules, at least for the ship modules, is that you don't need to grind out materials for G5 mods on standard ones. Once you have ground out the module unlock, your good to go. For all future ships you buy, you can buy the module and fit, then just fly away a happy bunny.

As an alternative to engineering I suppose it's one answer.

If you want you can do a bit then come back again later and do some more.