PvP PvP Meta of the Month Club

[jasonbarron]

I reinforced the drives on my FAS so I can preserve my guns. I call it asstanking.

I sometimes run a high cap seeker on my iEagle so I can challenge federal mediums to a 1v1, shoot off all their guns, and pretend I'm good.

I'm not calling you out or anything, but that last line really struck a cord with me.

I've had it with "space bushido." I've heard so many lectures on everything from hiwaking being dishonorable to don't use premium to never call the cops and then had the same people shamelessly wing gank me 3/4v1 to the tune of hundreds of millions of credits, or shoot me to pieces with their own seekers, or using premium on the sly, etc etc, that I've developed a new code: anything goes. In anything other than agreed upon duels between peers and friends, the gloves are coming off. Seekers, Packhounds, premium ammo on redial, system set to hiwake if I'm losing, crimes on the second a second CMDR drops into the instance, bare knuckle jungle rules. As a player who rarely has a wing and who has been the subject of hundreds of wing gank attempts, I'm leaving the space bushido at the door from now on. All I care about now is winning, or surviving.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Amen, brother Barron.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

I'm not calling you out or anything, but that last line really struck a cord with me.

I've had it with "space bushido." I've heard so many lectures on everything from hiwaking being dishonorable to don't use premium to never call the cops and then had the same people shamelessly wing gank me 3/4v1 to the tune of hundreds of millions of credits, or shoot me to pieces with their own seekers, or using premium on the sly, etc etc, that I've developed a new code: anything goes. In anything other than agreed upon duels between peers and friends, the gloves are coming off. Seekers, Packhounds, premium ammo on redial, system set to hiwake if I'm losing, crimes on the second a second CMDR drops into the instance, bare knuckle jungle rules. As a player who rarely has a wing and who has been the subject of hundreds of wing gank attempts, I'm leaving the space bushido at the door from now on. All I care about now is winning, or surviving.

Welcome to the 13th legion. All bow to our lord commander the healer.

 

[jasonbarron]

Welcome to the 13th legion. All bow to our lord commander the healer.

Kind of hard to heal myself by myself

 

[Han_Zen]

Kind of hard to heal myself by myself

Put a healing beam on your SLF and set it to target mothership. How hard is that.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Even then, there are ways to deal with healers.

 

[Truesilver]

I've had it with "space bushido." I've heard so many lectures on everything from hiwaking being dishonorable to don't use premium to never call the cops and then had the same people shamelessly wing gank me 3/4v1 to the tune of hundreds of millions of credits, or shoot me to pieces with their own seekers, or using premium on the sly, etc etc, that I've developed a new code: anything goes. In anything other than agreed upon duels between peers and friends, the gloves are coming off. Seekers, Packhounds, premium ammo on redial, system set to hiwake if I'm losing, crimes on the second a second CMDR drops into the instance, bare knuckle jungle rules. As a player who rarely has a wing and who has been the subject of hundreds of wing gank attempts, I'm leaving the space bushido at the door from now on. All I care about now is winning, or surviving.

The space bushido has got to the point of being dogma that makes no sense. Last night's example:

At the CG I was in my FdL. It was a good night because I managed to get two duels against mediums (one aChief, one FdL). The aChief guy was really good and fought to splosion and it was a Powerplay thing not agreed so organic and especially good.

However, during the course of the evening I was interdicted without comms by a 'name' in a Cutter. We were already on each other's friends lists. I was full kinetic in my FdL, hence didn't even bother deploying hardpoints, just practised my evasion. I was expecting him to leave after 20 mins without downing my shield but actually he was a jaw-droppingly good shot, even better than I had expected, with focused PA's and his other fixed weapons, even in Cutter, so after 10 minutes my shield dropped and I then stuck around hull only until after 12 mins, still without deploying hardpoints, still having 95%+ of the fight inside 3 km, I high waked. Again, all good.

I then sent a direct message complementing his plasma aim and received a short embittered sarcastic response about the fact that I high waked. Nothing more.

I mean ... waiting for 12 minutes isn't enough? I have to let someone shoot at me for 12 minutes and then low wake? If I'd known that I'd have charged up my low wake FSD before the 12 mins was up.

Judas H. PvP has started to take its player-invented bushido seriously to the point that even the reasons for the rules are being forgotten.

I agree with Jason.

 

[Globusdiablo]

...Judas H. PvP has started to take its player-invented bushido seriously to the point that even the reasons for the rules are being forgotten...

PvP rule #1: There are no rules.
PvP rule #2: Conflict begets toxicity.
PvP rule #3: Disappointment with either first or second rule is futile.

 

[dfgqsb]

It is terrible balance. I have tried to get it changed and so far failed.

Thanks for trying.

FD hates hull tanks, if we just look at what we have now:

+ Seekers and packhounds can disable all the externals easily, very easy to use. Current counters are either very ineffective or hard to use.
+ Corrosive effect for 25%(maybe not the exact number) more damage, no counter to that.
+ Scramble effect for random malfunction, unreliable but no counter to that.
+ Internal module damage, can be countered at a reasonable cost.
+ Risk of losing canopy, AFMU is helpful in some cases at the cost of giving up a optional slot.
+ New enzyme missiles but it is not effective.

Seems FD is trying to tell us to run when shield is dropped.

 

[Truesilver]

Thanks for trying.

FD hates hull tanks, if we just look at what we have now:

+ Seekers and packhounds can disable all the externals easily, very easy to use. Current counters are either very ineffective or hard to use.
+ Corrosive effect for 25%(maybe not the exact number) more damage, no counter to that.
+ Scramble effect for random malfunction, unreliable but no counter to that.
+ Internal module damage, can be countered at a reasonable cost.
+ Risk of losing canopy, AFMU is helpful in some cases at the cost of giving up a optional slot.
+ New enzyme missiles but it is not effective.

Seems FD is trying to tell us to run when shield is dropped.

Yep. And we could add to the above:

+ Silent running heat generation increased massively in 2.1
+ 'Propagation of hostility' introduced in 2.2 so that when a silent runner fires on one wing member, becomes automatically targetable (including subsystems) by entire enemy wing
+ Penetrator dumbfires currently bugged but when fixed will become another hard counter (difficult to hit ... but won't need many hits ...)
+ Corrosive not only adds 25% to all damage sources but also increases APV of all weapon hits by +20 (meaning that personally, I find that corrosive is all I need)
+ Emissive supposed nerf in 2.2 actually irrelevant, hull tank still lit up like Xmas Tree throughout

And doubtless we could go on...

 

[jasonbarron]

The space bushido has got to the point of being dogma that makes no sense. Last night's example:

At the CG I was in my FdL. It was a good night because I managed to get two duels against mediums (one aChief, one FdL). The aChief guy was really good and fought to splosion and it was a Powerplay thing not agreed so organic and especially good.

However, during the course of the evening I was interdicted without comms by a 'name' in a Cutter. We were already on each other's friends lists. I was full kinetic in my FdL, hence didn't even bother deploying hardpoints, just practised my evasion. I was expecting him to leave after 20 mins without downing my shield but actually he was a jaw-droppingly good shot, even better than I had expected, with focused PA's and his other fixed weapons, even in Cutter, so after 10 minutes my shield dropped and I then stuck around hull only until after 12 mins, still without deploying hardpoints, still having 95%+ of the fight inside 3 km, I high waked. Again, all good.

I then sent a direct message complementing his plasma aim and received a short embittered sarcastic response about the fact that I high waked. Nothing more.

I mean ... waiting for 12 minutes isn't enough? I have to let someone shoot at me for 12 minutes and then low wake? If I'd known that I'd have charged up my low wake FSD before the 12 mins was up.

Judas H. PvP has started to take its player-invented bushido seriously to the point that even the reasons for the rules are being forgotten.

I agree with Jason.

Yeah, that's pretty irritating. Personally, I'm fed up with the hypocrisy. Yesterday at the CG (this was when you messaged me looking to arrange a duel), I was repeatedly pulled by a pair of chieftains, and once they even had a cutter with them. This happened around 3-4 times, until my posse showed up to lend a hand. At which point we out numbered them...and the complaining on comms began. I even solo dropped into one of their wakes and proceeded to engage them (they were wanted with a large bounty and also power play rivals) and got chewed out for interrupting their activities.

No big deal, a lot more fun than negativity was had overall, but it was still enough to put my teeth on edge.

How dare you use seekers & premium Jasonbarron, while I can club noobs all day long in my g5 death mobile and still claim righteous moral superiority! It's perfectly alright for me to constantly gang up on you with superior numbers, but you sir are a villain for doing that to me! Etc etc

Now I have a new code

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

We had that happen in our home system couple weeks ago. Got friend sniped with a 4 v 2. We fought then escaped. Escalated into a 6 v 4 across multiple systems.

Feeling like when they realized we weren’t gonna play nice the comma chatter started. Fun, but soured somewhat by ‘space bushido.’

My view? Shut up and fight!

 

[jasonbarron]

We had that happen in our home system couple weeks ago. Got friend sniped with a 4 v 2. We fought then escaped. Escalated into a 6 v 4 across multiple systems.

Feeling like when they realized we weren’t gonna play nice the comma chatter started. Fun, but soured somewhat by ‘space bushido.’

My view? Shut up and fight!

That's all I'm saying. I never complain about how others fight, now stf-u and return the favor.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

That's all I'm saying. I never complain about how others fight, now stf-u and return the favor.

If you 1 v 1 with hounds vs a hull tank I will call you a scrub and if you win, its not you that won but the packhounds.
If you loose despite being a missile scrub you will end up like this guy:

https://youtu.be/iHwcMuzHpPU

If its a gank /outnumbered/ kos kind of fight than by all means use whatever you want.

 

[jasonbarron]

If you 1 v 1 with hounds vs a hull tank I will call you a scrub and if you win, its not you that won but the packhounds.
If you loose despite being a missile scrub you will end up like this guy:

https://youtu.be/iHwcMuzHpPU

If its a gank /outnumbered/ kos kind of fight than by all means use whatever you want.

Algomatic, your entire Count Dracula forum presence has been predicated on destroying noobs, seals and various unprepared PvErs through the use of massively superior firepower. Your feeble attempt to hold on to some kind of honor code makes me smile.

Depending on what ship I happen to be in whenever I do finally cross paths with you, if I happen to have seekers equipped you can count on me gleefully spamming you with them, probably while my huge mobile hardpoint chases you around assuring that your shield regen is nil

Edit: given that we're not particularly friends, either, you can count on Premium ammo, too!

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

Aside from some pre-fix heat weapons that were hella broken, I can't say I've really been against using any weapons in spontaneous PvP.

That said, I believe having heal beams in your wing immediately disqualifies you from any meaningful trash talk after a victory.

I know some people have issues with reverb torps, but those have enough drawbacks to be balanced imo.

Seekers are only useful for shields down work, so if you're flying a hull tank-- sucks to suck. I've been on both ends of it, being spammed with hounds, or dumping seekers into an FAS like no tomorrow. You're losing quite a bit of damage against anything with decent shields, but that's one of the drawbacks.

I've dumped on reverb mines before, but only because it's hard to be effective with them against competent pilots. Lateral thrust really ruins any plans with those. Kind of a novelty weapon, really. Fun to see in combat, though.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

Algomatic, you're entire Count Dracula forum presence has been predicated on destroying noobs, seals and various unprepared PvErs through the use of massively superior firepower. Your feeble attempt to hold on to some kind of honor code makes me smile.

Depending on what ship I happen to be in whenever I do finally cross paths with you, if I happen to have seekers equipped you can count on me gleefully spamming you with them, probably while my huge mobile hardpoint chases you around assuring that your shield regen is nil

Edit: given that we're not particularly friends, either, you can count on Premium ammo, too!

Did you apply to the 13th legion yet, or better to 12.5th, they are waiting for you.

 

[jasonbarron]

Did you apply to the 13th legion yet, or better to 12.5th, they are waiting for you.

Note to self: self nerf whenever the possibility of fighting Algomatic arrises.

 

[Truesilver]

That said, I believe having heal beams in your wing immediately disqualifies you from any meaningful trash talk after a victory.

This ^^ really is the point and, I think, a wider one going to how PvP vids and threads are presented.

If a guy, or a wing, wins using a clear build advantage there may be many valid reasons to post the vid (eg wider context, revenge, system defence, bounty hunting, highlighting a new tactic, tutorial, humour, calling for a nerf of one's own build, etc) but just posting it with a call-out title, trying to make the defeated look bad, is silly and usually backfires on the poster.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Did you apply to the 13th legion yet, or better to 12.5th, they are waiting for you.

Alternative proposal: you mod up some shielded dual ECMs and get good with ‘em.